Since last Spring, I have been seeing more and more effort to kick the engine over once it's sat for a while.
It's 60-70 degrees on average most of the time.
While cranking cold; its like it locks up sounding.
It's a true Mopar Big block starter. And NO...Will I go get a mini starter.
Battery was put on an excellent NOCO 7.2 AGM charger prior to another attempt.
Still happened.
Yet when warm, easy to start right up.
So is it connections?
Or...Time to rebuild?
Usually it is harder to start hot than cold
Could be either , connections & cables would be the first place I would be checking as it is an easier fix than pulling the starter
Quote from: Chryco Psycho on November 24, 2019, 05:45:28 PM
Usually it is harder to start hot than cold
Could be either , connections & cables would be the first place I would be checking as it is an easier fix than pulling the starter
Everything is still very new.
But I will re check all connections.
The starter is a first generation Powermaster.
That is when they used OEM big block starters and just re built them.
my experience with Powermaster parts has never been good :alan2cents:
You can quickly diagnose any earth issues buy running a temporary starter/jumper lead from negative on your battery to the body of your starter, if it improves cranking you have a bad earth somewhere.
You can apply the same process on the positive side going from the starter solenoid post to the positive terminal on the battery but lots of care must be taken not to short anything. I disconnect the battery when I do the positive side and don't re-connect until I am 100% sure its not going to move or short out once you start test cranking.
On another note, is there a chance you have too much initial timing causing it to kick back?
Quote from: redgum78 on November 24, 2019, 10:49:39 PM
You can quickly diagnose any earth issues buy running a temporary starter/jumper lead from negative on your battery to the body of your starter, if it improves cranking you have a bad earth somewhere.
You can apply the same process on the positive side going from the starter solenoid post to the positive terminal on the battery but lots of care must be taken not to short anything. I disconnect the battery when I do the positive side and don't re-connect until I am 100% sure its not going to move or short out once you start test cranking.
On another note, is there a chance you have too much initial timing causing it to kick back?
Thanks,
Timing is spot on.
Engine starts immediately once fuel and starter is all working normally.
Fully heated.
Quote from: Chryco Psycho on November 24, 2019, 08:14:28 PM
my experience with Powermaster parts has never been good :alan2cents:
It's an OEM starter.
Not really much to revise or re create or modify.
In a nutshell this is a 440/6, 426 Hemi starter just like what was made in 1970.
Unless they coated the contact ring with clear coat , I have seen this or other incorrect practices I have seen in simple rebuilds
Like CP says, kinda the opposite of what usually happens. :thinking:
You say it is happening more often. So it starts normally when cold most of the time?
Ensure you negative connection block to battery is electrically clean and tight.
Then, If it were me I would move on to the connections at the start relay. On mine there is a couple of ring terminals stacked. So I would take them off and ensure there is a good clean electrical connection. I would do the same with the starter connections. I would flex the #4 gauge starter wire and make sure it is pliable. If it feels stiff, it may be breaking down internally. You say it is new so I doubt it is the problem, but you need to check everything. Inspect the battery cable connectors at the battery. Check the yellow wire from the relay to ign sw. Make sure the B/H connection is good and clean. I might take a look at the column connector to ensure the yellow wire is fully seated.
If everything checks out fine, I would swap out the start relay. Because it is easier and cheaper than the starter and I can't think of a logical way to determine which it would be when the suspected part is kinda working, kinda not.
Good luck!
I'm wondering if the grease they used to lube the starter isn't bad...
I've seen the wrong type grease used on a few things that broke down & became a gum-like substance...
back off on initial timing, to see if it helps.
Make sure a big ground from engine to body.
I use 00 gauge.
vapor lock. fuel lines getting hot. Have a heat shield on carb.
phenolic spacer.
Put a volt meter on the battery terminals when cranking. Old school, after 10 seconds cranking you should see the battery drift down to 10.5V and recover after. If you do not see the battery drop much when you are cranking, you should chase the GND and 12V connection down to the starter. You have too much resistance in the circuit. If the battery terminals drop too low while cranking, battery is sulfated or you have a short in the starter winding. Looks like the manuals on this site have a good troubleshooting guide for starting circuit.
I had the same issue with my '70 Cuda 440. Started fine when warm but had to crank the crap out of when cold to get it to start. Ended up I needed a better ground than just the negative wire going to the head. Added another ground strap and haven't had a issue since. Fires up hot or cold. I think I had too much new paint on engine grounding points to the frame, like K frame, etc.
Make sure 4 corner idle screws are set properly.
I pump it 3 times, then wait a minute so gas vapors can
expand into the intake and whatever intake valves may be open.
Also, for my M1 intake, if really cold, will put a hair dryer blowing under
intake for 5 minutes. Put rag at back of intake so hot air will stay under
intake. CAREFUL, EASY TO FORGET TO NOT REMOVE RAG. CAN START A FIRE
WITH HEADERS NEARBY.
Again, the warmer intake just means you vaporize the gas better at is hits the intake floor.
I have a 66 charger with 383 and factory starter. When it sits for a few days, and i go to start...it cranks VERY slow for first second or two and then cranks better. Even if i fully charge the battery.
The cable that goes to the starter is held on with clamp. Saw that the bare wires had some heavy "not green" corrosion but weren't real clean either. Cut off the 1/2 inch and then stripped back and put back on with some battery lead spay, and problem gone. What confused me is if it was just that wire getting dirty looking, then why after a few seconds of cranking did it crank faster?
Quote from: chargerdon on December 03, 2019, 07:58:39 AM
I have a 66 charger with 383 and factory starter. When it sits for a few days, and i go to start...it cranks VERY slow for first second or two and then cranks better. Even if i fully charge the battery.
The cable that goes to the starter is held on with clamp. Saw that the bare wires had some heavy "not green" corrosion but weren't real clean either. Cut off the 1/2 inch and then stripped back and put back on with some battery lead spay, and problem gone. What confused me is if it was just that wire getting dirty looking, then why after a few seconds of cranking did it crank faster?
Quote from: Chryco Psycho on November 24, 2019, 05:45:28 PM
Usually it is harder to start hot than cold
Could be either , connections & cables would be the first place I would be checking as it is an easier fix than pulling the starter
Quote from: cudabob496 on November 27, 2019, 09:57:22 PM
back off on initial timing, to see if it helps.
Make sure a big ground from engine to body.
I use 00 gauge.
vapor lock. fuel lines getting hot. Have a heat shield on carb.
phenolic spacer.
I'm suspecting to look at the connections on the relay and the Solenoid connections first. Then check grounds.