Buy American, I'd rather not.......

[HP_Cuda]

Since real wages have been declining in the US for the majority of Americans in the last 20+ years it seems that this would also push folks to the cheapest and not the best.

I hate to sound like a grumpy old man, but people just don't take pride in their work like they used to.
And I agree, it's our own fault, you get what you pay for.  In our quest to cheaper "stuff" we've exported all the jobs that require skilled labor, so we end up with what we have.

Don't get me started on the guy last week who told me he could only set the toe for the alignment because the car was too low......

[torredcuda]

Blue collar salaries have not kept up with inflation, what was the middle class on dad`s salary is now a struggle with both parents working.

[Brads70]

Blue collar salaries have not kept up with inflation, what was the middle class on dad`s salary is now a struggle with both parents working.

Slightly different in the USA but here it's not the hourly wage it's the taxes ( of all sorts not just income taxes) A average car still cost approximately a years wages ( like in the 1950's) the difference now is the taxes. Income, gasoline, licence fee's, property etc, etc, etc....  ( big government)
I'll be kind and say " simple" people here are demanding 15 and hour, little do they realize by thinking it out ( you know ... with reason and logic, and facts)  that the only one that really benefits from this is the government. The price of most everything IS going up but the government still taxes by percentage so they win. The poor guy making minimum wage now pays more income tax, groceries, fuel, property tax etc all have to go up to compensate. All these things are now taxed at a percentage rate. The poor worker see's very little of this " raise" and the government see's most of it and more from the masses.
If the governments ( plural) were REALLY concerned with the lower income and middle class they would lower income tax, like you would pay very little if any until you made at least 20k but they never will simply because it's these people that provide them with the most taxes simply because they make up most of the population. ..... or used to. Hence the oncoming problem

[ViperMan]

I wish I could stand in defense of the American worker, but I can't...

We're out here building a power plant in Ohio and the quality of laborers being provided by the union halls is absolutely embarrassing.  These guys are using the pipe THEY'RE installing into the ground as trash cans, we see them inside the cranes and such, on their phones or sleeping, and not to mention, for every 1 hour each worker works out here on the site, we see about 20 minutes worth of work actually get done...

And I mean, I could kinda understand - kinda - if they were getting like, $10 bucks an hour and being worked to the bone, but they make 30-40 an hour even for the "cheap" guys, and they get all kinds of guaranteed breaks, air-conditioned break rooms, etc...

[torredcuda]

IMO unions are part of the reason we lost jobs to other countries, some unions protect "bad" workers and made it extremely costly for companies here. Brad is also correct in that taxes are always going up, rarely if ever do they go away or even go down, the government just keeps taking more. 

[HP_Cuda]

Maybe a real market correction will change those worker attitudes?

[HP2]

IMO unions are part of the reason we lost jobs to other countries, some unions protect "bad" workers and made it extremely costly for companies here. Brad is also correct in that taxes are always going up, rarely if ever do they go away or even go down, the government just keeps taking more.

I used to be very anti-union, but have tended to reverse my stance some as I've gotten older and done my research into how it evolved and conditions that drove it into being. Are there some turds in the system, sure. Could it be cleaned up, absolutely.  But in all honesty, I've run into turds in every environment I've worked so I don't see why unions would be different.

I also would not be so quick as to say that unions are why jobs are being exported. I instead would place the blame for that in two places; 1st and biggest, ourselves. As 401ks have proliferated as retirement funding, as opposed to company pensions, every citizen has become a fund manager demanding higher returns on investment. This demand has driven companies to seek to maximize stock holder value, so they won't hesitate to export jobs if creates greater return, hence value to the company. 2ndly, I blame the Federal government for creating a tax structure that encourages companies to export jobs where other national government allow tax free or severely limited taxes on income generated from plants in their company AND, for created the structure that incintivised companies to eliminate pension and promote 401ks.

Could the government use to trimming up, absolutely. IMO, this is a big part of the reason our Commander in Cheeto is in that position to begin with. He promised reform. Instead he has turned it into his own personal twitter platform for his irritation dujour.

[340challconvert]

IMO unions are part of the reason we lost jobs to other countries, some unions protect "bad" workers and made it extremely costly for companies here. Brad is also correct in that taxes are always going up, rarely if ever do they go away or even go down, the government just keeps taking more.

I used to be very anti-union, but have tended to reverse my stance some as I've gotten older and done my research into how it evolved and conditions that drove it into being. Are there some turds in the system, sure. Could it be cleaned up, absolutely.  But in all honesty, I've run into turds in every environment I've worked so I don't see why unions would be different.

I also would not be so quick as to say that unions are why jobs are being exported. I instead would place the blame for that in two places; 1st and biggest, ourselves. As 401ks have proliferated as retirement funding, as opposed to company pensions, every citizen has become a fund manager demanding higher returns on investment. This demand has driven companies to seek to maximize stock holder value, so they won't hesitate to export jobs if creates greater return, hence value to the company. 2ndly, I blame the Federal government for creating a tax structure that encourages companies to export jobs where other national government allow tax free or severely limited taxes on income generated from plants in their company AND, for created the structure that incintivised companies to eliminate pension and promote 401ks.

Could the government use to trimming up, absolutely. IMO, this is a big part of the reason our Commander in Cheeto is in that position to begin with. He promised reform. Instead he has turned it into his own personal twitter platform for his irritation dujour.

Totally Agree with you.

Keep in mind that Unions came into existence because of the awful working conditions that existed in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. Billionaire "robber barrons" used and exploited labor while they created monopolies and made obscene amounts of money. How about $5.00 a week wages for 12 hour days and you could work as young as 7 or 8 years of age.
The unions helped to create the middle class in America which did not exist in the 19th century.  If we continue on the current road and direction, the decimation of the middle class in the US will reach a boil over point.  It is happening now as our "leader" continues to remove protections that benefit average American citizens.  Read and learn about the political and legislative actions that are really taking place.
This is the first and last political statement I will make on this forum.

[HP_Cuda]

Don't cha just love campaign promises?

This country should quickly learn it cannot survive solely on a services based economy. Just like everyone diversifies their portfolio so should our economy. We need a mix of manufacturing and service based offerings and provide the most innovation in the world.

If the youngsters all believe they will be the next Kobe or Manning and not see the value in the trades like welding, carpentry, machining, plumbing, etc then we are in for a world of hurt. Especially with the amount of folks with degrees who are deep in debt and can only find jobs at the local bar or Starbucks.