Here in Denver we have 85, 87 and 91 octane. Some say the altitude effects the burn so it's equivalent to 87, 89, and 93 at sea level but I'm not sure about that. My Ram 1500 5.7 owners manual says 87 is acceptable but 89 is recommended so I round up and run 91. On the 392 Hemi in the Cuda I always run 91 because it's the highest. For the 505 in the Charger and 318 in the Sport Satty I also run 91 because it's the highest octane. I've heard there are 2 other stations in the metro area that offer 93 octane and one offers leaded fuel one Saturday's only or something like that.
So I'm curious what octane do you run on your e-body and on your daily.
91 is the best we can get around here. That's what I use in my E-Bodies.
In my neck of the woods I always use Shell premium (91) as it has no ethanol. There is higher octane fuel available at other brand stations(94?) but it has ethanol. This is in the Challenger, my other regular vehicles get the cheap stuff. LOL
The altitude to octane differences are real, I'd be fine with 87 in the ram, especially if it's not modified.
I run 93 in the 'Cuda, but I likely don't really need to given it's not a high compression engine. It just makes me worry less about knock since I haven't fully dialed in my timing tables. My smog 360 Warlock gets 89, mostly to just help with carb heat soak/vapor locking. My Subaru and BMW get 93, both are factory turbo 4cyl cars and need the knock protection.
We get 94 up here, expensive but it doesn't matter.
I run 94 and turbo blue 110 mix in the hardtop and 94 in the convertible. Cost about $100 for a tank in the hardtop. :unbelievable:
In my Challenger 87 is just fine for the old lean over. Thanks, Al
THe altitude has a real effect , as there is less air pressure @ 5000 ' , sea level is about 14.67 psi while @ 5000" you have 12.23 PSI
so if you have a 10:1 compression engine you should have 146.7 psi pressure in the cylinder while at 5000' you should have 122.3 psi under perfect conditions so you need less octane as there is less pressure / heat
BTW here 91 octane is regular & 95 premium
87 may have the most ethanol.
Junk.
At least run 89.
You'll probably notice better performance in going from 87 to 89.
I add Torco booster and then add Redline leaded substitute since I still have stock heads on the Hemi.
91 is the highest unless I go to the high Octane gas station.
Quote from: Topcat on November 12, 2017, 09:33:55 PM
I add Torco booster and then add Redline leaded substitute since I still have stock heads on the Hemi.
91 is the highest unless I go to the high Octane gas station.
I've read you really don't need the lead additive.
Down here in Aussie land we still have 95 and 98 at Caltex
Quote from: cudabob496 on November 12, 2017, 09:36:23 PM
Quote from: Topcat on November 12, 2017, 09:33:55 PM
I add Torco booster and then add Redline leaded substitute since I still have stock heads on the Hemi.
91 is the highest unless I go to the high Octane gas station.
I've read you really don't need the lead additive.
& you believe everything you read ? Without lead the exhaust valves will weld to the seat & tear away material every time they open , you either need stellite seats or some kind of additive , I have seen valves recessed over 1/4" deep into the head .
Doesn't do much good posting what octane your using without saying what engine you have. :D
Stock HP383. I use 89. Plugs look great. 91 is probably overkill and I have used 87 without any knocking.
Quote from: Chryco Psycho on November 13, 2017, 05:48:23 AM
Quote from: cudabob496 on November 12, 2017, 09:36:23 PM
Quote from: Topcat on November 12, 2017, 09:33:55 PM
I add Torco booster and then add Redline leaded substitute since I still have stock heads on the Hemi.
91 is the highest unless I go to the high Octane gas station.
I've read you really don't need the lead additive.
& you believe everything you read ? Without lead the exhaust valves will weld to the seat & tear away material every time they open , you either need stellite seats or some kind of additive , I have seen valves recessed over 1/4" deep into the head .
:iagree:
First I agree with Chryco Psycho if you don't have hardened seats & you actually use your car for more than a show pony you need lead....
Second I'm my Challenger vert between milled closed chamber 915 (iron) heads & my piston/cam selection I have a static C/R of 9.7 & a dynamic compression ratio of 7.36:1
I run 91 & on hot days when planning to climb a long grade like the Grapevine or La Questa I might dump in some octane booster just for peace of mind....
In Ontario we have 87, 89, 91, and 94 at some stations. Ethanol is always a concern. I have a 340 with iron heads. I use at least 91. Does anyone really notice any performance change? Higher octane just reduces detonation. My car I guess does run better on higher octane fuel I wouldn't say it makes any more power. No matter what fuel you use the specs of the engine don't change only the flash point does. :notsure:
Quote from: bandt on November 13, 2017, 07:22:13 AM
In Ontario we have 87, 89, 91, and 94 at some stations. Ethanol is always a concern. I have a 430 with iron heads. I use at least 91. Does anyone really notice any performance change? Higher octane just reduces detonation. My car I guess does run better on higher octane fuel I wouldn't say it makes any more power. No matter what fuel you use the specs of the engine don't change only the flash point does. :notsure:
In it's getting into detonation/ping then your risking damaging your engine, hopefully your brain tells you to get out of the gas... Hence you are leaving performance on the table....
Oh, BTW if you aren't getting off the gas that noise your hear is a explosion trying to shove the piston back down the hole before it reaches the top.. So yeah I think it hurts performance....
Oh, since that was your first post, I guess I should welcome you to the forum..... :welcome:
Both my 340's are 11.1 I run 93 most of the time. The Road Runner with the automatic transmission will ping with anything less. Never ran anything less in the Cuda. In Ohio they sell 100 octane at Sunoco right there at the pump. I usually take a bunch of cans when I travel there and bring it back. That's what I use for winter storage in the cars. I doesn't sour like most pump fuels. Doesn't stink the garage up when you fire the cars up to move them around in the buildings either. 6.99 a gallon.
These motors can detonate without you hearing it. It's called "silent detonation". You don't hear it but it's chewing on your motor. Either eating on your pistons or beating up your bearings or both. You can pull a plug and look at it with the naked eye and you won't see it. You need a little hand held microscope to see it. It will look like little specks of solder on your plug. That is detonation.
Here's the one I use from Amazon. They are cheap and will allow you to really read your plugs.
Quote from: 1 Wild R/T on November 13, 2017, 07:25:54 AM
Quote from: bandt on November 13, 2017, 07:22:13 AM
In Ontario we have 87, 89, 91, and 94 at some stations. Ethanol is always a concern. I have a 430 with iron heads. I use at least 91. Does anyone really notice any performance change? Higher octane just reduces detonation. My car I guess does run better on higher octane fuel I wouldn't say it makes any more power. No matter what fuel you use the specs of the engine don't change only the flash point does. :notsure:
In it's getting into detonation/ping then your risking damaging your engine, hopefully your brain tells you to get out of the gas... Hence you are leaving performance on the table....
Oh, BTW if you aren't getting off the gas that noise your hear is a explosion trying to shove the piston back down the hole before it reaches the top.. So yeah I think it hurts performance....
Oh, since that was your first post, I guess I should welcome you to the forum..... :welcome:
Thanks.
Maybe my post was badly worded. I'm not having any pinging issues. I was more talking about guys putting in higher grade fuel because they think it makes more power. If two 340's are identicle in every way including timing with no detonation issues with any octane and you put 87 in one and 94 in the other the only difference would be the cost of the fuel. Some guys swear there engine makes more power on the higher octane.
Quote from: bandt on November 13, 2017, 09:26:38 AM
Quote from: 1 Wild R/T on November 13, 2017, 07:25:54 AM
Quote from: bandt on November 13, 2017, 07:22:13 AM
In Ontario we have 87, 89, 91, and 94 at some stations. Ethanol is always a concern. I have a 430 with iron heads. I use at least 91. Does anyone really notice any performance change? Higher octane just reduces detonation. My car I guess does run better on higher octane fuel I wouldn't say it makes any more power. No matter what fuel you use the specs of the engine don't change only the flash point does. :notsure:
In it's getting into detonation/ping then your risking damaging your engine, hopefully your brain tells you to get out of the gas... Hence you are leaving performance on the table....
Oh, BTW if you aren't getting off the gas that noise your hear is a explosion trying to shove the piston back down the hole before it reaches the top.. So yeah I think it hurts performance....
Oh, since that was your first post, I guess I should welcome you to the forum..... :welcome:
Thanks.
Maybe my post was badly worded. I'm not having any pinging issues. I was more talking about guys putting in higher grade fuel because they think it makes more power. If two 340's are identicle in every way including timing with no detonation issues with any octane and you put 87 in one and 94 in the other the only difference would be the cost of the fuel. Some guys swear there engine makes more power on the higher octane.
In that case :iagree:
Always the highest I can find.
That would be 91 unless I make a special trip over to grab 100 octane ethanol free gas. There is a station on the way to my office which carries all the Torco fuel lines.
Here in the midwest area (Chicago-area, Milwaukee-area, Indianapolis-area, Detroit area, St Louis area, etc) I run premium no-lead 92-93... just fine for typical "driving -- street, highway, etc). But, if I'm doing some aggressive driving -- track activity... HPDE, HSAX,. AX, etc -- then I occasionally add some 104 Octane boost, or better yet, if there is ~95-100 un-leaded premium, the engine seems to really like that fuel. Caution, I've found -- NOT to switch to some leaded gas, such as ~100-103-105-110... the car will NOT run on that fuel.. really crappy... hesitates, stalls, black smoke, etc.... probably requires re-jetting which I'm not doing for a single day at the track.
'70 Challenger T/A; 340-6-pack, stock grind hyd cam, Hooker 1-3/4" headers w/ 2.5" pipes and Flowmasters, Mopar Performance Chrome box ignition, 10.5:1 TRW pistons, mildly ported standard x-heads/match ported intake; beefed 727 ~2400 BM Holeshot, 3.23 rear 8-3/4 rear. Car cruises the hwy at ~3400 rpm (~70 mph); engine revs to easy 6-6500 when on track, averaging ~4000-6000 rpms for lapping sessions).
Next engine may be a ~408-416!... within next 1-2 years.
Here in NC the gas comes in 87-89-93. In my 66 Charger wth HP383, and a 224 duration cam, i run 89... i had the static timing set at at factory 12 BTDC. At that setting there was no pinging using regular (87 octane 10% ethanol) gas. Then read an article that says that the unleaded 10% ethanol gas we buy today has a slower flame front than the old leaded gasoline so that we should run 2-4 degrees More than what the engine called for back in 1966. So, upped the timing to 16 and the engine does run a whole lot better..especially off the line, BUT it would ping on 87 badly, lightly ping on 89, but with a cheap octane booster in each tankful runs good with no pinging. So 89 it is with 16 BTDC.
On my 74 Challenger with built 360 (Mopar Purple 508 cam 248@50 overlap 9.75 static compression) to get decent (not great) idle had to advance static timing to between 20-22 BTDC anything less and the idle is really really rough. At that setting it will idle at 800-1000 rpm while in gear (904 torqueflite) REQUIRES 93 Octane to not ping, and to start easy. So 93 it is for it.... Ticks me off because 93 octane costs $.60 a gallon more than 87 at most stations, and it only gets 10-12 mpg unless i baby the hell of of it...and whats the fun in that?
Quote from: Shane Kelley on November 13, 2017, 07:50:34 AM
Both my 340's are 11.1 I run 93 most of the time. The Road Runner with the automatic transmission will ping with anything less. Never ran anything less in the Cuda. In Ohio they sell 100 octane at Sunoco right there at the pump. I usually take a bunch of cans when I travel there and bring it back. That's what I use for winter storage in the cars. I doesn't sour like most pump fuels. Doesn't stink the garage up when you fire the cars up to move them around in the buildings either. 6.99 a gallon.
These motors can detonate without you hearing it. It's called "silent detonation". You don't hear it but it's chewing on your motor. Either eating on your pistons or beating up your bearings or both. You can pull a plug and look at it with the naked eye and you won't see it. You need a little hand held microscope to see it. It will look like little specks of solder on your plug. That is detonation.
Here's the one I use from Amazon. They are cheap and will allow you to really read your plugs.
Great idea, I already have a professional microscope from my Microbiology days that I can use on low power to see the spark plugs with
My understanding is higher octane fuel does not make more power by itself. What happens though is if your engine detonates you are damaging it, if you back off your timing so it doesn't detonate then you are losing power.
The other factor that come into play are Use / powerband / cam design
I ran my 440 Duster for 9 seasons , it had real 11:5 compression with milled closed chamber iron heads & a 312* ad duration cam & ran fine on Sonoco Gold 94 octane to a point , if you dumped the clutch at 1200 rpm & opened the throttle it was like there was a bag of marbles in the engine , It would ping like crazy but give it a chance , stay out of the throttle until it hit the powerband around 3400 rpm & it was happy , or dump the clutch @ 4000 & no problem it was not finished pulling @ 7200 rpm where I shifted it ! I did run it on AV gas too !!
Quote from: Chryco Psycho on November 13, 2017, 05:48:23 AM
Quote from: cudabob496 on November 12, 2017, 09:36:23 PM
Quote from: Topcat on November 12, 2017, 09:33:55 PM
I add Torco booster and then add Redline leaded substitute since I still have stock heads on the Hemi.
91 is the highest unless I go to the high Octane gas station.
I've read you really don't need the lead additive.
& you believe everything you read ? Without lead the exhaust valves will weld to the seat & tear away material every time they open , you either need stellite seats or some kind of additive , I have seen valves recessed over 1/4" deep into the head .
No, but when I read it more than once, and hear it from different racers, I tend to believe it.
The statement below is pretty much what I have seen over the last 20 years. If you are just a street car,
that rarely gets up to 6000 rpm, and doesn't stay there long, I think you are wasting your money, and poisoning
yourself with lead additives. Machinists I know that have torn down engines have not observed damage to soft valve seats,
in street cars, with unleaded gas. As another site I just visited said, the "potential for damage is overblown"
Again, using leaded products is quite dangerous to ones health, and the people around you!!
"While concern over valve seat recession in older vehicles has been raised as an argument
against the complete conversion to unleaded fuel, the actual incidence of valve seat recession in
countries around the world is small even in vehicles with "soft" valve seats.2
Only vehicles which travel consistently a very high loads and speeds appear to be at all vulnerable in actual use. And
even for these vehicles, additives other than lead have been shown to protect valve seats."
I have first hand experience with it. The 906 heads on my truck had some exhaust valves pounded in 1/4". It ran just a bit smoother after I changed the heads out.
Quote from: HP_Cuda on November 13, 2017, 11:05:48 AM
Always the highest I can find.
That would be 91 unless I make a special trip over to grab 100 octane ethanol free gas. There is a station on the way to my office which carries all the Torco fuel lines.
Where Bryan?
As I mentioned earlier in this post and as confirmed by Sheldon, Chryco Psycho is spot on.... You can quote all the printed articles you'd like I've personally dealt with valve seats pounded into the head.... And I've seen enough false statements posted in print that it doesn't mean a thing to me.... In many cases you can follow the advertising money as the cause for the statement, other times the author has an agenda.... Either way un-hardened valve seats will recede if used somewhat hard....
Just because it is on the internet it has to be true right :headbang:
You can do what you want but 100% of the engines I build have hardened seats , I have seen many heads where the seats have eroded [not pounded in ] & A lot of them have never seen 6000 rpm in their life . The bonus is new seats can allow for bigger valves & even at stock height restore the seat height to as new rather than recessed , having the valves recessed hurts air flow . I can assure you no engine I will ever build with not have hardened seats installed . :alan2cents:
Another factor is Mopar has always had more nickle in the the iron mix they use so the heads & blocks are harder but they still receed , also the last heads [452] on big blocks had flame hardened seats which hold up somewhat better but once you cut the seat for a valve job you are likely through the surface hardening .
I ran my 915 heads for 6 yrs without hardened seats, in my 440 Cuda, using 92 unleaded gas, and when I had them ported,
I was told the seats looked fine. So, everyone do what they think is best. I admit you guys have a lot more experience than I do.
As far as truth on the internet, we are all on the internet. I try to get my info from mechanics who post. The below is interesting. Alloys seem to be a big factor:
"Most of the early chevy motors I have done work on its important (having hardened valve seats) , as for the other Gm brands , never seen a problem , but like someone mentioned I think it had to do alot with the alloys used by the OEms , as Chevys alloys are like butter compaired to a Olds or Ponitac , and Ford and Mopar are like Diamond . the shop I use for my engine work loves working on Mopars and Fords as they can cut bores and not have problems like they do with Chevys , and I know a so called shop that complains if you bring them a non chevy block , they will charge you extra as its "hard on there tooling" they say , IMO they are a bunch of tools anyways over there . also several Oems started induction harden there seats in the late 60's , but I remember my grandfather and my dad talking about they used to valve jobs on there 40-50 era cars almost every 2-3 years when they had lead in the gas .
one of my Ponchos has 260K on it and was a unleaded car since the late 70's when they outlawed it here in Illinois , it was a daily driver apx 100 miles a day , in a old 72 bonneville , the heads have a little recession of the valves , one has micro welding of the valve itself , it still sealed ( 100 PSI) and ran when I pulled it out of the rusted out body .
At bottom of page, are additives that can replace lead yet help with valve seat recession.
http://www.classiccars4sale.net/classic-car-how-to-guides/restoration/a-guide-to-unleaded-additives
That would be the Sunol gas station just over the grade.
Red Line Lead Substitute
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/red-60202
Quote from: HP_Cuda on November 13, 2017, 10:20:48 PM
That would be the Sunol gas station just over the grade.
Yes I've gone there many times.
The only other one I know is in Saratoga.
You can actually drive you car up to Sonoma raceway (used to be Sears point) and fill up with all the CAM2 brands.
Not cheap though. :)
Cool thing is they are still running Grudge nights Mike - care to go next season?
https://www.sonomaraceway.com/track/wednesday_night_drags/
Quote from: Topcat on November 15, 2017, 06:53:32 PM
Quote from: HP_Cuda on November 13, 2017, 10:20:48 PM
That would be the Sunol gas station just over the grade.
Yes I've gone there many times.
The only other one I know is in Saratoga.
Careful with the race gas, unless your engine is built for it and requires it , you will go slower. A few gallons mixed with regular pump gas is ok.
But it does smell nice! Especially the Oxygenated Racing Fuels .... smells like perfume to me! :D
Back when I was in the Navy ( Navy Air). My first duty station was NAS Pensacola Fla. I worked on the flight line, and of course had access to avgas. We could get the keys for the fuel pits from the night watch, a buddy, and a friend had a '56 Chevy w/ a 283 in it. Of course military pay didn't make us millionaires so we'd go out to the flight line fill half the tank with avgas 115/145 and go into town fill up the rest of the way w/ regular. Chevy ran pretty good for awhile then a bit later didn't run at all, he tore the engine down in the hobby shop on base found that several of the pistons had rather large holes in the tops of them. That stuff ran a little hot, wouldn't you say? He didn't even mention the plugs. Thanks, Al
Here in Utah, the local Sinclair station has a pump that has 100 octane for $5 a gallon. I run that in my 440/512 stroker '70 'Cuda and 87 in all my other engines.
My 383 runs decent on 93 but I have to retard the timing a few degrees. When I have some extra $$$ I'll put some 110 in @$9.99 per gal. Ouch! It likes it a lot better performance wise at the slightly higher timing.
Quote from: Brads70 on November 16, 2017, 02:29:58 PM
But it does smell nice! Especially the Oxygenated Racing Fuels .... smells like perfume to me! :D
I often use VP leaded 110 in the Harley and love to sniff the gas cap while sitting at the light .
91 in both ebodies (440 & 360)
Octane is a knock deterrent and does nothing towards hp. Its common for people to think a higher octane gives more power due to high performance engines using it. But they are using it because of higher compression and/or timing that requires it.
Racing gasolines makeup is more than just octane.
I use 93 at the pump in my 1970 440 six and 396 chevelle but I store them and occasionally run with VP110 leaded. Love that smell...
Seems octane helps power in my 98 Escort. 89 Octane makes the car run better and
have more power than 87 Octane.
When choosing a octane, remember that your choice should be based upon need -- simply to avoid engine knock (pre-ignition/detonation -- worst killers of head gaskets... can also damage pistons/rings/rod bearings). If you drive mildly, you can probably get away with lower octane, but if/when you drive aggressively putting the pedal-to-the-metal, and/or towing, etc, then upping the octane rating will be to your benefit so to avoid pre-ignition/detonation.
Quote from: Racer57 on November 17, 2017, 06:32:43 AM
Octane is a knock deterrent and does nothing towards hp. Its common for people to think a higher octane gives more power due to high performance engines using it. But they are using it because of higher compression and/or timing that requires it.
Racing gasolines makeup is more than just octane.
But like in my case it allows me to bump my timing up a little more and does give better use of power. Though it does not add extra power it allows you to use it more effectively.
Kinda confused here. If you run a higher octane, you can sometimes
increase timing advance, and therefor make more power. So higher octane
can help your engine make more power. On the new Dodge Demon, you add
about 40 hp by going to race gas.
Quote from: Bluemonster71RT on November 17, 2017, 05:47:56 PM
Quote from: Racer57 on November 17, 2017, 06:32:43 AM
Octane is a knock deterrent and does nothing towards hp. Its common for people to think a higher octane gives more power due to high performance engines using it. But they are using it because of higher compression and/or timing that requires it.
Racing gasolines makeup is more than just octane.
But like in my case it allows me to bump my timing up a little more and does give better use of power. Though it does not add extra power it allows you to use it more effectively.
Quote from: cudabob496 on November 17, 2017, 06:50:23 PM
Kinda confused here. If you run a higher octane, you can sometimes
increase timing advance, and therefor make more power. So higher octane
can help your engine make more power. On the new Dodge Demon, you add
about 40 hp by going to race gas.
Your agreeing with what I said. :D
Quote from: Racer57 on November 17, 2017, 07:39:40 PM
Quote from: Bluemonster71RT on November 17, 2017, 05:47:56 PM
Quote from: Racer57 on November 17, 2017, 06:32:43 AM
Octane is a knock deterrent and does nothing towards hp. Its common for people to think a higher octane gives more power due to high performance engines using it. But they are using it because of higher compression and/or timing that requires it.
Racing gasolines makeup is more than just octane.
But like in my case it allows me to bump my timing up a little more and does give better use of power. Though it does not add extra power it allows you to use it more effectively.
Quote from: cudabob496 on November 17, 2017, 06:50:23 PM
Kinda confused here. If you run a higher octane, you can sometimes
increase timing advance, and therefor make more power. So higher octane
can help your engine make more power. On the new Dodge Demon, you add
about 40 hp by going to race gas.
Your agreeing with what I said. :D
yes, but like I said, my 98 Escort only requires 87 Octane, but runs stronger on 89? Why is that?
The computer in the escort is sensing knock on 87 & can adjust on 89 to give more power without damage
ok, so without sensing knock, computer will advance timing.
makes sense. So, wonder what it will feel like if I go 92 octane.
will try it.
93 Octane here. Higher Octane to decrease the chance of knocking and get the most power out of what your engine is capable of producing.
My '09 5.7 had knock sensors. if a knock or ping was detected it would adjust timing to stop it which would affect the power output the engine
was capable of producing. I ran 93 in that car also. I might add that those sensors are very sensitive. They can pick up a ping or knock that your ear can't detect.
Anyway that's what I learned in the 5 years I had that car talking to different engine builders.
I use 93 in all of our cars ... Even my wife's Prius. I've been told that higher octain gas improves milage in all cars. :notsure:
Quote from: ToxicWolf on January 09, 2018, 08:03:49 PM
I use 93 in all of our cars ... Even my wife's Prius. I've been told that higher octain gas improves milage in all cars. :notsure:
But does it increase the mileage enough to pay the additional expense of the fuel ?
Btw, on a Graveyard Cars episode when they fired up a '70 dual quad Hemi, Mark Worman said "Everytime a dual quad Hemi starts, a Prius dies". :D
Quote from: Racer57 on January 09, 2018, 08:15:24 PM
Quote from: ToxicWolf on January 09, 2018, 08:03:49 PM
I use 93 in all of our cars ... Even my wife's Prius. I've been told that higher octain gas improves milage in all cars. :notsure:
But does it increase the mileage enough to pay the additional expense of the fuel ?
Btw, on a Graveyard Cars episode when they fired up a '70 dual quad Hemi, Mark Worman said "Everytime a dual quad Hemi starts, a Prius dies". :D
I did a little testing with the Prius. It was consistently getting 52 mpg with the cheap gas. Sinced I switched to the higher octain, it has been 56 to 57 mpg. :banana:
Hi,
I use a mix of five gallons C12 (octane is 108) and the rest REC 90. Stock 440
Mike
The highest octane I can find!!!
:drinkingbud:
Occasionally use VP 110 leaded, smells great , or 91 or 93.
When you post what octane your using, please post wtf engine your putting it in ? :D As far as I know, you have a stock 225 slant six !! :D
Quote from: Racer57 on January 10, 2018, 07:09:31 AM
When you post what octane your using, please post wtf engine your putting it in ? :D As far as I know, you have a stock 225 slant six !! :D
That right there is funny....LOL.... :burnout:
What? Doesn't everyone run a 440???
:haha:
You only need as much octane in our NON-Computer controlled cars as is needed to keep it from pinging at the ignition timing we want to run. Anything beyond that is a WASTE.
Now in computer controlled cars we never hear pinging because the electronics "listen for it" and retard the ignition timing as needed to prevent pinging. So, on them SOMETIMES we will get better performance and gas mileage, if, the system was running with retarded ignition to prevent the pinging. However, simply using the mfg suggested octane (which is usually 87) is normally enough.
To ToxicWolf...you say your Prius went from 52 to 56 mpg by using 93 Octane in your Prius.
MAN you are pouring money down the drain. Here in Raleigh the average price yesterday for 87 octane is $2.35 per gallon. 89 Octane costs .30 more, and 93 another 30 bringing it to 2.95 per gallon... an increase of 60 CENTS for 93 Octane. Now 56 mpg is a 4 mpg increase over the base 52, so 4/52 = 7.7 % percent increase in fuel economy. However, you are paying 25% more for your gas... Sir...you are pouring money down a drain !! Higher Octane gas when not NEEDED...is simply a waste !! Only buy the octane needed !!! Its just that simple !!
Quote from: chargerdon on January 16, 2018, 02:42:00 PM
You only need as much octane in our NON-Computer controlled cars as is needed to keep it from pinging at the ignition timing we want to run. Anything beyond that is a WASTE.
Now in computer controlled cars we never hear pinging because the electronics "listen for it" and retard the ignition timing as needed to prevent pinging. So, on them SOMETIMES we will get better performance and gas mileage, if, the system was running with retarded ignition to prevent the pinging. However, simply using the mfg suggested octane (which is usually 87) is normally enough.
To ToxicWolf...you say your Prius went from 52 to 56 mpg by using 93 Octane in your Prius.
MAN you are pouring money down the drain. Here in Raleigh the average price yesterday for 87 octane is $2.35 per gallon. 89 Octane costs .30 more, and 93 another 30 bringing it to 2.95 per gallon... an increase of 60 CENTS for 93 Octane. Now 56 mpg is a 4 mpg increase over the base 52, so 4/52 = 7.7 % percent increase in fuel economy. However, you are paying 25% more for your gas... Sir...you are pouring money down a drain !! Higher Octane gas when not NEEDED...is simply a waste !! Only buy the octane needed !!! Its just that simple !!
Yep ... Went back to the cheap stuff :haha:
Quote from: Michael_B767_ATP on January 09, 2018, 08:40:32 PM
Hi,
I use a mix of five gallons C12 (octane is 108) and the rest REC 90. Stock 440
Mike
108 probably not doing anything for you.
116 octane.....91 plus a methanol / water injection system .28 cents a gallon for the extra cost of 20 below windshield washer fluid and the heet gas antifreeze to doctor each gallon.
I've had times I've alternated between mid grade and premium.... so 89 / 93... never ping. If I plan on an aggressive weekend then 93. I 've run 110 race gas..... waste of money....
I like to use this stuff for new builds because it smells good. Doesn't stink me and the shop up when I'm dialing in the motor. That pump gas stinks something horrible when you run these camed up cars in a building.
I also run my gas tank dry and put 5 gallons of this in for winter storage. Usually run the car a couple miles so I know the system is completely flushed out and nothing but pure race fuel in it. Doesn't spoil like pump gas. It is expensive! Definitely not for the daily driver!
Why not run the most advance you can and have fun doing it.
Here ya go!
I usually run 91 minimum in the 440HP Charger, my wife runs the same thing but I told her I think it is a waste to run it every time. Her 74' Cuda has a 360 in it but is a low compression engine so I think 89 would be fine. Before my 70' Cuda went on vacation I ran 93 at low boost to drive around town and if was going to the track or play around I would add enough Boostane to rise it to 103. That's how it was tuned including the water meth injection.
I don't understand, a normal 440 is supposed to be at about 36 BTDC, for
max power. About 36, maybe plus or minus 1 or 2 degrees.
I don't think you can keep increasing it to 38, 40, 42, etc, just by using
a higher octane fuel, and expect to make more power, each time you
up the octane rating.
Friend sent me this.
https://journal.classiccars.com/2016/12/18/shell-develops-new-premium-fuel-engines-old-cars/
Comments or thoughts?
Hmm: Up here I use Chevron 94 octane in anything I like driving (Viper and old cars).
https://youtu.be/ECc-HQgQhig
Looks like Shell doesn't like people filming at their gate .
Generally 93.. I've run race gas.... no performance difference I've topped off w mid-grade a few times too. Never pinged. Timing at 35, NIKKI throws a hissy at 36
Octane ratings
Understanding octane ratings.
About octane ratings
Octane rating is a measure of a fuel's ability to resist 'knock'. The octane requirement of an engine varies with compression ratio, geometrical and mechanical considerations and operating conditions. The higher the octane number the greater the fuel's resistance to knocking or pinging during combustion.
The octane ratings of Exxon- and Mobil-branded Synergy™ gasoline
Exxon and Mobil Regular Unleaded Octane 87
Exxon Plus and Mobil Special Unleaded Octane 89
Exxon Supreme and Mobil Super+ Unleaded Octane 91-93
The right octane level for your vehicle
The recommended octane rating for most vehicles is usually octane 87, but be sure to check your vehicle owner's manual. Ordinarily, a vehicle will not benefit from using an octane higher than recommended in the owner's manual. However, some car models have high-compression engines and electronic controls, which are designed to benefit from the greater power output and improved fuel economy of high octane fuel. Since octane requirements can vary with operating and environmental conditions, your vehicle may need a higher octane fuel than recommended to prevent knocking.
I use 93, I can probably run 87 without issue but I prefer the knock protection.
If I start doing long cruises I can pull timing with a button and run it, however.
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I always use 91 octane, the highest available here.
Quote from: CudaMoparRay on August 22, 2018, 12:36:09 PM
I always use 91 octane, the highest available here.
Me to Non Ethanol :alan2cents: