https://www.foxnews.com/auto/dodge-hellcat-v8s-discontinued-2023-government-fines
Sad to see it go away.
Terry W.
Dodge was paying fines for the engine, yet they said it can meet emissions standards?
Any word on the SRT 6.4 motors and truck motors? those are pretty high output too
Get ready for your EV. Terrible Terrible news.
Electric vehicles are going to ruin this country. Infrastructure can not handle it.
Oh wait! We have an infrastructure plan that is going to save the day.
Seriously, Ford says no more gas motors past 2029. Now dodge is getting out of gas engines.
Has no one seen the people in California not able to run their air conditioners due to simple overload?
Not that the state is the only one. Prepare yourselves brothers. This is bigger than just changing engines.
China is doing to us what we did to the ussr. This will be disastrous for our country.
Quote from: cuda hunter on November 23, 2021, 08:13:38 AM
Get ready for your EV. Terrible Terrible news.
Electric vehicles are going to ruin this country. Infrastructure can not handle it.
Oh wait! We have an infrastructure plan that is going to save the day.
Seriously, Ford says no more gas motors past 2029. Now dodge is getting out of gas engines.
Has no one seen the people in California not able to run their air conditioners due to simple overload?
Not that the state is the only one. Prepare yourselves brothers. This is bigger than just changing engines.
China is doing to us what we did to the ussr. This will be disastrous for our country.
I'm not understanding what China has to do with this? Aren't we doing this to ourselves??? :notsure:
Will be interesting to see what this does to Hellcat prices over the next few years.
Quote from: DeathProofCuda on November 23, 2021, 09:48:32 AM
Quote from: cuda hunter on November 23, 2021, 08:13:38 AM
Get ready for your EV. Terrible Terrible news.
Electric vehicles are going to ruin this country. Infrastructure can not handle it.
Oh wait! We have an infrastructure plan that is going to save the day.
Seriously, Ford says no more gas motors past 2029. Now dodge is getting out of gas engines.
Has no one seen the people in California not able to run their air conditioners due to simple overload?
Not that the state is the only one. Prepare yourselves brothers. This is bigger than just changing engines.
China is doing to us what we did to the ussr. This will be disastrous for our country.
I'm not understanding what China has to do with this? Aren't we doing this to ourselves??? :notsure:
Yea, I don't see China writing our legislations to push for "green energy" This is coming from our own politicians.
Also, I don't quite agree with the complete doom and gloom outlook. The electricity to charge a vehicle is cheaper than the gasoline to run the engine. Especially if you have access to your own solar panels or wind energy. While I do agree that there are rolling brown-outs during peak demand periods, I also don't foresee electric vehicles from negatively impacting the grid. The brown-outs are usually in the daytime, when the sun is the hottest, and AC is working the hardest. Most electric vehicle owners are going to be plugging in overnight when the heat of the day has subsided and there's less draw from AC trying to cool things down. Also, with 220v or even 480 if you can get it; charge times are fairly quick. Couple hours at most. This means you can put your charger on a timer to charge your vehicle between midnight and 5 am when everyone is asleep, not watching TV, lights in the house are off, etc.
Electric motors are way more efficient than gasoline. There is not "sweet spot" or powerband on an electric motor. They make maximum torque at 0 RPM and maintain that through the entire RPM range.
Are electric vehicles going to be the end-all cure to global warming? No. Not by a long shot.
Are electric vehicles going to be a viable alternative or even supplement to gasoline vehicles? Absolutely.
We as a family are doing the cost analysis now to decide if we want to buy one to add to our fleet. We will always maintain at least 1 vehicle with an internal combustion engine for those once every 100 years natural disaster where power is out for several days.
But, to avoid turning this into a debate on electric vehicles... Again, what fines was Dodge paying for an engine that allegedly meets emissions standards?
I'm not understanding what China has to do with this? Aren't we doing this to ourselves??? :notsure:
[/quote]
China is buying up many of the Cobalt mines which is used in the production of electric vehicles. With gas engines unavailable and EVs beyond the price we can afford, we will be at the whim of China and our own government. I don't want to get political but that is the connection I see. Note the last paragraph in the attached article.
https://www.republicworld.com/world-news/us-news/hunter-bidens-firm-helped-china-get-control-over-vast-cobalt-mine-in-africa-report.html
Terry W.
I'm no EV proponent, but personally I've always been a bit surprised that the present-day IC horsepower war lasted as long as it did. We'll get what, a good 15 year run out of the modern-day Challengers? Three times longer than their original run. I never really imagined that the market for 700+ horsepower cars was that big, but what do I know? I live in a place where everyone has traded in their gas guzzling Prius for a Tesla. :drunk:
https://moparinsiders.com/here-is-what-we-know-about-the-next-dodge-charger-challenger/
Interesting read.
We'll see what happens.
https://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/threads/dodge-will-phase-out-gas-powered-charger-and-challenger-in-2024-to-make-way-for-evs.505226/
Here is a decent read also. If you want to see opinions of 50 plus people anyway.
As a poster said above, it's been a substantial run for these cars with 8-9 years out of a 700+ HP car. I drive a Hellcat daily and I'm surprised how many of these monsters are out there as daily drivers.
At least with the EV cars, it's not a step down in performance like it was in the early seventies when the HP wars ended.
sky's not falling.
With gas at $4.00/gall +, we all could use more efficient powerplants.
I'm all for hybrids getting 50MPG and 500+ HP.
The power needed to charge EVs is small when compare to going carbon neutral. Many local jurisdictions in CA is pushing to eliminate the burning of natural gas for space heating, cooking, drying your clothes. All new residential buildings will be all electric. Will be interesting how quickly the utilities can add to distribution infrastructure.
Quote from: DeathProofCuda on November 23, 2021, 09:48:32 AM
Quote from: cuda hunter on November 23, 2021, 08:13:38 AM
Get ready for your EV. Terrible Terrible news.
Electric vehicles are going to ruin this country. Infrastructure can not handle it.
Oh wait! We have an infrastructure plan that is going to save the day.
Seriously, Ford says no more gas motors past 2029. Now dodge is getting out of gas engines.
Has no one seen the people in California not able to run their air conditioners due to simple overload?
Not that the state is the only one. Prepare yourselves brothers. This is bigger than just changing engines.
China is doing to us what we did to the ussr. This will be disastrous for our country.
I'm not understanding what China has to do with this? Aren't we doing this to ourselves??? :notsure:
Senator John Kerry uses China labor to produce his solar panels, one would say he is closely benefiting from using slave labor for green energy.
If you want to get all tin foil hat about this, I think that's the only reason why some of these people are pushing for these green agendas, they have money to gain by doing so
Quote from: 7212Mopar on November 23, 2021, 08:21:14 PM
Many local jurisdictions in CA is pushing to eliminate the burning of natural gas for space heating, cooking, drying your clothes.
I am against the government forcing us into 1 kind of energy. Electric to heat your house, dryer, water, etc is typically MORE expensive than using propane or natural gas. All of them are more expensive than using wood to heat your house if you have the physical ability to go cut, split and stack your own firewood.
That's the thing about "Green energy" If done right, it puts 'Green' into your pocket by saving you money. Reduce your electric bill by supplementing it with solar or wind. Reduce your fuel bill by adding 1 electric vehicle to your fleet. Reduce total energy consumption by having a well insulated house with high efficiency windows, doors, appliances, switching to LED lighting, etc.
When the government says "you must use this type of energy for ____________" that's when you need to question it, and resist it. When the technology advances enough to lower the cost of higher efficiency sources of energy, or the benefit from the new technology is so high, then people will WANT it, and not be forced into it.
The use of whale oil or kerosene lighting wasn't forced out by the government. The lightbulb was so good, everyone wanted to switch
Dont worry about the electric infrastructure not being there for electric vehicles!! Our electric infrastructure today is light years ahead of what the gasoline infrastructure was in 1908 when Ford brought out the model T.
Regarding the fines paid by Chrysler for the Hellcat engine, it isnt because of pollution, instead its a gas guzzler tax !!
The price of electric vehicles will come down, when the producers quit giving it to us in only HIGH END vehicles and they have started to do that. Back in 2007 the Hybrid option for a Camry would cost about $7,000 more than a standard Camry SE...but that was only because it was only available in the top-of-the-line model. Today a loaded Camry SE starts at $27,535 and a Camry SE Hybrid starts at $28,915 only about $1,500 more and you can even get the hybrid option in the base Camry LE. I imagine that when car makers switch to an all electric Camry it will be about the same...i.e about $1-$2,000 more and will save way more than that in fuel costs over its lifetime.
You know what i will miss the most ? The sound !!! My 74 Challenger which i will keep until i'm dead, makes the most exhilarating sound with its stroked 360 and flowmaster 40 mufflers. I drove it in the Raleigh Xmas parade last saturday and the spectators would yell..."rev it up" and then applauded when i gunned it !! Dodge says there will be plenty of sound with their coming electric muscle cars. I cant wait !!
What I am waiting for is to see how the governments are going to pay for new roads. Up here in Canada 1/2 the cost of gas is taxes that is used to pay for new roads, bridges etc... If you think about it the electric car is not paying its fair share for using the roads, but that will change I'm sure. People are comparing the cost of both types of vehicles but right now its not a fair comparision. Electric vehicles will get more expensive to drive based on todays numbers.
Coincidentally, I just ordered my Hellcrate engine yesterday. Glad I did since I'm sure there will be clowns panic buying and driving up prices on them and creating a shortage that wasn't there just like we've seen in the last year with ammo, toilet paper, dust masks, and nitrile gloves.
I don't believe CA will force folks away from natural gas as it's a viable bridge to go from petroleum to electric over a number of years. NatGas puts off 1/2 the CO2 that regular gas does.
This totally reminds me of a scene from Oh Brother! (Progress....)
Starts at 53 seconds
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RTPdAAdw30
As mentioned above, gasoline is moderately to heavily taxed and is a source of income for governments. Where's that shortfall going to be made up from? :bigmoney:
time to order up big and stash away for later!
The oil companies are just cutting their own throats. The best way to get people to drive electric cars is to keep raising gas prices. Every time the price of gas makes a big jump people start looking at EVs. With the cost of an EV coming down, the choice of EVs going up and the battery technology getting better it's only a matter of time before the vast majority of people drive an EV. You can fight technology all you want but you can't stop it. But you can make it work for you. I'll bet the guy that owned a few horses was calling Henry Ford every name in the book when he saw his first Model T drive by.
Quote from: HP_Cuda on November 24, 2021, 01:26:04 PM
I don't believe CA will force folks away from natural gas as it's a viable bridge to go from petroleum to electric over a number of years. NatGas puts off 1/2 the CO2 that regular gas does.
This totally reminds me of a scene from Oh Brother! (Progress....)
Starts at 53 seconds
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RTPdAAdw30
This is California. Like it or not, it is currently under review by the California Building Standard Commission to be incorporated in the State's 2023 Building Code. Not yet a reality but a very high possibility. We have Gavin in the State Capital. SF and Berkeley already have the ordinances in place. The problem is using heat pumps for space heating and domestic water heating add a big load on the electrical grid. It is same as adding air conditioners. Places with mild climates like SF that most residential buildings don't have AC units will now change. Just wait and see how this all comes down. I do agree with most that the Green movement is money motivated. If you can't beat them, join them.
I don't want to get lost in the politics of things but seem some of you already touched upon it. Same situation or even worse here in Europe. Cars are untouched but we have a political proposal to ban sales of fossil fuel from 2040. Enviromentalists wants it sooner, most doesn't want it att all but can it be avoided? We already pay close to $8/gallon and prise will increase to phase out fuel sooner, already from 2030, according same proposals. Gives us a good 8 year to enjoy the hobby in worst case. What are we doing then with all the mopars? We can always restore them over and over waiting for the climate change not to happen and things go back to normal :) Will this affect the prices of our cars, and are they still good investments? :dunno:
When 'they' ban the sale of gasoline (if we ever get that far with this craziness) I know how to make my own biofuel, so I will at least be able to keep a classic toy fed well enough for play time.
Some of you touched on electric vehicles and fuel tax for roads. Ohio's last gas tax hike bill included a higher annual registration fee for electric vehicles to offset the taxes they don't pay in gas.
I'd have to look it up but it was only like $100. I cry foul at that. I pay $100 in state fuel tax every month.
Quote from: Mopsquad on November 24, 2021, 01:41:40 PM
As mentioned above, gasoline is moderately to heavily taxed and is a source of income for governments. Where's that shortfall going to be made up from? :bigmoney:
One way I have heard thrown out is to charge per miles driven, which would actually make sense. For those states that have inspections they probably already have access to mileage and for those that don't they will come up with something.
Quote from: 70vert on November 25, 2021, 07:30:27 PM
@chargerdon (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/chargerdon_451) "Regarding the fines paid by Chrysler for the Hellcat engine, it isn't because of pollution, instead its a gas guzzler tax !!"
The gas guzzler tax is on the window sticker so paid by the buyer not Chrysler. Unless that is just a portion of it.
Ultimately
every cost is paid by the buyer. Some direct some indirect. Chrysler no longer makes any compact vehicles so i'll bet they are not meeting the CAFE requirements and are paying fines for that...and that doesn't show up on the window sticker, but, every cost is eventually paid by the consumer. Similarly our government provides us with services. Those include building roads, schools, police forces, protecting us with our military, etc. All of those services are costs that are paid for with tax dollars, and they will find ways to collect enough to provide us with those services, and to pay for their ridiculously high salaries !!
Ultimately we will all be driving Electric Vehicles because not only do they not pollute as much as gas vehicles and global warming is REAL, but they will eventually be less expensive to us the consumer. Why, its simple math...when our IC vehicles create power by burning fossil fuels a huge portion of the energy is wasted as heat that our radiators have to remove !! Other than warming us in the winter that is all wasted !! Creation of energy is way more efficient in an electric power plant where the heat that is created is turned into energy.