E-Bodies.org Cuda Challenger Forum

Here we go, the RTS 'Cuda video is live!




(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51996648912_c1fea17d27_b.jpg)

poorly redone fender tag.

That's the original fender tag.

Ryan:  Have you ever seen any other L.A. made E Bodies with an 802 SPD? I have 100076 with 818 for an SPD. I've never seen one with any date earlier than 818 from L.A.

M in the VON means show car.
Presumably it is a pre production car? 
Why would this car have been built in LA? Was the car customized by a west coast shop and they provided them a pre production design validation build for it from the LA plant that couldn't be licensed to build this show car?
Maybe some of those questions are answered in the interview with Chuck Miller, I haven't had a chance to watch the whole video yet.
Oddest thing is the 9 in the fender tag VIN.  Was that a mistake as they were still finishing up some 1969 model production at the plant?

So sad Steven never got the chance at this car  :crying:

How do the doors open?
It would be great if the car could get reunited with the other 3.  However, they got split up after Steve J passed away.  The Duster is in the Brothers Collection, I heard the 2 Roadrunners were sold to a collector in NJ, along with the Diamante.  He's a known collector, but apparently not someone who takes his cars out to shows from what I've heard so they are now out of the public eye.

Thanks for posting enjoyed that video and history lesson. Back in the day such  a different time thank you  :australia:

Quote from: JH27N0B on April 14, 2023, 12:59:57 PM
M in the VON means show car.
Presumably it is a pre production car? 
Why would this car have been built in LA? Was the car customized by a west coast shop and they provided them a pre production design validation build for it from the LA plant that couldn't be licensed to build this show car?
Maybe some of those questions are answered in the interview with Chuck Miller, I haven't had a chance to watch the whole video yet.
Oddest thing is the 9 in the fender tag VIN.  Was that a mistake as they were still finishing up some 1969 model production at the plant?

Watch the video to get answers to your questions.

I'm going to go through the questions just in a list.  I didn't want to do 10x "quotes".

The fender tag is legit, it's the original one from the car.

I have seen one other LA built car like this, it is actually VIN 10006.  Another red six barrel car.  Currently lives around St. Louis.

It was a press car for the west coast.  They needed a six barrel car quickly when Chuck Miller got the OK to produce the car, so they grabbed it out of the press fleet out there.

Yes, it suck Steve never found this car.  He met the owner, but never found where the car was hidden.

The doors open with that little push button on the outside of door.

You know what would be cool, if the owner of the other Promo Cars brings them all to MCACN soon.... like real soon... That would be cool.

It would be cool if the owners brought these cars to Carlisle and other shows, not all of us can make MCACN.

1970 version paint (Greens) and 1971 Version paint (Reds/Orange) with fender tag.
It is an odd LA tag with BS23V9E100005. The only 1969 E-Body?

Quote from: MoparCarGuy on April 14, 2023, 07:44:06 PM
1970 version paint (Greens) and 1971 Version paint (Reds/Orange) with fender tag.
It is an odd LA tag with BS23V9E100005. The only 1969 E-Body?

I know of one other car that has that, it's vin BS23V9E100004 and it resides around St. Louis.

I would like to know if there could possibly be a broadcast sheet or two still in the car. Glovebox top or inside a seat back?

Asking for the world now.  Preproduction, LA, early build, aftermarket custom do up. 
What are the chances of a build sheet with that car.   

Probably the coolest E body ever made.   All situations considered. 

Looks like it`s already being flipped.

And it still has the original spare under it. 
Wouldn't you just put an innertube into the other tire with the matching rim if you didn't want to get rid of the "original" tire? 

Quote from: cuda hunter on April 15, 2023, 06:13:18 AM
And it still has the original spare under it. 
Wouldn't you just put an innertube into the other tire with the matching rim if you didn't want to get rid of the "original" tire?

The original tire exploded.  There was no saving it.

And I wasn't able to take the car apart.  It will be up to the next owner to find a build sheet.

Quote from: torredcuda on April 15, 2023, 03:49:16 AM
Looks like it`s already being flipped.

...and she cleaned up really nice.

Yeah! It looks great.  Wish I had a showroom for that.


Not surprised there was no room for you to take the car apart.  Not yours to do so.
What a surprise that would be to find that build sheet.   What a car!!

Build sheets in LA built cars are pretty rare. You never know, but I doubt there's one there.
Here's another video of the car that was made a year ago from Ian and Bob Ashton, but couldn't be released until now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNhMsCEb3RI

The guy that held on to it all those years must be real happy he sold it to a flipper  :looney: how fast can I cash in... :bigmoney:

If you watch the Ian Ashton video, it appears that the guy who owned it is elderly and not in good shape, and has ended up in an assisted living facility. Somebody is managing his affairs, and someone who knew the owner worked to get the car away from the caretakers before who knows what they might have done with it.
The custom car builder who did the build back then has had it in his garage for safekeeping until everything could get straightened out. In the video there is a police officer inspecting the car and having the VIN checked, so it can be registered as apparently the title is lost.
So the story seems to be a lot more involved than ASSuming "some flipper got it".  :foul:
When the whole story comes out, we will probably find it's more a story of some car guys who rescued it.  :cheers:

Quote from: JH27N0B on April 15, 2023, 03:29:00 PM

So the story seems to be a lot more involved than ASSuming "some flipper got it".  :foul:

Sorry, I just watch up until the point where they said that the guy that bought it (from the elderly guy) is now sending it to MECUM  :dunno: so if that's not a "flipper" I don't know what is...If it was someone like Tim Welborn or something, who bought it from the elderly guy and keep it forever in his collection, then I would have much respect. :alan2cents:

The Ashton video you had to eavesdrop some to pick up bits and pieces of the story.  Ian is walking around filming the car while his dad chats with several guys involved in the situation who are off to the side.
One thing I overheard in the video is that Steve in his quest to buy it was a little too pushy with the owner, and the owner Tony developed a dislike of him. Saying he'd burn it before selling it to him. I overheard some of the conversation where it was said at one point he indicated he wanted the car to go to the Henry Ford Museum. But that idea was discouraged as the museum would likely just have sold it off eventually to fund other things.
Whatever the case, sadly the guy is fading away in a nursing home. It's not even clear if the car was purchased from the management company that is in charge of selling off his home and assets, and is being flipped, or if it's being auctioned in his behalf and the proceeds going to pay his bills.
It's a sad situation, in this case it sounds like the guy might not have heirs and never made any wishes known for what is to be done with his stuff.
So it is irritating listening to people jumping to conclusions and criticizing a guy who is likely an invalid at a nursing home now perhaps with no family.  Pretty heartless.
Reminds me I need to get back on my never finished project of writing a will, and figure out a way to keep my Mr Norms records and other documentation of my T/A somewhere where it doesn't get lost if a bus hits me or I end up fading away in a care facility while geniuses on forums belittle me.  :alan2cents:

You bring up a good point....how many of us here are getting up there closer to death and have really no interested family members that would enjoy the burden of getting rid of all the stuff we collect ? I cherish some of the toys and models I've saved since I was a kid....my family could care less  :crying:

A local Mopar friend passed away a couple years ago unexpectedly. I've mentioned him before here as I bought his car trailer from his widow last year. His wife is having health issues too. The two kids are both young parents.
In the meantime his hemi cuda and T/A were sitting gathering dust in his garage, and still are there as far as I know. And his 71 Challenger convertible project was at a body shop.
He was 70, retired a few years, going strong when he had a brain aneurysm.
I've got my cars, some of my late fathers rare gun collection, some rare parts stashed away, various other vintage items. It's tough wanting things to go to good caretakers when you're gone or have Alzheimer's or something but how to assure that when you're still in decent health to make those decisions?

I didn`t watch the video but it sounds like it`s not very clear who actually owns the car now, maybe if they explained it better there would not be any speculation?

Quote from: JH27N0B on April 15, 2023, 05:52:05 PM
A local Mopar friend passed away a couple years ago unexpectedly. I've mentioned him before here as I bought his car trailer from his widow last year. His wife is having health issues too. The two kids are both young parents.
In the meantime his hemi cuda and T/A were sitting gathering dust in his garage, and still are there as far as I know. And his 71 Challenger convertible project was at a body shop.
He was 70, retired a few years, going strong when he had a brain aneurysm.
I've got my cars, some of my late fathers rare gun collection, some rare parts stashed away, various other vintage items. It's tough wanting things to go to good caretakers when you're gone or have Alzheimer's or something but how to assure that when you're still in decent health to make those decisions?

I heard he passed away.  Miss seeing him at the car shows.

Quote from: anlauto on April 15, 2023, 05:31:41 PM
You bring up a good point....how many of us here are getting up there closer to death and have really no interested family members that would enjoy the burden of getting rid of all the stuff we collect ? I cherish some of the toys and models I've saved since I was a kid....my family could care less  :crying:

My children have no interest in my cars or memorabilia. I have sent emails to my daughter, one for each vehicle, detailing the vehicle, what I know about it's history, it's value and options for selling. I've also mentioned a couple people to contact to assist with this who would be in the know about this stuff. My purpose was to make things easier for my kids rather than any concern for the cars themselves.

My dad had made up detailed list of what my mom should do with his gun collection when he passed including a trusted friend and fellow collector who could help sort them and should get first dibs on ones he wanted. He indicated what auction house he wanted used, as he didn't trust a large vintage gun auction house here in Illinois.
He even made up and inventory with estimated values.
The one thing he didn't provide was a good idea where the combination to his big safe was! We ended up having to hire a safecracker to open it!  :haha:  A sheet with the combination turned up several months later.  :headbang:
Planning for one's demise is a tough chore, but one's family can be really be put in a dilemma if someone hasn't done that chore.  It's even tougher for single people like me and apparently the RTS cuda owner as we want our things to go to good caretakers but not having family we care about to think about.

I'm constantly dreaming of finding an R code in a garage that no one cares about any longer due to life's standard circumstances.  Dream, dream, dream. 
It must have been cool to be involved in bringing this car back into the light. 

Sure would be cool to see it running and driving someday!  :fingerscrossed:

Was nice to get the details of its existence.
All our beloved projects end up down the same path.
New owners who may end up with them can never "own" them with the same depth of pride as the originators. Or in this instance, early owner when it was still fresh.

Quote from: Brads70 on April 16, 2023, 10:41:25 AM
Sure would be cool to see it running and driving someday!  :fingerscrossed:

I believe Mecum is working on that as we speak.  The car was legit "running when parked" in 76.

Raise your hand if you'd rather own this thing over a regular "R" code Cuda with a 4 speed.  Let's make it equal ...the latter is also unrestored and has been parked since 1976.  Be honest! : )

That would be a tough choice, there are other Hemicudas but only one RTS `cuda. At least I could drive the Hemi car around but I`d too afraid to drive the RTS on the street and that`s IF you could even make it street legal.

I thought the RTS Cuda had a blower on it ... or was that the Sonic Cuda??


I was at the 2019 Mecum Indy auction when the other RTS cars were auctioned off. I thought for sure that the enigmatic Brothers would have bought all of them to keep them together. To my surprise they only bought the Duster. God knows they have the resources to have bought them all if they had wanted to. I can't remember if the other two went to the same buyer, or if they were split up between two different buyers? It would take a lot of coordination to try and get them all back together for a display somewhere ...


"He would rather have burned it then to have sold it to Steven ..."  :unbelievable:  Well, I guess that pretty much explains why it was never reunited with the other three in Steven's care!!


I'm not a lawyer, but for estate planning I can't think of a better way to determine where your stuff goes after you die than a trust. With a trust, whatever is in the trust is predetermined by you as to where it goes ... not by a bunch of bickering plaintiffs with lawyers, and a judge, in a probate court.

The sonic cuda had a blower on it.  It was also designed by Chuck Miller and has many similarities to the RTS cuda like the front end.
As far as I know, the Sonic Cuda hasn't been seen in many years and no one knows what happened to it?
The RTS Duster got sold to the Brothers collection at Mecum Indy, and the two roadrunners I heard got sold to a collector in NJ.
I don't know much about the NJ collector except what I've heard 3rd or 4th or 5th hand.  Someone named Howie or Howard, who also bought the Diamante from Juliano before he died.  He isn't known to display any of his collection at shows.

Quote from: TA/Z06/GSXR1100 on April 17, 2023, 11:24:34 AM
Raise your hand if you'd rather own this thing over a regular "R" code Cuda with a 4 speed.  Let's make it equal ...the latter is also unrestored and has been parked since 1976.  Be honest! : )

Funny you mention that, I found a Hemi 'Cuda sitting since 1976 also in Detroit.  Still has the bicentennial plates on it.

And yes, the Duster went to The Brother's Collection, and both of the Road Runners went to New Jersey.

Now there is only two missing RTS cars.  The 70 GTX and Don Prudhomme funny car twin.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/371/32499177521_73aa2014e8_c.jpg)

Quote from: TA/Z06/GSXR1100 on April 17, 2023, 11:24:34 AM
Raise your hand if you'd rather own this thing over a regular "R" code Cuda with a 4 speed.  Let's make it equal ...the latter is also unrestored and has been parked since 1976.  Be honest! : )

The RTS car is unique ... but without hesitation I'd take the HemiCuda!! :yes:

You have to wonder in what world was it smart to split the three cars up... :drunk: I'm sure The Brothers" could have out-bid anybody who tried ... :bigmoney: they deserve to ALL be together  :grouphug:

I'll take the regular "R" code. I don't particularly like the RTS 'cuda. If that car didn't have the history....the factory connection....most people (I think) would say "why did they do that to a 'cuda?" Should have left it original....right Alan?

LOL.....I was refraining from saying it should be restored back to stock  :pokeeye: :pokeeye: :haha:

Quote from: anlauto on April 17, 2023, 07:42:47 PM
LOL.....I was refraining from saying it should be restored back to stock  :pokeeye: :pokeeye: :haha:

As it was a factory sponsored build.
It already is stock... :pokeeye:

Quote from: anlauto on April 17, 2023, 03:26:36 PM
You have to wonder in what world was it smart to split the three cars up... :drunk: I'm sure The Brothers" could have out-bid anybody who tried ... :bigmoney: they deserve to ALL be together  :grouphug:

What difference does it make if they are together or not if they are just stashed away in some private collection(s) never to be seen?

Can't the brothers collection be viewed? 

I'm pretty sure the Brothers collection isn't open to the public, but they seem to have a lot of visitors.  They must host club events or open house days and the like.

Quote from: TheAutoArchaeologist on April 17, 2023, 08:19:59 AM

Quote from: Brads70 on April 16, 2023, 10:41:25 AM
Sure would be cool to see it running and driving someday!  :fingerscrossed:

I believe Mecum is working on that as we speak.  The car was legit "running when parked" in 76.

Mecum  did horrors to Steve Julianos' cars driving them for videos. Steve's cars werent built to be driven, but show pieces. the engine blew in one of his cobras and his daughter had to foot the bill for that, plus the car brought alot less on the block as it was towed theu because the engine wasnt repaired yet. The other cars had no miles on them since restoration with the exception of driving on and off trailers. when you build them like Steve did, with the rarity, quality and value of parts and all had original tires from the year the car was built (not meant to be driven on at speed!)on the cars, he looked at them as showpieces of art, not drivers. I hope they do better with the RTS cuda

I'm pretty sure Steve said that he had seen the car at 1 point or at least spoken to the owner in regards to the  strap marks on tops of the fenders/quarter panels when he looked in the garage of tony (long last name  i thought starting with an F iirc). he offered a new mercedes, alot of $$$ or for the owner to name a price.
Steve also had conversations with the owners son, but the son and father werent on good terms and he couldnt get anything done in regards to buying the car. apparently they still werent on good terms as the owners belongings went to an estate type of sale, not his offspring.

and as far as a million dollars as some have said.
consider this.
the rapid transit 70 hemi road runner  hammered for $305k,
the rapid transit 71 383 road runner hammered for $215k,
the rapid transit duster hammered for $240k (probaly more because it was the last of the 3 auctioned off and the winning party lost the first 2 and wasnt planning on losing the 3rd)

the big collectors werent interested because they didnt have any comparables to gauge by, and cars are the same as real estate to them, the last known price is the gauge. well, there werent any comps prior.
i feel they all undersold for what they are and represent.

so, is a 6bbl cuda worth about what a 1970 hemi road runner is?
i'd say pretty close.
granted, that was 4 years ago,

I was surprised the other ones didn`t go for more than they did  but I don`t see the RTS `cuda going for too much more.   :notsure:

Thank you @TONY (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/tony_147) for you insight, it's always a pleasure  :worship: :drinkingbud:

Quote from: JH27N0B on May 11, 2023, 11:14:29 AM
I figured I can't miss Indy as it might be the only time I will ever get to see the RTS cuda!
Or it may end up at MCACN in November.  Time will tell.
But if the guy in NJ who bought the 2 RTS roadrunners and who owns the Diamante ends up buying it, I would bet it won't be seen again in public.

He did not have any interest in the car, as of the last time I heard from him.

I'll be there Friday for the RTS as well.

If anyone wants pictures of the car, I took a few hundred I can share.

Ryan I would absolutely love to see any and all pictures you would share.
Pm me and I will gladly send along my email.

Tomorrow the Black Ghost and the RTS 'Cuda are going through Mecum.  Looking like the afternoon.

WOW 2.2 million...did NOT see that coming, why soooo much compared to the others ????? :drunk: :drunk: :drunk:

Do we know who bought it ?

That must be for the RTS car @anlauto (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/anlauto_19) How much did the black ghost go for?

Quote from: TheAutoArchaeologist on May 19, 2023, 09:01:08 PM
Yes, the new owner is known.  He's out of California.  It is not Jay Leno.

Wade?,...I hope.   :lurking:

Quote from: cuda hunter on May 19, 2023, 09:04:15 PM
Will this known person put this cuda in a private collection to never be seen again?

I'm hoping someone reproduces it in 1/18 so I can have one in my collection!  :D

Somebody should release all of the RTS cars in diecast!

Quote from: TheAutoArchaeologist on May 19, 2023, 09:01:08 PM
Yes, the new owner is known.  He's out of California.  It is not Jay Leno.

Well if he's "known" Ryan.....then let us know who he is.....LOL

Quote from: anlauto on May 20, 2023, 08:10:04 AM

Quote from: TheAutoArchaeologist on May 19, 2023, 09:01:08 PM
Yes, the new owner is known.  He's out of California.  It is not Jay Leno.

Well if he's "known" Ryan.....then let us know who he is.....LOL

It is not my place to say, if he wants to come forward publicly, then he'll do it.

Quote from: TheAutoArchaeologist on May 20, 2023, 08:54:18 AM

Quote from: anlauto on May 20, 2023, 08:10:04 AM

Quote from: TheAutoArchaeologist on May 19, 2023, 09:01:08 PM
Yes, the new owner is known.  He's out of California.  It is not Jay Leno.

Well if he's "known" Ryan.....then let us know who he is.....LOL

It is not my place to say, if he wants to come forward publicly, then he'll do it.

That's fair enough.....can you tell us who is "NOT" ?
You said not Jay Leno, was it The Brother's Collection ?
Was it Tim Welborn ?

Quote from: anlauto on May 20, 2023, 10:57:18 AM

Quote from: TheAutoArchaeologist on May 20, 2023, 08:54:18 AM

Quote from: anlauto on May 20, 2023, 08:10:04 AM

Quote from: TheAutoArchaeologist on May 19, 2023, 09:01:08 PM
Yes, the new owner is known.  He's out of California.  It is not Jay Leno.

Well if he's "known" Ryan.....then let us know who he is.....LOL

It is not my place to say, if he wants to come forward publicly, then he'll do it.

That's fair enough.....can you tell us who is "NOT" ?
You said not Jay Leno, was it The Brother's Collection ?
Was it Tim Welborn ?

No, I can say that is is a collector from Los Angeles. 

 :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: alright...I'm sure the info will be out there soon enough  :drinkingbud:

Quote from: cuda hunter on May 19, 2023, 08:58:53 PM
Cuda's are better than any other classic car on the market.

Well..... one of the best two.... I'll give you "best Plymouth"...... :pokeeye:

Quote from: anlauto on May 20, 2023, 01:19:39 PM
:haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: alright...I'm sure the info will be out there soon enough  :drinkingbud:

It will, I know the owner plans to share that he owns the car here shortly. 

Great car. I still wish Juliano had been able to acquire it so they all could have been together even if only temporarily. I think this is the only one that doesn't have to be restored though?

Quote from: RUNCHARGER on May 22, 2023, 07:52:13 AM
Great car. I still wish Juliano had been able to acquire it so they all could have been together even if only temporarily. I think this is the only one that doesn't have to be restored though?

No, the 71 RTS RR is original except for some mechanical work.

And what if all the RTS cars came together at an indoor car show.  That would be cool.  I know I would really like to see that.

Quote from: TheAutoArchaeologist on May 22, 2023, 09:06:40 AM

Quote from: RUNCHARGER on May 22, 2023, 07:52:13 AM
Great car. I still wish Juliano had been able to acquire it so they all could have been together even if only temporarily. I think this is the only one that doesn't have to be restored though?

No, the 71 RTS RR is original except for some mechanical work.

And what if all the RTS cars came together at an indoor car show.  That would be cool.  I know I would really like to see that.

Might as well throw in the Snake & Mongoose funny cars too :twothumbsup:

Welp that didn't last long.....

GOOD NEWS EVERYONE!

The new owner of the RTS 'Cuda, Evan Metropoulos of the Only Original Once car collection, is going to be showing the car at MCACN 2023, November 18th and 19th.  Come check it out and say hi.  You know where I will be.

www.mcacn.com

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52911264520_bec53e6b47_b.jpg)

Quick Google search shows his a big Corvette guy..... :twothumbsup:  What's with all these Chevy guys wanting to be cool ? :haha: :haha:

That would be awesome if they could all come together for a show.

Perhaps Carlisle?   



That car is so freakin awesome!!! I just love it.  Looks so cool. 

i need to go back to MCACN !!!!  :yes: