RIP Pete Rose

[RusTy/SE]

He was old school and one of the best.

[Cuda Cody]

Will they let him in the Hall of Fame now?

[RusTy/SE]

Personally, I hope so.

[MEK-Dangerous]

Do you know how many positions on the field he played and became an All-Star at each one of them??
Five. 1st, 2nd, 3rd base, then left and right field.

When he was under investigation for gambling and denied it, I was hoping he was clean. I was in his corner. Then a red flag popped up when he agreed to a lifetime ban from baseball if they dropped the investigation. Why on Earth would he agree to that if he was innocent? Then, maybe 10 years later, he was broke and decided to write a tell all book where he admitted to gambling on baseball. So you only tell the truth if it makes you money? That's when he lost me.

He was a great player. The amount of hits he had will never be beat. It's just his questionable character that will keep him out of the Hall Of Fame.

[318Stroker]

Will they let him in the Hall of Fame now?

Will they let him in the Hall of Fame now?

It's not that simple Cody. He is on the MLB permanently ineligible list. First he he would have to be removed from the list by a commissioner. He would then have to be reviewed by the the BBWAA Veterans committee to see if they would want to put him on the veterans ballot. If so, they would vote and he would have to get enough votes from them. There are 16 members on the committee, and he would need 12 for election to the HOF.
The chances of Pete ever going to the HOF are slim and none. And personally, I hope it stays that way.

[70_440-6Cuda]

I am not a huge fan of baseball, or even sports in general - I am an F1 MotoGP guy.  But my understanding is when he was banned there was an opportunity to be reinstated after 1 year. Was his gambling wrong, sure, was it that detrimental to the sport?  I am not so sure.

What about all the guys on enhancement drugs?  That seems much more detrimental to our youth but it seems to be a much more mild offense.  Kids thinking they cant compete without performance enhancers is a dangerous line.

Plus, what about what he did do in baseball, and for the sport?  I think there is always a time for forgiveness, and does the punishment fit the crime?  Doesn't much matter at this point, but I think he paid his dues

[Cuda Cody]

What's worse? Betting on baseball or performance enhancing drugs?

[MEK-Dangerous]

What's worse? Betting on baseball or performance enhancing drugs?

Cody,
  I'll play ball with you.   
Pete Rose was the last player/manager in baseball. So you can easily see how he managed would influence the game. And if he bet on that game... The PED's started in the late 80's, but baseball was behind the curve and didn't start testing for them until the mid-90's. So if a player was on PED's, he might hit more home runs and get a better pay check, but he is just influencing how he plays. That's why guys like Barry Bonds and Mark McGwire are eligible for the hall of fame. They still don't get enough votes every year because of the cloud surrounding them, but maybe someday. 

[Gross Polluter]

He bet when he was a manager so in an ideal world, his playing career could be recognized in the HOF separate from his few years as a manager but it doesn't work like that.  A rule is a rule and he broke it. 

At the same time, he claims he only bet on his team to win, which rings true to his hyper-competitive personality.  So it's hard to see how that would materially change how he managed since you have to assume every manager manages every game with the goal of winning.  I'm not a betting man so maybe I'm not aware of angles that might create a conflict even with betting to win, like did he bet on every game or only some games? And if he didn't bet on every game, how did he manage the games where he made no bet, and could there be any benefit in losing for him or anyone he knew? Or does it create an uneven playing field among managers in that, those managers who went by the rules and didn't bet, had less motivation to win games against his team?  Would more managers have been more successful if they bet on their teams to win?  No answers to these questions, which is probably the reason the rule is in place. 

All that said, it was a lifetime ban.  So now that he's no longer alive, maybe he's eligible?

[Brads70]

I know next to zero about baseball or sports in general but....If only we held politicians to these standards....

[70_440-6Cuda]

I am with @Brads70 in the knowledge department, but if Barry Bonds was eligible for the HoF, seems a double standard to me.  I don't really care either way, just seems a little ridiculous

[RusTy/SE]

It's a cloudy debate no matter which angle is looked at.

So far as I am aware, Pete did not take PEDs. Looking at it that way, he would be off the banned list and in the HOF without question - no ban, on the ballot, and certainly admitted to the Baseball HOF post haste.

But he gambled on Reds (and other Baseball) games while a player and manager, and then initially denied that when directly asked before eventually admitting his guilt. For the HOF, it all comes down to his inclusion on the banned list and that's a huge can of worms the Commissioner of Baseball has (at least to this point in time) denied taking Pete off of.

Or to put it in basic terms, consider that his records and stats while in the game are forever included in Baseball' all-time stats. Yet the person responsible for those stats is banned from Baseball. It's a similar consideration for players who admitted to taking PEDs. Particularly when nowadays players can be suspended for banned substances and reinstated multiple times (?!) with little fanfare.

Just one very cloudy can of worms.

[Gross Polluter]

The PED issue might be more important than gambling, but it's a lot more murky.  The biggest problem is that MLB looked the other way when it was actually happening so everyone was using because you had to to compete, and it's impossible to evenly enforce retroactively.  Then you have the issue that some of the substances weren't actually illegal or banned at the time they were being used.  And in the case of Bonds and maybe others, there was never a lab test or witness confirming he actually used the stuff.  Meanwhile, suspected user Sammy Sosa was also found to have been using a corked bat and that didn't make him ineligible for the Hall. 

What a mess...