Discouraged friend

[Plumcrazzy]

I have a friend who lives in NE PA. and he is trying to build a '70 Challenger. He was down to WV a couple of years ago and bought some stuff to support his project. He was very excited to get the process underway. We talk on the phone occasionally just so I can keep up with his progress. At this time he is extremely upset. His car had been in "body shop jail" for about two years and after 10's of thousands of dollars in shop fees and bills for AMD parts his car was no where near complete. He had to sue the shop to get his car back and the judgement was just a fraction of his investment (shop was in NY just across the state line). Got the car back and arranged for a more local shop to handle the body/paint. Nothing would line up---gaps were awful---the doors wouldn't even close because they were a full "ONE INCH" too long (door skins had been replaced and not wrapped properly). A lot of the replaced sub structures had to be removed and reinstalled correctly. New quarters, wheel houses had to be removed and reinstalled. Just an absolute mess and he is losing faith in this project. He is so far underwater it is doubtful her will ever recover much of his investment. I know----buyer beware but I truly feel very sorry for this guy. I am posting this so people who are new to restoring these old cars will be cautious about knowing what they are getting into and if they don't have the time/skills/tools and decide on a shop they need to be absolutely sure what they are doing. Does anyone out there have any advice to offer folks that are new to this hobby? Pitfalls? Most regular body shops make their bread & butter from insurance claims so they aren't too anxious to work on a 50 year old car and shops that specialize command huge money. Do body shops normally work within a contract?

[70 Challenger Lover]

From what I have experienced and seen with others, it is generally on an hourly basis. When I did my first restoration at 22, I found a guy that I trusted and what he did was break the job into pieces. We talked about each step and he would give me a crude estimate of how many hours he thought that step would take. I'd give him a little up front and chunks here and there as he progressed. When that step was done, we settled the bill and discussed the next step, starting over again. He took years and I wasn't happy about that but he was honest and fair with his prices plus he did nice work so hard to complain when I compare to other horror stories.

Sucks that your friend had to go through this. I compare car shops to construction contractors. There are great ones and there are terrible ones. No shortage of horror stories in either of those trades.

[Rich G.]

That really sucks that someone can rip him off that bad. I'm not sure if he can do anything legally. I know what I would do illegally. Best advice I can give to someone is to get referrals from people who had work done by the shop and know what kind of work they really do. Not cars that are at a show that are used for advertising. Talk to the person that paid for the job.. My friend got ripped off from a shop in Carlisle too!  Buy tools, ask questions, call a friend, learn how to do it yourself. You're much better off or just buy a car done. That can be scary to though. Not a cheap hobby but to pay for nothing is just horrible.

[1 Wild R/T]

Not for a second saying what happened is ok but I've heard much worse...

One guy I know sent his Porsche 956B that he had bought new & raced extensively to a highly awarded restoration shop... Sent allot of money too...  Got lots of pretty pictures... But every time he tried to schedule an in person inspection something came up & either he was told they (small two man operation) weren't going to be available that weekend or after making a 600 mile one way drive the shop was locked up.... But the pictures & invoices kept coming.... And he paid them....Then he popped in un-anounced... His car was in a storage area, it had been parted out & used to restore other customers cars.... Yes he got cops involved, no they wouldn't do anything..... The standard "It's a civil matter" line....   He took them to court & got a settlement but the shop went bankrupt & he got nothing....


Every time someone posts about getting a shop involved in the early stages of a project many of us try to convince the poster to think long & hard before committing to that restoration rabbit hole....

You need deep pockets, you need a car that either has sentimental value or significant potential monetary value & you need to understand the best you can hope for is to break even.. Very few do.... 

[Rdchallenger]

Just look at my build thread... Got hosed for a couple grand and got the car back in pieces. Pulled up my sleeves and said screw it, it's game time.

[Chryco Psycho]

You really have to do a lot of background work upfront , get recommendations from people who have had their cars done there , talk to customers you do not know & see what their cars look like & what their experience was . Anyone that will not let you see the car or or drop in unexpectedly is a huge red flag .
Any shop not doing what they are paid to do & constantly asking for more $$ with no true justification & doing substandard work for the $$ should & will be out of Business , a good reputation is very difficult to earn , a bad rep is easy to earn word travels fast , I had over a dozen cars done by the people I use , never a problem , very open & transparent not nessisarily cheap tho .

[Chryco Psycho]

Just look at my build thread... Got hosed for a couple grand and got the car back in pieces. Pulled up my sleeves and said screw it, it's game time.

This is why I learned to everything myself , when you pay good $$ & get poor results you learn to do it right by yourself

[js27]

That really sucks but happens everyday. I think everybody who has restored cars had some problem at one point or another.
Where in NE PA is he from ? I am from there. My friends lives in Hallstead and is doing a 70 Cuda Conv. He did a lot of work himself but farmed out the paint work to RJ's Cars-Restoration in NY. He was very happy with their work but they were not cheap.
JS27

[Plumcrazzy]

I get it guys. I was just venting on behalf of my friend. I have had to explain to my wife on more than one occasion that "Yes, I am going to do it myself because I don't trust anyone else".  Worked for me.  Learned to do it all---mechanical, body, paint, wiring. Started with a '34 Ford 5W coupe street rod to a '37 Chevy street rod then tackled the '70 Challenger. I was ready by the time for the Challenger. It is still sad that these lousy shops are still around.

[headejm]

There are some really good Mopar shops around the country and I wouldn't hesitate to take my car several hundred miles or so if I knew about the quality and efficiency of a shop. Several reputable guys on this website too and I hired @Shane Kelley to do some of my paint work and subassembly work. I can personally vouch for Shane's excellent work and personal character. I used Hughes Engines to do my engine machine work and they are a top notch Mopar engine shop. Luckily they are only 5 miles from my house. I assembled the engine and it runs nice and strong. Cope Racing Transmissions rebuilt my 727. I used a local paint shop to do my bodywork and paint but I did most all of the rest of the refinishing and assembly work. Not because I don't trust people but because I am capable of doing the work and I really wanted to take my 50 year old car apart and put it back together. You have to trust the people that you take your car to. I agree that most "local" body shops don't want to take on a major restoration project. Use this forum to flush out good shops in your region. Many knowledgeable and caring Mopar guys on this site.  Good luck!

[JH27N0B]

I had a bad time with my restoration project.  First with a shop that just sat on my project for years with excuses but never making much progress, but at least didn't rip me off financially, and second with a well known shop that ran up bills way beyond reasonable.  My late father used to say the pleasure remains when the price is forgotten, but in this case I spent a lot of money having a 3rd shop fix things the second shop did wrong or cut corners on. So it's hard to forget the price when you are throwing good money after bad fixing things that you paid dearly for already!
Over the years I've seen good shops go bad, for various reasons.  In some cases the owner got into financial trouble, or had a substance abuse issue.  In other cases, a shop has grown due to their good reputation, and the owner will hire a manager or forman to help manage things who turns out to be a crook or a flake.
So regardless of how much research one does, there is still a chance the shop someone goes with will let them down.