A/C Condenser question

[MoparLeo]

Both of these posts are absolutely true.
You never want to buy the same thing twice. A/C is mandatory if you don't have vents, which the a/c models don't have for ventilation.
Condensor airflow is the name of the game and another thing not always considered is the operating temperature of the engine/radiator. There is heat transfer due to the proximity of the factory radiator and condensor.
R12 was more efficient but as has been said, genuine R12 Freon is very expensive if you can find it. Though discontinued decades ago, it was not banned worldwide and Dupont was the original manufacturer. They produced thousands and maybe millions of pounds of the refrigerant and there are still qwuantities that show up.[quote author=bdschnei link=msg=333188 date=173197789
R134 isn't more efficient than R12. If anything it's a little less efficient since it runs at slightly higher pressures when the system is charged correctly. The change from R12 to R134 was made in the 80's strictly due to government environmental mandates.

You mentioned you have R12. Unless you're sure of it's origin be careful that it's really what it claims to be. Since R12 was outlawed 30 years ago, most of what you'll find on the "market" is counterfeit. I've heard horror stories of explosive gasses being used in these cocktails. True R12, if you can still find it, is probably going for hundreds of dollars a pound... You'll likely have a hard time finding a reputable AC shop that will go anywhere near that stuff. Too high a risk of contamination. So if you want to use your own R12 you'll need your own AC charging equipment including a vacuum pump to evacuate the system prior to charging.

Not trying to scare you, just pointing out the risks...

My advise would be all new AC components and charge with R134.  (Although even R134 is currently being mandated out of existence)
That way you can safely charge the system and not have to worry about what happens down the road if you have problems.
[/quote]

I am certain of my R12.  It was all purchased in the '80s and early '90s before the draconian restrictions came into play, or the license to purchase requirement.  I'm also stocking up on R134A for the newer cars; I'm not interested in dealing with the exorbitant cost of their new miracle replacement stuff or paying stupid prices for R134A after they forbid manufacture.

I read plenty about R134A as a replacement in an R12 systems (fully flushed and cleaned and new proper o-rings, and ideally an expansion valve with the correct orifice size) through the years; it can work because the mineral oil used with R12 has penetrated the inner layers of the rubber hose sections and provided much of the capability of barrier hose.  But you have to get all of the free mineral oil out of the system, and the R134a will still very slowly leak out over extended time.  Its not real barrier hose...

Also you need to charge by weight, the sight glass can't be used because getting to the point there is no bubble or foaming means you are overcharged with R134A.  In an R12 designed system in general R134a won't provide as much delta-T from ambient to cooled as the original R12.  The recommended change to help with that is a more efficient condenser (serpentine or parallel flow); with that performance can match or slightly exceed that with R12, depending on the parts and efficiencies.

Since I need to replace or rebuild the RV2 compressor, and those have gotten quite expensive, its possible I may move to a Sanden type; if that happens then of course there will be new hoses, so may as well go to R134a with a parallel flow condenser (as long as they actually fit like they claim).  RV2s work with R134a but they're not ideal.  But for now the plan is still to go original and R12 and so the questions about my condenser's usability after considerable fin straightening."


A great idea is to upgrade to the Sanden compressor. Much more effivcient and less HP draw when running.
Complete kits with mounting brackets are available.

[Duodec]

My 30 pound bottle of R12 was purchased at Sams Club in the '90s.  The 12 ounce cans I have were also purchased at normal auto parts stores before the bans went into effect.  They are real.

The 12 ounce cans of R134A I'm stocking up on are being purchased at legit stores when on sale; mostly in the $6-7 range per can.  I never bought it before until I heard about how the wonderful world saving R134A that replaced the terrible evil R12 was now also terrible and evil and was going to be replaced by the wonderful R-1234yf that costs a ton more and is also somewhat flammable, like some of the R12 substitutes were early on.

I don't need to make a decision on refrigerant until the car is going back together.  I'll have both available.  I'll just need the right expansion valve (and I have a new R12 one on the shelf).  A parallel flow condenser will work with either, and will push the R134a option up to a very good level of efficiency.

Almost the same with the compressor; I'm leaning towards a Sanden either way but if R134a is the decision then so is a Sanden with the new custom barrier hoses.   If R12 then the RV2 is still an option but the Sanden will work better.   This is not a 100% restoration any more (and since its a 318 base model, thats ok!)

So do you have a preferred vendor for the condenser, and maybe the compressor and brackets?   I'm not going with a full kit; the A/C box, evaporator, etc are staying OEM.

Thanks!
 

[JH27N0B]

My convertibles AC system was restored and reinstalled around 7 or 8 years back.  The previous owner didn't bother with the AC when he restored the car 35+ years ago, but fortunately gave me a box full of all the old grungy AC parts when I bought the car from him in '97.
I had a Mopar shop working on refurbishing my engine and I decided that was an optimum time to finally restore the AC (actually the entire HVAC as my cars heater didn't even work!)
We sent the parts out to a place in Florida and I think it was Classic Auto Air.
I can search for my receipts to confirm, if that helps.  I'm pretty sure I heard last year that they stopped restoring vintage AC parts and now only sell AC systems to install on vintage cars.  If that's correct, that sucks, I'm a purest!
The shop had a stash of R12 and the original plan was he wanted to use it in my car.  We ended up using R134 though, my recollection was that when we got the restored compressor back from Classic Auto Air, it was set up for R134, so that settled what refrigerant would be used!
I have to admit I don't use the AC much when driving my car, though I do try to use it from time to time to keep the system going.  It's fun on hot days cruising along top down, then stop at a traffic light and feel that cold air blasting out the vents at me!
It still works fine, at least as of last summer it did.  And the air coming out the vents feels colder than the air coming out the vents in either my 2014 Dart or my 2021 Ram when I use the AC in either of them!  At least for me, R134 worked fine in a restored vintage AC system.

[Duodec]

Yep, Original Air had all the individual components apparently folded into Classic Auto Air, and at least initially their website also indicated the end of restoration services.

I have one hose and the compressor that need to be rebuilt; the other hose (recently acquired) is in excellent condition.  And if I go with a Sanden, then no rebuilds at all since the hoses will be new custom pieces though I suppose the current ones could be modified (rebuilt) with new compressor-end pieces.  TBD.  Right now I'm going to get a condenser while I can.

[EV2RTSE]

I would suggest contacting Bouchillon if you decide to go the Sanden route-
https://www.bouchillonperformance.com/products-air-conditioning

Can you save me some R12 please?