72 cuda, no signal or brake lights

[cudastu]

1972 Cuda with a light problem!

With key on or off I have power at Red terminal. No brake lights.

Key on, left or right signal selected, no power to turn signal cam, no signal lights, no brake lights.

With 4x flashers on I have power to red, green, brown, and top white terminals. No power at bottom white terminal.

Front flashers work, rear flashers do not work.
Note: With 4x flashers on, left or right signal selected, the selected rear light will flash.

I have checked bulbs, sockets and grounds for rear lights and all appears to be okay.

I replaced the turn signal cam with no positive results.

Bought the color coded wiring schematic for my car in hopes of helping find my problem but it's kicking my rear.

I'm not an electrician as you have probably already guessed, but would sure appreciate help from someone who is..
Cudastu

[Plumcrazy72]

I am an electrician, for buildings though not for cars that are 14 years older than me. But if you haven't already be sure to check your flasher relays, located behind your ashtray area and steering column if i can remember correctly. One of the pros will tell you exactly your problem anytime i'm sure.

[cudastu]

Thank you for your input. I replaced both relays with 32CP MAX 6.

[Cuda Cody]

Welcome to the forum @cudastu    

Can you tell us more about the car and when the problem started?  Is the wiring stock?  What has been done to the car recently?  Paint or wiring replaced recently?  It might be a fuse or a ground?

[cudastu]

Stock wiring. Car was painted recently but brake lights worked after the paint job. Signal lights haven't worked in quite some time, brake lights quit working recently. I have replaced turn signal cam, flash relays, checked grounds for rear lights, installed new 1157 bulbs. fuse replaced.

Front flashers work, all parking and side marker lights work, headlights work.

I have power at the red lead on the flasher unit, but no power from the flasher unit to the turn signal cam as best I can tell. I'm not sure but I was told power to brake lights should come from red lead on flasher unit through turn signal cam and when turn signal is neutral, power would go straight to brakes. I'm not totally sure about this.

When I activate flashers the front lights flash, the rear lights do not flash. However, if I select either a left or right signal the rear lights will flash follow the signal selected. This problem is making my head hurt..! 

[Chryco Psycho]

Welcome to the site
Power for the brake lights is a pink wire near the fuse block , it goes to the brake light switch , & a white wire goes to the turn signal switch where it separates into 4 different color wires , 1 to each corner of the car , so the turn signal switch interupts the brake light power so it can flash  , you said you only changed the turn signal cam , my bet is the actual switch is the problem

[cudastu]

Thanks a  bunch for taking the time to consider my spark chaser problem. Found the pink wire that goes from the fuse block to the brake light switch, I have power to the switch. When I depress the brake pedal, I have power to the white wire coming off the brake light switch.

With ignition on or off, I have power to the red wire on the turn signal switch/flasher switch. I assume the signal switch and flasher switch are one in the same?

When I turn on flashers front lights flash, the rear do not. If I select either left or right signal, the appropriate rear signal light works as long as I have the flashers on. If I turn flashers off I have no signal lights front and rear, and I have no brake lights. 

With ignition on or off and flashers on,  I have power to red, top left white, green and tan wire terminals. I have no power to the white wire terminal at the bottom left of the switch. On the turn signal cam I have power to the right side wire, no power to the left. I have power to the left, or outside upper and lower contacts on the base where the turn signal cam sits, no power on right side, or inner upper and lower contacts.

Running light s work fine in the front and rear.

I assume my grounds are good for rear lights as running light work, and lights flash when I select left or right signal when flashers are on.

If I don't fix this pretty soon I may be looking for a new place to live as my wife is gonna run me off..!            

[Cuda Cody]

If things worked before and now they don't AND the car was painted, I would check the grounds.  The lights might need to have a little paint sanded off to make a good ground.  You can try grounded the lights manually to see if that makes them work. 

[cudastu]

I cleaned the grounds for the rear light sockets, and removed the ground wire in the trunk, cleaned the connector, bolt and mount surface.

The signal lights quit working before paint, and brake light worked after paint until just a few day ago.

The only parts changed were bulbs and turn signal cam. I am suspect of the cam, seems a bit flimsy to me. It's an after market cam.
   

[cudastu]

How do I ground lights manually?
Thanks

[TelisSE440]

I would check them as follows:

1) Press brake (key on or off doesn't matter for brakes). While pressing, check if you have current in red arrow wire (this comes from the brake switch). It should be OK because it doesn't relate to the problem you have , if no check the wiring and brake switch.

2) Press brake (key on or off doesn't matter for brakes). While pressing, check if you have current in green arrow wire (double stamped). This is the wire for the rear red lights (brake, turns or hazzards).

     a) If you don't have current, cut a small piece of wire and bridge the two opposite white wires (the ones with red and green arrows) if rear red lights glow when you press the brake switch then you need to replace the turn signal switch or (preferred method) cut the rivets on the small case which houses the hazard switch arm and clean any oxidation on the contacts or maybe it needs some solder if it's been "eaten through".

     b) If you have current, then check the contacts on the turn signal cam (the four ones). You could bridge directly current from the red wire and check them individually. Then clean any oxidation or use some solder if it's been "eaten through"

3) Grounding (to me at least) seems to be fine because when hazzards are on, then the turn signals work the rear lights

[cudastu]

When I press brake I have power to red wire, and white wire, without using jumper. Still no brake or signal lights. The four contacts are clean on the turn signal base plate and the turn signal cam is new. While pressing brake I have power to right side contact on turn signal cam, no power to left side when selecting left or right. Could I possibly have a bad turn signal cam? It is after market, which makes me wonder if the quality is a bit less than desired. 

Thanks for your help.

Now, to add insult to injury, when, when I turn on the parking lights, I blow the Misc fuse!

When will it end?!    

[Chryco Psycho]

4 way & turn signal flashers are separate , I still belive the whole switch is the problem

[TelisSE440]

When I press brake I have power to red wire, and white wire, without using jumper. Still no brake or signal lights. The four contacts are clean on the turn signal base plate and the turn signal cam is new. While pressing brake I have power to right side contact on turn signal cam, no power to left side when selecting left or right. Could I possibly have a bad turn signal cam? It is after market, which makes me wonder if the quality is a bit less than desired. 

Thanks for your help.

Now, to add insult to injury, when, when I turn on the parking lights, I blow the Misc fuse!

When will it end?!

If you had your ignition in off position, then you shouldn't have any power  to left side of turn signal cam.

You have current in the right red wire (connecting with the white one) of the signal cam switch, so now you have to check if the contacts on the signal cam work...

You can see the four contacts at the picture below. The two on the right are for the rear lights. The brown arrow indicates the BR wire for the passenger side and the dark green one indicates the DGN wire for the driver side. You don't have to take off the turn signal cam, just remove the whole switch, turn it upside down and bridge a wire with power on any of the two wires (better on both at the same time, just to be sure). If no red lights are on, then there is a problem in the wiring towards the rear of the car.

If it is OK, then disassemble and check the signal cam. Check the metal wire as shown in the picture with the red box, does it have current when pressing the brake? If yes, does it touch both contacts (BR and DGR) when installed? Maybe it interferes with the other wire, which is for the turn signals.

[cudastu]

Is there a test to confirm condition of the whole switch, if so can you enlighten me on the process , please?