Been going to a few car shows and I notice less and less people. I also noticed prices are sky high, cars that used to be 25-40 are now 50-75. Who's buying ? I mean are the cars really selling that high? Oh and gas prices just went up lol
Where do you think this is going ?
Is the hobby dying out ?
I do see some younger folks driving the older muscle cars. The higher prices are appreciation and inflation. More parts are becoming available than before. The world is moving to electric. So no body knows. I don't think it is going away any time soon.
I don't think the hobby is going away but it is evolving. I think it's fading for the crowd that gets excited by the late 50s cars and in it's prime for the mid 60s to mid 70s crowd. Some time, in 20 or 30 years, there will be a whole segment of auto enthusiasts that will be searching for their old jacked up pick up trucks in the same way as we looked for our old muscle cars. The value any given vehicle will flex accordingly. For now, I just plan to enjoy the ride, pun intended.
I don't know, but I think it is in danger. I don't think sky high prices are just inflation. It may seem like it but I doubt it. As a teenager, I could afford buying a challenger, tranny, 340 block, carbs, etc. What teenager can afford one today? I bought mine for $900 running. A couple years ago I saw a completely striped down Challenger that looked like it wen through a fire selling for over 10K. That isn't inflation, that is insanity.
I also look at our local club. It is all older dudes with a few exceptions. There are only a few people younger than me that show up and I'm 50. We put on a local show and the main guys are getting older and may not be around to coordinate for a lot longer. I'm not seeing enough younger folks replacing the older ones.
My concern would be that as all these cars get restored and the less than optimal cars get parted out and the bad ones rust all the way to the ground, there won't be enough of a market to keep making parts. I'm curious how older cars (older than ours) are doing on parts.
Luckily there does seem to be a continuing interest in muscle cars. I don't think any of us will quit any time soon so it may be safe for a while. But we may be past it's peak and it may only be dwindling down slowly.
Just thinking out loud
Pricewise, I've noticed normal appreciation of restored vehicles. Its been the price of projects that has really ballooned, at least locally. There are far fewer listings too. Its a good time to have a classic, not so good if you're looking to buy.
Quote from: blown motor on March 04, 2021, 10:02:57 AM
I don't think the hobby is going away but it is evolving. I think it's fading for the crowd that gets excited by the late 50s cars and in it's prime for the mid 60s to mid 70s crowd. Some time, in 20 or 30 years, there will be a whole segment of auto enthusiasts that will be searching for their old jacked up pick up trucks in the same way as we looked for our old muscle cars. The value any given vehicle will flex accordingly. For now, I just plan to enjoy the ride, pun intended.
I agree 10000% with this... :iagree: :worship:
My nephew wants my 2012 Challenger but my sister will kill me if I let him have it. My son has no interest on either of my Challengers. My wife said she get rid of both as soon as I hit the dirt. In the mean time, I will keep them and enjoy them. Not much you can do when you are not around.
Quote from: Purepony on March 04, 2021, 08:40:05 AM
I also noticed prices are sky high, cars that used to be 25-40 are now 50-75. Who's buying ?
With those numbers it's not a 'hobby' It's a rich mans game. I'm glad I got mine in a swap for a $400 rifle. I'd never buy an ebody now. I'd go buy a new car and end up saving money. So to me, the 'hobby' is dying fast.
Quote from: 7212Mopar on March 04, 2021, 12:42:48 PM
My nephew wants my 2012 Challenger but my sister will kill me if I let him have it. My son has no interest on either of my Challengers. My wife said she get rid of both as soon as I hit the dirt. In the mean time, I will keep them and enjoy them. Not much you can do when you are not around.
Make sure I'm contacted 😂. I'm only 33 so still have more classics to get in my lifetime.
Yes theses cars are getting more and more expensive to buy and harder to find. We will be seeing electric motor swap in classic cars. The mean problem i see in the hobby as a young man(32) alot of the older aren't too accepting of the younger generation so that turn alot of us away. I still goto car shows and to show the younger generation they can also own these cars also.
Always an interesting question of perspective. It appears long time muscle car enthusiasts own these cars along with new baby boomers whom always liked them from their earlier years and now that they have more discretionary funds they are buying the cars as well which has been inflating the prices....... some of which is hyped up by stock market increases.
So for now......... lets all continue to enjoy and share them for their wonder and beauty.
In the long run, maybe we will start doing electric conversions to them, won't that be something!
IMO...the higher prices we are seeing (for finished E-bodies) are being driven by the high cost of restoration. Start with a $10k project car then add $7.5k for engine, $10k bodywork, $10k paint, $5k parts, 500 (or so) assembly hours at $75/ hour...that's a cool $80k. I just finished my car and spent nearly $50k and I already had the car and did 85% of the assembly. Farmed out paint, bodywork, engine machining, and a few large sub assemblies. My car is worth about $50k if I decided to sell it. That is a pure definition of hobby.
The majority of E-body fans are either fast approaching 60 years old or already past 60. We grew up loving these cars. Most 60 year olds I know have more money than ever and are willing to pay reasonably high prices for things they love. Might as well buy it now before it's too late. :alan2cents:
Kids today are no different vs when I was getting my license in 04' or when you got yours; they demand what's cheap. Normally that would mean 80s-99 camaros, mustangs, imports. How many if those cars did cash-for-clunkers send to an early grave? Supply and demand.
I can't stand going to car shows because they're boring. I have friends that love to and love to get those trophies. I doubt when any of us were young our idea of a fun Saturday was sitting around staring at cars. This hobby is about living it as you see fit.
Billie Eilish drives a new Challenger, suddenly my 18YO daughter really wants to drive my 08 SRT! There is hope.
There is tons of Mustangs, -05 and up and new Challengers, in 10-20 years those will be cheap enough for the kids.
Early new Mustangs are already pretty cheap.
Like most of us older folks I have been into the hobby since the late 60's. We have lived through the ups and downs of the hobby. As we all learn that time catches up to us all. A lot of the above comments are true. The hobby is evolving. Back in the 60-70's they were everyday drivers. 80-90 were when people got tired of driving 4 cylinder puddle jumpers and started missing their beloved muscle cars. There were still plenty around and the demand started to increase and so did the prices. 2000's brought about the popularity from car auctions and people started seeing cars prices get crazy so more people jumped into the hobby. Later in the 2000's NOS parts started to dry up and their prices when crazy. Then original cars started to dry up so the clone craze started. $175.000 for a clone 70 or 71 Hemi Cuda. Then the Retro Resto's started with new age technology. All the baby boomers who grew up with these cars and bought them are now dying off. Look at how many MAJOR Collectors have passed in the last few years. Most Kids today don't have the finances to buy and restore a Mopar today let alone the ambition. If they have money they just go down to their local Dodge Dealer and by a new Challenger with all the creature comforts and modern technology. When did any of us old timers ever have a 700 HP car with Air Conditioning ?? I was lucky and bought my last two muscle cars in the early and mid 90's. Original Parts were still available and you could get all the body and paint work done for $4.000 to 6000.00 bucks. Now you pay that for materials. I think there will always be a market for the extremely high ends ( 6 and 7 figures) collector cars for the ultra rich collectors. I think most of the lower end cars (5 figures) will be around for awhile. They will be mostly passed down from Father to Son or grandson. I do not see kids today hunting down and buying-restoring cars. Who know what the Future will bring so if you got one DRIVE it and enjoy the hell out of it. If you are a young kid and want one but can't afford it then find an old guy who has one and who doesn't have any kids and make friends with him and maybe just maybe he will leave you his-HAHAHA.
JS27
I hope so. I see a lot of euro cars around here but mostly newer like m3s
I hope your right and I agree with the parts
I whole heartedly agree brother. That's what I was thinking .
It feels like it gets hot when a muscle car hits the screen but the prices just make everyone forget
Sorry but that's a crap out :bricks:
If that were me I'd will the cars to a true buddy so the wife don't get nothing and give the nephew the challenger since like you said you'll be gone anyway
Gran Torino style
Exactly !! Leave him both to piss off your son and your wife :banana:
That's not really a rich mans game
Mc laren, gt3, lambo, Ferrari 125k-10 million is a rich mans game
Quote from: anlauto on March 04, 2021, 10:35:45 AM
Quote from: blown motor on March 04, 2021, 10:02:57 AM
I don't think the hobby is going away but it is evolving. I think it's fading for the crowd that gets excited by the late 50s cars and in it's prime for the mid 60s to mid 70s crowd. Some time, in 20 or 30 years, there will be a whole segment of auto enthusiasts that will be searching for their old jacked up pick up trucks in the same way as we looked for our old muscle cars. The value any given vehicle will flex accordingly. For now, I just plan to enjoy the ride, pun intended.
I agree 10000% with this... :iagree: :worship:
I think with time everything evolves and just like Ham Radios, Photography in the late 70's and other trends (remember when 55 T-birds/Bel airs were hot) things change with time. I personally believe that when the money element of Auction houses and Classic car show rooms got hot earlier in this decade it did a disservice to this hobby. It made the buying experience painful in general and people got burned on over paying and bad purchases.
Now, I also believe that Covid quarantine and cheap money has raised prices in the last year. Combined with the refinance piggy bank mentality but that will soon end as well. resto shops will lose current demand, prices will come down and supply will increase as the population that owns these cars will pass away. In the end, the true loyalists will remain and good solid quality cars (no rust, nice restoration, original metal/motors) will stay at higher prices. I also think that cars in the over $ 100K range will lose demand and they will be placed in a much more palatable cost bracket. I don't plan to ever sell my cars so I have to think what will become of them when I am not here anymore. And that will bring the final question do I plan for keeping the hobby alive or will it even matter what happens to my cars since I won't be here to worry about it.
Sad but true
I too wonder what'll happen to my cars when I leave :stayinlane:
I am not to worried about my cars, It's just to bad I won't get to see the battle over who gets what. :yes:
Quote from: Rdchallenger on March 04, 2021, 05:25:24 PM
Quote from: 7212Mopar on March 04, 2021, 12:42:48 PM
My nephew wants my 2012 Challenger but my sister will kill me if I let him have it. My son has no interest on either of my Challengers. My wife said she get rid of both as soon as I hit the dirt. In the mean time, I will keep them and enjoy them. Not much you can do when you are not around.
Make sure I'm contacted 😂. I'm only 33 so still have more classics to get in my lifetime.
Sweet! I'm 35 and have wanted an E body since I was a kid. I think there are plenty of younger folks that would be into 70's muscle cars, but it's cost prohibitive for most. Think about why the older generations were into muscle cars in the first place. They were cool colors, made to go fast, and CHEAP! Kids today are not much different, they just have to find those qualities in cars of the 90's and 00's.
To bad cars aren't like vinyl, I have a collection of 1000 albums most bought before 1990 and mostly new so they have been kept well. Suddenly everyone 13-35 has a turntable and wants to be hip. I'm not selling, but I need to check with my insurance agent on how to insure them properly.
Listening to Aerosmith Toys in the Attic right now.
Quote from: Purepony on March 05, 2021, 09:39:07 AM
That's not really a rich mans game
Mc laren, gt3, lambo, Ferrari 125k-10 million is a rich mans game
Depends your idea of 'rich' I guess. To me, these cars are too expensive to be called a hobby by most people. You wanna hop into the ebody group nowadays? You need to be willing to buy almost junk for 10-15K and spend 50-150K fixing it. That's not a hobby..IMO....
Quote from: dodj on March 05, 2021, 04:19:17 PM
Quote from: Purepony on March 05, 2021, 09:39:07 AM
That's not really a rich mans game
Mc laren, gt3, lambo, Ferrari 125k-10 million is a rich mans game
Depends your idea of 'rich' I guess. To me, these cars are too expensive to be called a hobby by most people. You wanna hop into the ebody group nowadays? You need to be willing to buy almost junk for 10-15K and spend 50-150K fixing it. That's not a hobby..IMO....
Everything you say here is true; however, it seems to me that insane restoration prices are resulting in another evolution of the hobby, which is the more recent interest in driver condition and "ratty" musclecars. The younger crowd especially are not interested in trailer queens or numbers matching cars. They don't want to spend their weekends polishing their cars and sitting next to it in a lawn chair. They just love the styling of the cars and want to be able to drive the wheels off them like Freiburger and Dulcich are doing on "Roadkill Garage" or Dylan McCool is doing on his YouTube channel. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48Y_b_oBV6k
25 years ago when I bought my car the prices were pretty reasonable. Everyone wanted 70-71 cars and 72-74 cars were cheap. After I built the car I did the local car show scene for a few years. Car shows were more fun then. They had classes where e bodies competed against each other. Then the car shows changed where it became just a popularity contest between Mopar, Chevy and Ford cars of the same years. Now when I go to shows to just to look most of the cars are new Challengers and Corvettes. Even the local clubs are full of members with new cars. There's a limited number of these cars and people that can afford it will spend pretty much what ever it takes to buy them. Driving most young people out of the hobby. The cost of restoring the car is just way to high. When I did my car I did all the work myself. I would have had 3 times the money into it if I had to pay someone to do the work. The cost is just to high for most young people especially when they can go into any Dodge dealer and buy a new Challenger for less money.
Quote from: Joegrapes on March 05, 2021, 04:34:43 PM
The cost is just to high for most young people especially when they can go into any Dodge dealer and buy a new Challenger for less money.
And this is mainly why I call it tooo expensive to be a hobby anymore. Labour of love?...sure. But hobby? those days are dwindling.
Maybe it's because when I got my car I would drive down to the local scrap yard (recycle establishment...) and find parts for my 'hobby'.... for a few bucks and a box of donuts for the guys...
Quote from: Joegrapes on March 05, 2021, 04:34:43 PM
The cost is just to high for most young people especially when they can go into any Dodge dealer and buy a new Challenger for less money.
Last time I checked "new" Challengers weren't cheap either :dunno: Heck....my RAM lists at over $70K :unbelievable:
Quote from: anlauto on March 05, 2021, 05:49:29 PM
Quote from: Joegrapes on March 05, 2021, 04:34:43 PM
The cost is just to high for most young people especially when they can go into any Dodge dealer and buy a new Challenger for less money.
Last time I checked "new" Challengers weren't cheap either :dunno: Heck....my RAM lists at over $70K :unbelievable:
Hell I sold my Challenger SRT when I started my resto due to realizing how much it was going to cost. I also love the fact that when it's complete it's not just some car that anyone can go buy at a dealership.
Well let's see. Back in 1980 I thought this hobby was going to end. I also thought my God prices are crazy! A 1957 Chevy was around $ 9,000 for a fully restored car. And the Mopars were around from $2,000 to $10,000 . So if you add in inflation for the 40 years it comes out the same as 1980 dollars. I know it seems odd but it is the way the dollar goes up over the years. And to this day people are paying high prices for these cars. So the only problem with this hobby ending is when people quit buying these cars. My 2 cents .
Allen, there are a number of new 2021 Hemi Challenger R/T at the local Dodge dealer that sticker in 35k range. When was the last time you restored a car for a customer that had less that that in it? The hobby will always be here it's just that the cost has driven the younger people away. Same with Harley. Most young people who want to ride don't see the value in a Harley when they can buy a Japanese bike for way less and get better performance. Harley won't survive if they rely on us old farts to buy their bikes.
Quote from: Joegrapes on March 05, 2021, 09:12:48 PM
Allen, there are a number of new 2021 Hemi Challenger R/T at the local Dodge dealer that sticker in 35k range. When was the last time you restored a car for a customer that had less that that in it? The hobby will always be here it's just that the cost has driven the younger people away. Same with Harley. Most young people who want to ride don't see the value in a Harley when they can buy a Japanese bike for way less and get better performance. Harley won't survive if they rely on us old farts to buy their bikes.
I guess, maybe in the States..my wife's 2017 V6 Challenger was $42K CDN :dunno:
Quote from: anlauto on March 05, 2021, 05:49:29 PM
Quote from: Joegrapes on March 05, 2021, 04:34:43 PM
The cost is just to high for most young people especially when they can go into any Dodge dealer and buy a new Challenger for less money.
Last time I checked "new" Challengers weren't cheap either :dunno: Heck....my RAM lists at over $70K :unbelievable:
Picking up a new or almost new Challenger/Mustang under 50K is not hard. Picking up an ebody that would be called new or almost new for under 50K is not so easy.
Don't get me wrong, the old ones are way better looking, and they are special to have and drive each summer. Glad I got one. I'm just saying, to me, with the expense of them now, it's out of the realm of what I consider a hobby.
I agree: The old ones look so much better but the new ones are easy to find and you can drive them every day without tending to oil leaks, adjusting the clutch, carbs, poor radios and dealing with drum brakes. For me body shop costs and P-poor quality parts have taken a bit of the fun out the old ones. I won't own a car that I don't drive though, I see the hobby changing to collections that are looked at and not driven. The resto mod thing takes care of the driveability stuff but most of those cars become ornaments as well, driving a car to a cars and coffee once a week doesn't make it and the problem with modified cars is they become dated pretty fast and all that money spent on them has to be respent every few years or they become out of date, think Foose paintjob and wheels.
Quote from: anlauto on March 06, 2021, 04:40:37 AM
Quote from: Joegrapes on March 05, 2021, 09:12:48 PM
Allen, there are a number of new 2021 Hemi Challenger R/T at the local Dodge dealer that sticker in 35k range. When was the last time you restored a car for a customer that had less that that in it? The hobby will always be here it's just that the cost has driven the younger people away. Same with Harley. Most young people who want to ride don't see the value in a Harley when they can buy a Japanese bike for way less and get better performance. Harley won't survive if they rely on us old farts to buy their bikes.
I guess, maybe in the States..my wife's 2017 V6 Challenger was $42K CDN :dunno:
Right now in Lillington, NC Heister Dodge has a 2021 new SXT (v6) that MSRP is $30,085 on sale after Dodge rebate and dealer discount is $25,433 They also have a 2021 RT that stickers for $39,475 going for $34,970. Glad i don't live in Canada.
Every once in a while i get the urge to go buy one of them... but...then i think... I already have a 74 Challenger with 360/408 and the A518 auto, with Air conditioning AND i fitted in a power track for my drivers seat and a nice in the factory spot Pioneer stereo. It drives and handles well enough for LEGAL driving and has about the same performance as a base RT... (biggest drawback is fuel economy sucks at 10-11 mpg). So why spend the money.
Regarding the hobby... I was lucky enough to find my 74 in somewhat solid shape except for the rear quarters and trunk floor, with a built 360 for $5,000 five years ago. Now, I am NOT a purest who cares about matching numbers, and "all original" anyways, so with that said 72-74's go for a lot less than the 70-71's which is truly stupid. Yes, 71 was the last year of the true factory muscle cars, but the engines aren't stock anymore 90% of the time, so the later years go just as good... I made it a true hobby by doing all of the work myself, and being really careful about buying parts...
Right now i have about $17 K tied up in it, plus about 500 hrs of my own labor, and i would venture that its worth in the $25K-$30 range. Its a driver, not a trailer queen. I have won three trophies with it (first show i took it to not even fully finished it got a top 25 award) plus two others at "functions" that gave prizes. I no longer take it to shows...as who wants to pay $25 entry fee, by 11am and then sit around for four hours till the award show at typically 3pm...held like a captive to win another $5 trophy.
I recognize that professional restorers charge between $75 and $150 per hour so that if your idea of "restoring" a classic is to take it to a restoration shop and deplete your wallet...then glad your rich. Having said that it seems that there are fewer and fewer of guys like me who do the work themselves and drive them, and even less and less trailer Queens... Looks like the high end restoration market is what its becoming, and they ARENT in my opinion...car guys. Their rich dudes that buy them, keep for a year or two, and then sell them again. I wonder how many of the Mecum Auction cars sold this year, were also sold there last year... so the hobby is becoming more and more like stamp collecting...the super wealthy guys like Jay Leno buy them and keep them, and the others trade every year, hoping that because of the restoration cost, theirs goes up in price and they can make a buck.
Oh well, my car club hasnt met since March of last year because of covid, and with most of the guys in their mid 70's i wonder if we will ever even meet again.
Quote from: anlauto on March 06, 2021, 04:40:37 AM
Quote from: Joegrapes on March 05, 2021, 09:12:48 PM
Allen, there are a number of new 2021 Hemi Challenger R/T at the local Dodge dealer that sticker in 35k range. When was the last time you restored a car for a customer that had less that that in it? The hobby will always be here it's just that the cost has driven the younger people away. Same with Harley. Most young people who want to ride don't see the value in a Harley when they can buy a Japanese bike for way less and get better performance. Harley won't survive if they rely on us old farts to buy their bikes.
I guess, maybe in the States..my wife's 2017 V6 Challenger was $42K CDN :dunno:
Newer Chargers and Challengers are more expensive because they are putting a premium on its heritage and reputation, neither of which it had in 1970. Those cars of today would be more like the less expensive cars like a Subaru BRZ
My opinion of this hobby is not so positive. Prices will level off, then decline. I can't give a time frame 10, 20, 30yrs, but it will be sooner then later. With this so called Climate change being a huge priority, gas will diminish along with gas powered vehicles. Some States already mandating the sale of gas powered cars to be banned. All States will eventually follow. More battery stations will be built and gas stations will slowly disappear. Already the demand for gas is going down with carmakers making more alternative fuel cars. Ask the States that keep raising the gas tax because revenue is down. Unless we can convert our gas guzzlers to propane, NG, hydrogen, or electric, Im afraid we will have cars in our garage that will just sit. To me our cars will be worth nothing when that happens. I won't be around in 30 yrs to see what happens, but there will be a time when this hobby will be extinct. The first Tesla's will be the next Gen collector car.
I totally get all of the fears and can neither confirm nor deny. However I will say this. I had owned 7 E bodies (hence my handle here) in the 80's. This includes 4 70's and 3 71's. Of these were a spectacular JS23U0B, a JH23C that I loved and daily drove, a JS27N, 2 JH27G1's, a JS23R0 (yes R) and a JH23G1 "grandma's garage car", nearly new. Many simultaneously owned. I let several nay sayers tell me (in the later 80's) that I'd better be selling out quickly as the states would soon be banning these cars that had little or no pollution controls. Sadly, I bit. Hook. Line. Sinker. Sold out completely. Fast forward 35 years and I find this awesome group on Facebook. I was soon re-hooked and actively seeking my JS23U0B car (to no avail) and have bought two others and currently working on buying a third that a friend owns. Will they depreciate? Get banned? Get taxed out of existence? Will fuel become scarce or dry up? Well, what if, what if. What if a comet hits? Or worse...a divorce, a theft, a fire? (I know...somewhat the same thing). Life is short. E body cars are rare and a thrill to own. How I wish I hadn't bought into the "bravo sierra" that got handed to me in the 80's. Banning family emergencies, I'm in it for the haul. I'll treat these cars like my "other hobby" where I say to politicians, "come and take them". I for one think we have far bigger concerns as of late.
The one thing that no one has mentioned is the newer generation is more of a buy it and throw it away type crowd. Whereas my generation that grew up around muscle cars could afford them and worked on them incessantly because they couldn't afford to put them in the shop all the time.
I know there are some younger folks that like to tool on the old muscle cars but I think they are in the minority.
Sign of the times....
Quote from: HP_Cuda on March 06, 2021, 04:10:20 PM
Whereas my generation that grew up around muscle cars could afford them and worked on them incessantly because they couldn't afford to put them in the shop all the time.
They were a "bit" simpler and easier to work on then. Don't you think?
Quote from: dodj on March 06, 2021, 04:50:32 PM
Quote from: HP_Cuda on March 06, 2021, 04:10:20 PM
Whereas my generation that grew up around muscle cars could afford them and worked on them incessantly because they couldn't afford to put them in the shop all the time.
They were a "bit" simpler and easier to work on then. Don't you think?
Parts were a lot cheaper then too, even if you include inflation
The biggest threat is probably fuel going away but I will say that I did see a good turn out last night
Well I am a 27 year old who is tackling down a 70 Challenger SE model. It's been a dream of mine since I was younger to have me an ebody. I spent 7 yrs going to college, graduated from grad school, and my father decided to provide me with a project car as a gift. I've been working on it for a year and a half now. I continue to put in a ton of hours in it before it becomes a back burner for if and when I get married and start having children. Once that happens, i know it would delay the hell out of the project, hence the reason I work on this car mostly daily. I want my dream to come true ASAP if able! Now I know it's not the major "want" in a 70 Challenger in regards to RT, matching numbers, yadda yadda, which is why I decided to make the car how I would like it. Keeping it with the original look (interior and exterior) of course to my liking, but have a modern drive to it. Now I grew up hating working on cars for my father in his body shop, which was minimal stuff; i could've cared less on learning how to do body work. But since this car has came into my life, i enjoy the hell out of restoring it so far. But, GEEZUS is this hobby expensive and laborious. Haha if it weren't for my father's body shop equipment, i would have NEVER entered this realm unless I bought one "ready." But by gosh I have learned so damn much about body work. I never knew how to weld until now. I've repaired and patched up all the rust that was present initially, hired body man to install the new parts on, and I took over from there trying to make it as perfect as I am able to make it.
I'm no where near done, but I've made some good progression so far. I have to give a HUGE thanks to this forum and everyone that has helped me through this journey so far.
P.S. my car came with a 71 grill for some reason. Still available for sale if anyone is interested.
And if anyone wants to donate parts, feel free to do so as well. Haha but seriously though. I'm tired of spending money on this thing. Haha
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Yeah it was pretty good
I took the satellite out
The car hobby is not going away anytime soon, maybe someday they will ban gasoline powered vehicles and they`ll be stuck in museums but that won`t be for another 20-30-50 years. I see plenty of biulds going on from stock restos to big dollar Pro Tourers to low budget drives by all age groups. One thing I have noticed is many more newer cars at shows and cruise nights, I think either some have sold the old musclecars for a newer one or have both and just prefer to drive the new one more while the old ones sits in the garage.
Good job Yeya and you have the right idea. Don't stop working on the car until it is finished. I always took 1 year max to do a car, I see other ones get stalled and sit in the garage for years at a time and that's just a waste.
The reason, I beleive, you dont see many 60-70;s MC,s is because its expensive. Parts, labor, etc drives away the younger crowd. A paint job alone can run 5K and higher, easy.
And the reason MC prices are so high, started when Barret Jakson and the other high dollar auctions sites came on TV. When that happened, prices SKYROCKETED, and its remains so.
Gas prices mean ZERO when it comes to MCs. When gas prices skyrocketed a few years ago, prices did not go down on collectables
Whjere is it going: It wont be 20-30 years when the hobby goes away. It will be MUCH sooner if the politicians have their way: Dont think so? They tried YEARS ago when the govt was considering stopping the sales of classic car parts. Do your research, you will see.
This "hobby" is as expensive, in part, as you choose to make it. If you want to spend less on a classic Mopar, then start with an A, or C body. If you want to spend less on an E, then start with a 72-74, or slant /318 , or base car. Also, we seem to be prone to over restoring these cars. Many come out looking better looking then originals ever were. I love Ma Mopar, but build quality was not job one back in the day. Take a look at true survivor car, and notice the body gaps, not to mention the lack of good welds. My car came with old school patch repairs on the floor. Is it as nice as full panels, nope, but it is structurally sound, and no one will see it unless they want to crawl under my car. My value will come from driving my car and enjoying it with my family.
Quote from: docmel on March 07, 2021, 07:22:29 AM
Whjere is it going: It wont be 20-30 years when the hobby goes away. It will be MUCH sooner if the politicians have their way: Dont think so? They tried YEARS ago when the govt was considering stopping the sales of classic car parts. Do your research, you will see.
FYI: Pres Biden owns a '67 Corvette. Gov Cuomo has a car collection which includes a C3 Corvette, 69 El Camino, 73 Camaro, 68 GTO, etc. Sen Jon Tester owns a 56 Buick and 55 Chevy. Rep Bill Posey owns a 66 Chevelle and installs big blocks in his 30's cars. SEMA is to muscle cars like the NRA is to gun ownership. It is as American as baseball, hot dogs, and apple pie.
:cooldance:
Quote from: DrEamer on March 07, 2021, 08:02:39 AM
This "hobby" is as expensive, in part, as you choose to make it. If you want to spend less on a classic Mopar, then start with an A, or C body. If you want to spend less on an E, then start with a 72-74, or slant /318 , or base car. Also, we seem to be prone to over restoring these cars. Many come out looking better looking then originals ever were. I love Ma Mopar, but build quality was not job one back in the day. Take a look at true survivor car, and notice the body gaps, not to mention the lack of good welds. My car came with old school patch repairs on the floor. Is it as nice as full panels, nope, but it is structurally sound, and no one will see it unless they want to crawl under my car. My value will come from driving my car and enjoying it with my family.
:iagree: The ones saying it`s too expensive need to lower thier expectations, learn how to restore the cars themselves or work more overtime. :huh: We all would love a six figure Hemi car with 800 hp, natioanl show winning paint etc. but you can get in the hobby and have almost as much fun with a driver quality car with 300hp. There are plenty of decent cars out there for under $10k
Regarding Joe Biden - he checked out a few years ago and is now an empty shell. The policies he is espousing are those of his far left wing socialist supporters who got him elected. As for our hobby- most of us had these cars when we were teenagers and young adults. We didn't collect and restore them back in the 70s, we drove the piss out of them because it was fun... and exciting! Nothing like the rush of a huge thermoquad or a six barrel barking out that deep thwahhh noise as you punched the accelerator. Now these same kids and young adults want to relive their youth. The difference is that these kids are now adults in there late 50s, early 60s with kids out of college, mortgages paid off, and most in their peak earning years with cash on hand. That is why the hobby is so expensive these days. Supply and demand.
NO POLITICAL POSTS ALLOWED! Let's stay on topic here . .
I have been in 2 new challengers. Tons of power and tons of fun. No offense, but I would rather own my 73 Cuda any day over a new challenger even though I spent enough on my restoration to buy a nice used hellcat.
From the sound to the vibration and feel of driving it, there is no substitute. I see a future in these cars as long as younger kids keep the hobby alive. I am 41 and it does seem like I am on the younger side at car shows.
Yeya I'm going through a very similar process and you're correct for assuming kids/house details projects like this. Had I paid better attention I would have sold my racecar two years prior and jumped on my 71 Cuda GC much earlier (same color as yours too). I'm only a few years older than you, but with daycare costs, home construction, etc there isn't much time or $ for this stuff right now. I try to do as much as I can here or there, but until my house is done dedication to bodywork is out the window. I'm also sick of spending money haha.
I think there are a couple of things going on...
1. Prices are high right now because there is less for sale. Dealers I know are struggling to find good cars, when they do they sell right away, hence high prices. I think this will settle down post Covid.
2. I am amazed at how "alive" the morning car cruises are. With lots of club activity, lots of attendance. But...lots of new cars of course, including a bigger share of euro imports, less classics. I give these participants a lot of credit though, they do track days, road courses and drag strips, they modify their cars...so really not any different than in the 70's when people modified current cars!
3. Older cars are fading away unfortunately. People that understood the 50's and early 60's cars are aging out of the hobby, you rarely see them. I think Mopar still gets a lot of action because its Mopar, I think people still understand that multi-carb cars are cool, I also thinks certain models get more younger interest. I had a 69 GTX that was really nice and when I took it out no one cared. I think most people at a show don't even know what an LS6 Chevelle is or care. On the other hand, 70's Challengers seem to get a lot of young people attention. The Hemi in my Charger gets lots of stares from all ages, mostly I think because you just don't see them that often "in the wild". I know a guy with a Buick GSX and he laughs that no one knows what it is, on the other hand Grand Nationals get lots of attention at cruises and people know exactly what they were. You can see that in Grand National prices.
I should add that I am 62, so when I say "young" it is a pretty broad category!!
Quote from: Kowal on March 08, 2021, 04:44:10 AM
I think there are a couple of things going on...
1. Prices are high right now because there is less for sale. Dealers I know are struggling to find good cars, when they do they sell right away, hence high prices. I think this will settle down post Covid.
2. I am amazed at how "alive" the morning car cruises are. With lots of club activity, lots of attendance. But...lots of new cars of course, including a bigger share of euro imports, less classics. I give these participants a lot of credit though, they do track days, road courses and drag strips, they modify their cars...so really not any different than in the 70's where people modified current cars!
3. Older cars are fading away unfortunately. People that understood the 50's and early 60's cars are aging out of the hobby, you rarely see them. I think Mopar still gets a lot of action because its Mopar, I think people still understand that multi-carb cars are cool, I also thinks certain models get more younger interest. I had a 69 GTX that was really nice and when I took it out no one cared. I think most people at a show don't even know what an LS6 Chevelle is or care. On the other hand, 70's Challengers seem to get a lot of young people attention. The Hemi in my Charger gets lots of stares from all ages, mostly I think because you just don't see them that often "in the wild". I know a guy with a Buick GSX and he laughs that no one knows what it is, on the other hand Grand Nationals get lots of attention at cruises and people know exactly what they were. You can see that in Grand National prices.
I agree completely with your statement. I also think ppl are more interested in Challengers than Chevelles because the new Challenger exists and they recognize the name but a new Chevelle doesn't so they have no clue. Same goes for Hemi and Charger names.
When I went to cruisins etc. I would make a point of talking to the younger guys with the "ricers" etc. You will find they are gearheads just like us old guys but they are a bit intimidated by the old muscle car guys and don't feel like the older guys have respect for them. If you old guys take a few minutes and ask these young guys what they did to their Honda/Mitsu/ whatever it will help bring us all ltogether which is needed to keep the hobby going and fight the NIMBYs that want it shut down. I still remember when I was in my early 20's and met a few guys in their 40's that were into 20's-50's cars I couldn't believe how friendly those guys were and that they had interest in my Mopars, so I try to do the same for the younger guys now and like others have said they live cars, they race them, put all their money into them and would love to have an old Mopar too and maybe will in the future if we treat them right.
Exactly. The whole perception of us vs them whether the them is kids with a basket case Honda or they bought a newer muscle style of car, doesn't do the collective us any good.
Sunday, went to the monthly Brentwood "Coffee & Gears" morning gathering. Counted over 150 muscle cars from the 50's thru 70's. About eight long rows of desirable collector cars in a strip mall. Local police enjoyed the meet as well. Five e-bodies and several Roadrunners in attendance. The gathering started at 7 am and broke up around noon. Several UK cars showed up: 2021 McLaren, 1967 Sunbeam tiger, 1964 TR4A, 1968 MGC, etc. Several 50's and 60's Corvettes. There were alot of participants in their 20's showing off Chevelle Super Sports, 60's Camaros & late 60's Nova's. The MOPAR guys were in their 40's - 60's. A neighbor was there with his 70 Challenger. Ran into another friend with his 70 'Cuda 340 six-pack/727 and marginal paint. We chuckled over how he offered to sell it to me 2-1/2 yrs ago for $25K. But a week later, I purchased a Challenger. He saw my 73 Challenger and hinted at trading. I told him if his car was #'s matching, had a/c, with a quality paint job like mine, I'd be interested. His 'Cuda has a Vinyl top and if you press on the vinyl below the rear glass it is crunchy. Still, I do believe it would be a fair trade though.
So, with the turn out, I think the hobby is as strong as it ever was. We have Pleasanton Goodguys car show in two weeks. I believe the show will reached critical mass, again. One year ~ 5,000 cars participated and the fairgrounds had to close the gates.The main reason I have not fled California is because the car culture is second to none! :veryexcited: :ohyeah: :cooldance:
great topic !!!
Oh, there are so many variables !! Back in the '70's, when I think the MC craze started, as there were no more new sexy cars, high performance sedans, and i believe this spurred the major interest in the '60's and early '70's MC's. Through the 80's and mid 90's, there really wasn't anything comparable. the introduction of the corvette ZR1 and Viper started a newer age of MC's, resulting in alot more options now. Back in the '70's , restored model T's were worth alot more than the majority of MC's. Model T's are still worth about the same as they were in the '70's, as i believe the demand is much lower now. i think i see the same in the cars from the '40's and early '50's, again, i just don't think the demand is there, as compared to 20 years ago. I don;t think anybody back then thought that we would be seeing a new generation of MC's, like over the last 15 years. Now the standard is supercharged / turbocharged. I think some people will now be more likely to purchase a newer MC, as they are alot more powerful, with a power adder, and still great looking, and a much better suspension package, and most importantly cheaper alot of times as compared to an old MC. The 2005/6 ford GT's, and newer ones have already appreciated, as well as the limited run of challenger demon's. Although there are still high dollar sales of older MC's, I also have seen a lot of them selling for below market value. The hot thing now seems to be a resto-mod, which to me, is not as appealing as original/somewhat original spec. I can't believe how the vipers have shot up in value over the last 1-2 years. The super rare MC's will always command high dollars.
interesting.
Quote from: Poolshark314 on March 08, 2021, 06:23:42 AM
Quote from: Kowal on March 08, 2021, 04:44:10 AM
I think there are a couple of things going on...
1. Prices are high right now because there is less for sale. Dealers I know are struggling to find good cars, when they do they sell right away, hence high prices. I think this will settle down post Covid.
2. I am amazed at how "alive" the morning car cruises are. With lots of club activity, lots of attendance. But...lots of new cars of course, including a bigger share of euro imports, less classics. I give these participants a lot of credit though, they do track days, road courses and drag strips, they modify their cars...so really not any different than in the 70's where people modified current cars!
3. Older cars are fading away unfortunately. People that understood the 50's and early 60's cars are aging out of the hobby, you rarely see them. I think Mopar still gets a lot of action because its Mopar, I think people still understand that multi-carb cars are cool, I also thinks certain models get more younger interest. I had a 69 GTX that was really nice and when I took it out no one cared. I think most people at a show don't even know what an LS6 Chevelle is or care. On the other hand, 70's Challengers seem to get a lot of young people attention. The Hemi in my Charger gets lots of stares from all ages, mostly I think because you just don't see them that often "in the wild". I know a guy with a Buick GSX and he laughs that no one knows what it is, on the other hand Grand Nationals get lots of attention at cruises and people know exactly what they were. You can see that in Grand National prices.
I agree completely with your statement. I also think people are more interested in Challengers than Chevelles because the new Challenger exists and they recognize the name but a new Chevelle doesn't so they have no clue. Same goes for Hemi and Charger names.
But on the other hand, the Barrett Jackson and Mecum auctions to me prove that Chevy is king !! While it is true that a very rare Hemi Cuda might go for 1+ million...they are well rare. But take an "average restored" 70 440 cuda and it will probably sell in the $40-60 k RANGE, while a 70 396 Camaro or 454 Chevelle will go in the 80's... Chevies are still more popular. PS i own a 74 ChALLENGER that i restored..
Also crazy is the price of a 70 Challenger or Cuda will be double if not triple the price of a similarly equipt and conditioned 72-74 Challenger or Cuda. Looks are in the eye of the beholder and other than the grille there isn't much difference in looks. VERY true that the 72-74 E bodied cars had anemic engines compared to the 70-71 but so what. Im not talking about "all original survivors" but restored vehicles that have had their engines redone and are every bit as strong in a 73 as a 70. Heck my 74 with its 360 is now a stroked 408 and probably putting out at least 400 HP...yet parked beside a 70 challenger in a sale would go for half as much !!
It's unrealistic for most younger people to love the hobby: A) it's not their generation. B) Muscle cars are too expensive. C) You can't drive these year-round. D) You need a garage or storage.