Opinions Wanted: 100% Restoration vs. Modified

[70_440-6Cuda]

Hey all, need some opinions on direction of my build now that I am going at it full force.  I think I am pretty lucky with the car I ended up with considering it is my "almost" personal Holy Grail - my ultimate car would be a '71 'Cuda 440 6 barrel 4 speed with rallye dash, but do LOVE my car.

I have not been able to search up a car exactly like mine and feel like the combination is pretty cool: Black with black leather interior and black vinyl top, steel wheels (my preference), rallye dash and 440-6 with Dana 60.  Now that I am getting into it and am seeing the progress I have to make some decisions about the direction I take the car.

My first plan was 100% original, but I am thinking I may want to do something different.  For context, engine is not original to the car.  I have a date code correct (ish) engine and a LOT of factory correct original parts.  However, I am starting to lean towards building the car in a slightly different way.  I have no intention of selling the car, but want to preserve it's integrity and value.

I am restoring the body to 100% original spec with correct trim, lights, etc.  Interior will be 100% stock as well.  I know everything is subjective, but wanted to get some feedback from some of the purists and those with more market knowledge than myself about what brings value, or takes away.

I want to get some added power out of the engine, and am going to run aluminum heads and intake with electronic ignition and distributor, headers and larger diameter exhaust.  I am also going to run an O.D. transmission.  Basically all bolt on / bolt in items without modifying the car itself.  I have a correct distributor, intake & exhaust manifolds etc.

My thinking is as long as it is all easily reversible, and I have the original parts to go with the car it should not diminish the value by a huge margin.  I just don't want to go down a road where I am taking away from the car if that makes sense.  Again probably over thinking, but most of the cars I see for sale are either 100% stock, or full Restomods

I plan to drive and enjoy the car so it probably doesn't matter much, but curious how a build like that would be received, and if you saw something along those lines for sale what the reaction would be - good, bad, indifferent??

Last question - vinly top or no vinyl top?  I am leaning towards yes....

[pschlosser]

I have no intention of selling the car, but want to preserve it's integrity and value.

Ha ha, famous last words and pretty common for many of us.

My thinking is as long as it is all easily reversible...

Black and White:  Your car is (or will be) 100% optioned the same way it came from the factory, or it is not.  If you have a fender tag (body code plate) and/or a Broadcast (build) Sheet, the car will be more valuable keeping it original than not.

The whole point of the documentation is to PROVE a car came with a given arrangement of options. 

As Chevy car owners may know, anyone can bolt on an aftermarket chrome part to make the car prettier.  Does it make it more valuable?  Maybe not more than the cost of the part. 

Anyone can bolt on a rare part to their Mopar to make it look, perform, or feel better.  Does it make it more valuable?  Maybe not more than the cost of the part, unless... there is documentation to PROVE it came that way.

Also, stuff happens over the life of the car that is out of control of the owner.  And generally, such things are not considered a major fault to the originality of the car.  If its not the original numbers-matching engine, but a replacement just like it, for most, that is good enough.  Same goes for other parts that may wear out, or get damaged through it's life.  One example, the matching partial VIN number on the radiator support.  If the car has rear-ended someone in its life, and that support replaced, it will not match.  But for some, this (alone) is not a big detriment.

Now, if you DON'T have a fender tag and broadcast sheet, and/or a numbers matching engine, then there is an implied value that just isn't there, and never was there (for the current owner).  This can be liberating, allowing the owner to do as he chooses, since there isn't much additional loss (in value) by doing so.

If you want to retain the value and integrity of the car, and this is an option to you (because you have the documentation) then it's your decision.  A more common 318 car may not have a high-dollar value (compared to a Hemi) so there again, the owner is free to alter things without the prospect of loss.

I don't really want a car too valuable to drive and enjoy.  I'm not at a place in my life where I want to show off a car I keep polished with a diaper and cannot drive.  For some, the liberation they feel by having a car with a few scratches (for example) far outweighs the pristine valuable car they cannot (wisely) drive and risk a big loss if there is a mishap.

[pschlosser]

I have not been able to search up a car exactly like mine and feel like the combination is pretty cool: Black with black leather interior and black vinyl top, steel wheels (my preference), rallye dash and 440-6 with Dana 60.  Now that I am getting into it and am seeing the progress I have to make some decisions about the direction I take the car.

I agree those are some terrific options.  If those are original options, and you got the docs to prove it, I would recommend you keep it original.  And anything you change, as you said before, as long as you got the parts to put it back, then maybe that will be okay with the next owner (presuming there will someday be another owner)

[1970 cuda Joe]

My 70 'cuda was somebody else's dream. I fit my needs, so I purchased it instead of restoring a complete car that I had very little knowledge of. My thing with to old muscle cars is I like them to sit right & look right...how the left the factory. I had just finished a nut & bolt ground up type restoration on a 1969 ss396 Camaro that was so correct, the only thing I needed to find was an alternator. This was the second restoration on this car since 1981. I guess what I'm saying is different cars should get different attention. Your idea of only doing things that could easily be undone is a great thought. As for the vinyl top, it was the sign of the times. Very popular. On the Camaro side for 1969, almost 50% of the cars that left the factory had vinyl tops. I would buy & install the most correct & best quality top you could find. SMS Fabrics made the one for the Camaro. It's parchment Levant grain. When it showed up, it had PentaStar emblems on the back side of the NOS vinyl. Ultimately, it's your car. Do what makes it right for you. Good luck, Joe

[70_440-6Cuda]

@pschlosser I do have the original Broadcast sheet, but no fender tag unfortunately.  I have posted it in another thread, but here ya go...

Both cowl and radiator VIN stamps match.  While I do have a Broadcast sheet, and a very cool (in my opinion) list of options, the car is not "original" as over it's life it has been highly modified, so at best it is an "accurate" restoration.  And while it will always have some higher value as a factory original V code with great options, it is not a 100 point date code correct restoration - I dont have the patience or money for that.

Your feedback is helpful in deciphering what makes sense and doesn't.  I plan on making the car nice, and as accurate as I can, but to your point, I dont want a $50k paint job and be afraid to take it out of the garage.

Kind of looking at it like if I ever HAD to sell it, did I adversely affect the value by a huge margin making those bolt on changes if I have the original parts to go with it - really semantics I suppose, I just like hearing how others would perceive the finished product

[Rich G.]

Life's too short to worry about how the next guy who gets your car wants it. Build it your way and enjoy it. Unless it's an all original unrestored high dollar car it probably won't make a difference what direction you choose.

[RUNCHARGER]

I like them to look stock as they can. I also don't want to be humiliated in a brief acceleration contest. If I owned your car I would retain the vinyl roof as it's part of it's heritage. I would make sure the engine had at least stock beans (and maybe a bit more). A painted aluminum intake and coated headers would likely be the plan and I would run stock looking and painted 440 source heads that had been worked. I would also add a stock based electronic ignition. All of that could be easily undone but would increase the enjoyment of the car. That's only my opinion of course and everyone has a different one.
 I wouldn't do an OD trans, instead I would build an engine and rear axle combo that would make the best use of the original trans setup. 440's are easy to build for torque rather than horsepower and that works well with a simple transmission. A higher strung smallblock or modern engine benefits more from having a 13 speed with a splitter.

[70_440-6Cuda]

all good stuff, thank you!

I was pretty well decided on 100% stock look, and getting 600 HP out of the engine with the stock carb set up and a big nasty cam.  Found a local builder that says it should be pretty easy to accomplish.

I do like the vinyl top, gives it a vintage flair although the hardtop looks a little meaner in my opinion.

Starting to get excited about getting to the point of having to make some of these decisions!

@RUNCHARGER interesting point about the transmission - I already built the Dana with the original 4.10s, but that is an easy fix.  I was planning on using an A46H with an adapter from SMR but now something to think about

[Katfish]

I would definitely run the 46RH, best thing I've ever done.
This all presumes you actually plan to drive the car.
If it's a show poodle, don't bother.

[dodj]

I'm a build it the way you would have ordered it guy. Future value, up or down be damned. Build the car you always envisioned driving and enjoying it....not caring about how much someone else will pay for it after you're dead. Or...if you have kid(s) to pass it on to, they will probably appreciate having Dad's vision of a hot car in their garage and likely not care that the front left caliper is correct.

[torredcuda]

If you were planning on selling I would go 100% stock being a 440-6 car with broadcast sheet but since you are going to keep it (at least for a while) and  it is not numbers matching I would build the drivetrain up the way you suggested and enjoy it.

[bdschnei]

Do you plan on showing the car at local car shows?
This is where it gets interesting.
Hard core Mopar people will appreciate the money/time it went into keeping the car in its original state and vote accordingly.
On the other hand, the average car show spectator doesn't care at all about that. They'll vote for the car that appeals to them based mostly on the cool factor. Almost all of the local car shows fall into this category.
There are a few shows around my area that still break the cars into modified and unmodified categories, but that number is getting smaller every year. Lumping the cars into a single category gets rid of all the arguments over what constitutes original. Sometimes those arguments get more heated than they should so I can see why the shows go this route.

Unless the car is a numbers matching car already worth big $$, my advise would be to do what makes you happy. Forget about looking at the car as an investment, it's not. Anyone that tells you otherwise is delusional.

   

[Chryco Psycho]

I agree , I did my car the same way , I don't have the original engine so I built a monster , the K frame can be dropped & another engine installed in an afternoon easily . So build what you want for now .
 I did the body 100% original except any SE Chall should have dual mirrors with the huge blind spot the smaller window creates so I added dual racing mirrors !
I have a vinyl roof being an SE but overall I prefer painted roof cars personally .

[70_440-6Cuda]

Thanks for all the input, I value the opinions here especially because everyone is interested in the history and preservation of these cars.

I know it's not going to be a super high dollar collector car, but I don't want to diminish the value like the previous owner with things like filling in the side marker lights.

Going to do my best for an accurate  restoration of factory original, with a monster motor and OD trans so I can enjoy it.  Cars and coffee for fun, no plans for show entries, just build and enjoy, pass on to the fam.  After that I will be worm food so I suppose who cares

My 1940 Ford has been in the family nearby 70 years, I am the third owner after my dad

[EV2RTSE]

The F.A.S.T. cars are really interesting to me, cars that can sometimes run below-10 second quarter mile times but still look stock on the outside. Nothing at all wrong with adding headers and bigger exhaust and no doubt those things will deliver a lot of bang for the buck but you've also seemed to be interested in keeping things as original appearing as possible. Might be able to have the best of both worlds & worth talking with some of the guys building these cars.

https://dragillustrated.com/going-f-a-s-t-a-look-at-the-cars-of-the-factory-appearing-stock-tire-class/

https://www.hotrod.com/features/fast-1970-dodge-challenger-really-fast

https://www.hemmings.com/stories/fast-power-festival-2023-at-us131-motorsports-park/

On my build it has factory a/c and cruise control so I didn't feel that I wanted to get carried away with a motor with a lot of extra hp. I kept it mild, the builder just went .30 over and added a slightly lopier cam and some other slight mods. I added a pertronix ignition, etc. Stock manifolds & exhaust. The engine compartment looks completely original.

I did deviate from how the car was built originally by adding a factory rear sway bar and decided to also go with a larger front sway bar, heavier torsion bars & strut rods, oversized C-body tie rods, a firm feel steering box and fast ratio pitman & idler arms. Bilstein shocks all around. I doubt many people will peek under the car and notice the aftermarket stuff but it will make the car ride and handle much better than it did originally. The exterior of the car, interior and trunk will also look completely original.

My brother did the same sort of thing with his 70 R/T and the ride is surprisingly good. In fact a well known builder of F.A.S.T. cars in northern New Jersey took my brother's car out for a spin one time and remarked that it rode and handled much better than his 2800 original mile Hemi Challenger! Quite a compliment IMO. Just a few more things to consider.