Oil Pan Findings... Yikes

[Jim AAR]

So my rear oil pan seal was leaking, so I figured I'd put in a new oil pump at the same time, it was the original one, so I put in a high volume/high pressure one. Dropped the pan and heard a tinkle in it ohoh. There was 1 complete windage tray bolt and another of about 2/3rds of the thread, the head and washer are nowhere to be found and it won't fit through the drain and I've never had any thing come out in previous oil changes, I'd know because I always strain my used oil to check it. All I can see is a couple of Nick's on the back 2 connecting rods, tiny though. Glad I dropped the pan before the other bolt was eaten, lol.

I did find 3 other pieces, that look like they could be heli coil inserts but I'm not sure I can't think of anything else that looks it.

Any ideas? Attached a picture.

[Dakota]

They do look like pieces off helicoils but it's weird that the pieces are all the same size. They don't look like the little tab that is supposed to be snapped off after installation.

You mentioned that you check your oil carefully.  I bought a cutter that opens up the oil filter for checking for debris trapped in the filter media.  Depending on how far you want to go with the inspection, you might consider buying one.

Can't offer much other help on this. 

[Rich G.]

There might be more pieces laying in the oil pump screen also I'd bet. You might want to clean that out too.

[gzig5]

Helicoils have sort of a triangular cross section.  Those look round.  I was thinking they might be pieces of a snap ring that broke?  Maybe from a hydraulic lifter?

[jimynick]

What size is that bolt, 3/8"? The only thing I can think of those semi circular pieces being from at that size, might be a pressure relief valve spring from an oil pump? If they were lifter parts they'd be flat sectioned to fit the recess, otherwise either somebody dumped them into the engine or they were never cleaned out before. What other explanations are there? 

[Fastmark]

Well that's like finding half a worm in your apple when you are still chewing the first bite. I'd investigate further. At least pull a rod cap off and check for debris marks.

[Chryco Psycho]

First I would not use a high volume oil pump , high pressure is fine but high volume can cause a problem unless you install a larger capacity oil pan .
My first thought is maybe a snap ring that retains the wrist pin if it is flat but the picture makes it look round , if it is a snap ring you need to tear down the whole short block .

[RUNCHARGER]

It's an AAR and I assume the original engine. Take no chances, pull the engine and inspect everything. No question. It doesn't look like a helicoil in that photo.

[Jim AAR]

Here's what I have discovered to date:

Took a magnified pic of the half circles and if you put them together they form a pretty much prefect 5/16 circle, the one side and outside is arced and smooth and the inside rough flat and seems to have a ridge in it. Could it be a gasket insert? I don't know of anything else that looks like it in the bottom end of the engine, maybe i dropped them in the lifter valley somewhere when I had my intake off. Or they were stuck in the oil pickup screen and I never got them out from my rebuild and they worked there way out, I found 3 of them and I think another went through the oil pump scratched it and got stuck in the filter, just an assumption because the scratches on the impeller face are like a little tornado and round.

There is no visible damage on the cylinder walls connecting rod pins and inside piston, i'm pretty confident nothing ever went upward anywhere, there is no way it could have been sucked through the oil pick up. I'm going to take the valve Covers off for an inspection but i never had any noise coming from the top end other than a little rocker noise when its hot and it was running awesome before I took the pan off, had one of my best running set ups going before this, damn it.

Pulled off all the Connecting Rod End caps and inspected the bearings and found only expected wear and the odd scratch that you could see but not feel. I started here because there were some nicks on the bottoms of 7 & 8 & 5 & 6, so this must have been from the rear bolt that came loose which is probably the one that sheared the head of the windage tray bolt off I found in the pan and the other from the front came loose and dropped straight into the Oil Pan because it has no damage whatsoever.

This is the Oil pump I bought:
https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=5541591&cc=1231726&jsn=10471&jsn=10471

So you don't think I should use it @chrcyopscyho ?

Still haven't found the head and washer from the other bolt, I have looked everywhere, so maybe it shattered into little pieces when the rods hit it dropped into the pan and i didn't notice it come out from a previous oil change.

They were both from the left side so i think my windage tray was fluttering around a bit and maybe this was causing foaming in my oil which was affecting my cold and hot oil pressure differences (Cold = 65 PSI Hot 35 PSI) which is the reason i dropped the pan anyways.

Haven't taken any Main Caps off, don't know if I will considering I didn't find any damage in the Rod Caps.

The only visible damage I can see is on the bottom of 5, 6, 7 ,8 connecting rod end caps and it is minor

I did however strip the #5 the Rod Nut when taking it off as the windage tray bolt nicked the bottom of it and I could feel it when I took it off and when i put it back on and torqued it, it wouldn't torque, the other side did, took it off and rethreaded the Rod bolt and nut, put it back on and it still wouldn't torque so for the hell of it I took the other one off and tried it and it torqued, put the rethreaded one on the other bolt and it torqued, so they are both torqued now, but i don't feel very comfortable about it after thinking about it, I think I'm going to get new ones.

Regular Ones:
https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/arp-144-6001/make/dodge

Wave-Loc:
https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/arp-144-6401/make/dodge

The Wave-Loc ones are $15 more, are they worth it?

[Chryco Psycho]

Honestly there is No Way I would use that pump in a stock pan .
Get a Melling pump , high pressure but std volume rock auto is good to deal with , should be no issue to exchange it .

[Mopar5]

That's my understanding as well with a stock pan and high volume oil pump combined the pump can drain the pan faster than it can flow back leaving the engine momentarily with no oil flowing

[Jim AAR]

So get the melling m72, the m72hv would be the same as the one I have, correct. Rockauto only have the 2, same with summit.

Also, what about the rod bolts?

[Jim AAR]

I think that those steel half circles may be broken Intake Manifold Inserts that are used when installing them. Take a look at the attachment from the Gasket Kit, looks almost identical, smooth and rounded on the 1 side and on the other side a more flat ridge, I'll know for sure when I get the new ones, i'm getting the Victor reinz ones but the picture was better on the APEX one.

Maybe they dropped down and I didn't notice them when I had the Intake off, I have had the 6 pak manifold off at least twice and changed the gaskets and a 4 barrel manifold that was on it when I bought it and another one I put on, so there has been ample opportunity for them to fall in.

[Fastmark]

Well, just some thought here since we're speculating. I don't see a bolt head shattering into real small pieces but if the washer got broken into smaller pieces then it may have been able to go out the oil drain hole. See if the head will through the hole. No way it's going to shatter. It will just get mangled. As far as those half circles, what are the chances of all three of them being broken exactly in half? Those look solid to me and can't imaging they are meant to go on the intake gasket bolts.  It's been awhile since I built a small block but I only remember some small plastic washers that would go in the holes on the heads to hold the gasket in place while you installed it the intake. They were easily crushed. Those don't look like they are easily crushed.
As far as the rod bolt change, I would not change to an arp bolt in that one rod. I use a high performance machine shop and one thing I have never done is change the rod bolts without resizing the rods. Those ARP bolts are very tight going in the rod and slightly tight on the cap. It changes the size of the rod id. Now, this is according to my machine shop. I have never measured before and after installing new ARP before resizing personally. If a rod needs resizing, I changed the bolts. Those factory bolts are not that good

[Chryco Psycho]

The normal proceedure is to resize the rod ends with new bolts , , I have been able to get away with just swapping bolts in the past , you can swap the bolts rotate it over a few times & check the brgs for different wear pattern