Hi Everyone,
What's your opinion on Brad Penn 40W in a 440 here in Florida, good idea or not?
Thanks
Mike
Stock 440? :dunno:
Hi,
Stock 440.
Hi,
I like the idea of added zinc.
Certainly would work for me . . :twothumbsup:
I wouldn't. I just don't like the idea on forcing 40W through an engine with stock clearances at say 70 degrees (cold startup).
Quote from: RUNCHARGER on December 28, 2017, 09:38:52 PM
I wouldn't. I just don't like the idea on forcing 40W through an engine with stock clearances at say 70 degrees (cold startup).
I've used the Brad Penn 10W-40 for years now in all of my older cars. A little more expensive but I like the idea of zinc as well.
Buy the Brad Penn, great for our older engines!
I'd say 40W will be fine with stock clearances, especially in Florida. I've used Brad Penn oil in my toys for years now. I use 20-50w in mine as per engine builder request.
been using full syn 5-30w for 15 years.
flows quicker at startup, and increases horse power.
also, syn oil works until about 750 degrees, while regular oil will
quite at 450 degrees, if you have an oil starvation issue. Saved
my bacon when I lost oil pressure once.
Brad Penn oil is partially synthetic to help on start up
on my cars that sit outside in winter, I put 0-30w full synthetic, so
there is quick oil flow at startup. I use to have 10-40w in a Honda Accord,
and for a second after startup you could hear the valves tapping away.
Quote from: Cuda_mark on December 29, 2017, 05:52:11 AM
Quote from: RUNCHARGER on December 28, 2017, 09:38:52 PM
I wouldn't. I just don't like the idea on forcing 40W through an engine with stock clearances at say 70 degrees (cold startup).
I've used the Brad Penn 10W-40 for years now in all of my older cars. A little more expensive but I like the idea of zinc as well.
Brad Penn 10-40 or Joe Gibbs oil 10-40 is what I use.
Quote from: Brads70 on December 29, 2017, 12:26:17 PM
I use 20-50w in mine as per engine builder request.
Do you know why he would recommend such an oil?
For people that would like to read a lot about oil..
https://bobistheoilguy.com/motor-oil-101/
I've used 20w50 usually Valvoline VR1 Racing Motor Oil in my 340-6pk since I have owned the car and my engine builder recommended that as well when it was rebuilt in 1982-83. Never had any issues with it. It's has High zinc/phosphorus for anti-wear protection, including push-rod and flat tappet applications
I have never started or driven the car when the temperature was lower than 45 degrees F.
Synthetic oil was in it's infancy back then:
Quote below from: http://www.oil4kids.com/syn-hist.htm
The Development of Synthesized Motor Oils:
A Historical Review
by Ed Newman
Marketing & Advertising Coordinator, AMSOIL INC.
Actually, for more than a year Jack had been putting a variety of Al's synthetic formulations in his previous cars, so he did not feel that he was putting his vehicle at serious risk. After several more years of fine tuning his formulation, AMZOIL (Amatuzio-oil) was created and became the first 100% synthetic diester based engine oil to pass the API sequence tests and receive API qualification in 1972.
The following year Mobil Oil began marketing the first PAO based engine oil overseas and in 1975 they began test marketing a synthetic PAO based synthetic in the U.S. called Mobil 1.
Over time a growing niche of consumers became aware of the performance benefits synthetic offered. As additional products were developed, from synthetic diesel oil to two cycle oils, synthetic transmission fluids and gear lubes, so grew the interest. With growing market opportunity, more companies made contributions in the development of basestock fluids and new technologies, including the Gulf Oil Company (since acquired by Chevron), Chevron Corporation, Amoco, Ethyl Corporation, Exxon, Henkel, Castrol, Uniroyal, Lubrizol, Neste Chemical, and Texaco (additive technology and synfluids since acquired by Ethyl).
By the mid-nineties nearly every oil company carried a high end synthetic motor oil in its product line, though only a few companies seem truly dedicated to promoting them. Nevertheless, synthetic lubricants are currently the fastest growing segment of the oil industry and they are definitely here for the long haul.
Mobil 1 synthetic 15W-50 is made for flat tappet cams (read the label) and will provide better lubrication at start up than straight 40W. Several studies have determined that the majority of engine wear, under normal conditions, occurs at engine start and warm up due to inadequate lubrication. That and closer engine tolerance are why virtually all major engine manufactures/car companies now recommend 5W-30 in their engines and in some cases 0W-30.
I've also read that Valvoline Racing oil works well with flat tappet cams. Personally, I'm running Hemmings 20w-50 in my 440/512 stroker.
Yes: Startup is exactly why I never run single weight oil. Also it doesn't matter how hot it is where you live, hot engine temperature is controlled by the thermostat.
I'm just wondering why anybody would prefer a 15w or 20w in a mutli viscosity oil when you can obtain 5W40 or 5w50. If you want or need the 40 or 50 weight at running temps, ok, but why not get the advantages of the 5W rating for start-up?
I'm not asking cuz I'm an oil wizard or anything, just trying to learn.
Quote from: dodj on December 31, 2017, 11:14:36 AM
I'm just wondering why anybody would prefer a 15w or 20w in a mutli viscosity oil when you can obtain 5W40 or 5w50. If you want or need the 40 or 50 weight at running temps, ok, but why not get the advantages of the 5W rating for start-up?
I'm not asking cuz I'm an oil wizard or anything, just trying to learn.
yes, want low viscosity at startup. Oil takes a little while to get to all places after startup, especially the
valve train. And 5W synthetic flows quicker than 5W regular oil, due to its shear properties I suspect.
My Viper calls for 0-40. Vipers aren't driven in -40 (no snow tires available in 345 I suppose).
pushing 40 or 50wt around robs horsepower
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=201805
3% diff on my car would be about 18 hp
Quote from: cudabob496 on December 31, 2017, 06:35:47 PM
pushing 40 or 50wt around robs horsepower
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=201805
3% diff on my car would be about 18 hp
Yeah but his testing was done on Motorcycle Engines and the HP difference would make sense. Motorcycle engines have a power band between 5000 and 10000 rpm so the tolerances have to be tighter (otherwise you would never be able to rev it that high) and that explains why using thinner oil makes more horsepower on Motorcycle engines.
Car Engines have power bands between 3000 and 7000 rpm approximately, if you look at dyno tests the horsepower will bottom out at a certain point and just because you rev it more does not always mean that it will keep producing more horsepower. Car engine tolerances are not nearly as tight as on Motorcycle engines.
Bottom line is that the tighter your clearances are (especially crank clearances) the thinner oil you can use.
Too me, the marginal horsepower you will gain on a Car Engine (unless it's a full blown race engine) just is not worth it. The last thing you want to do is spin a bearing and blow a rod through your block for maybe a 3% gain in horsepower.
Here's a good article on race engines explaining that: http://www.dragracingscene.com/tech-content/is-thinner-oil-better/
some good info. But running 5-30w full synthetic
on my 496 for 15 yrs seems to be working fine, and the
motor cylinder pressures were just checked last month
and all were 190 psi. Do you think I'm risking something by
using the 5-30w?
Nope: You're doing well obviously.
Valvoline says not to use their VR1 racing oil in a street car. You need to change out VR1 frequently. It's not meant to be in an engine for long miles.
But with the miles we probably put on our ebodies between changes, it's probably just fine, as JimAAR seems to prove out.
From Valvoline site:
"The Valvoline VR1 Racing and other racing oils not intended for passenger vehicles"
The fewer detergents/additives which protect against corrosion seems to be the difference? Without the stop and go of a street car, a racing engine doesn't build up the moisture, so it doesn't need the additives that combat the condition.
Quote from: dodj on January 01, 2018, 11:42:37 AM
Valvoline says not to use their VR1 racing oil in a street car. You need to change out VR1 frequently. It's not meant to be in an engine for long miles.
But with the miles we probably put on our ebodies between changes, it's probably just fine, as JimAAR seems to prove out.
From Valvoline site:
"The Valvoline VR1 Racing and other racing oils not intended for passenger vehicles"
The fewer detergents/additives which protect against corrosion seems to be the difference? Without the stop and go of a street car, a racing engine doesn't build up the moisture, so it doesn't need the additives that combat the condition.
wonder how VR1 racing oil is better than Mobil 1 full synthetic ?
Quote from: cudabob496 on January 01, 2018, 12:37:56 PM
Quote from: dodj on January 01, 2018, 11:42:37 AM
Valvoline says not to use their VR1 racing oil in a street car. You need to change out VR1 frequently. It's not meant to be in an engine for long miles.
But with the miles we probably put on our ebodies between changes, it's probably just fine, as JimAAR seems to prove out.
From Valvoline site:
"The Valvoline VR1 Racing and other racing oils not intended for passenger vehicles"
The fewer detergents/additives which protect against corrosion seems to be the difference? Without the stop and go of a street car, a racing engine doesn't build up the moisture, so it doesn't need the additives that combat the condition.
wonder how VR1 racing oil is better than Mobil 1 full synthetic ?
But then they also go on to say a little lower in the article the following:
What solutions does Valvoline offer to the zinc issue?
Valvoline offers two solutions to the zinc issue:
Valvoline VR1 Racing Oil: Contains 75% higher zinc than SN or SM motor oil with a balanced additive package designed to
work in both racing and traditional applications. Valvoline provides this product in both multi and mono viscosity grades: 20w50, straight 50, 10w30, straight 30, straight 40 and straight 60.
I rarely put on more than 1000 miles between changes as I rarely drive long distances in it so it would never build up enough contaminants or moisture to affect it, besides if I drove it long distances,I would need to take a loan to pay for the gas at today's prices. LOL :rofl:
Hi Everyone,
Just found this in a service manual.
Thanks Everyone
Mike
Quote from: Michael_B767_ATP on January 01, 2018, 02:04:04 PM
Hi Everyone,
Just found this in a service manual.
Thanks Everyone
Mike
I think that recommendation of heavy oil for performance engines is old school/out-dated.
650 hp Vettes coming out of the factory use 5w-30 Mobil I full synthetic.
I run Joe Gibbs LS-5/30 in my 572 Hemi as Tim Banning's (forhemisonly)advised, He was very firm on that so I'm not about to question him for sure.
Bruce.
Quote from: cordodge on January 04, 2018, 12:48:39 PM
I run Joe Gibbs LS-5/30 in my 572 Hemi as Tim Banning's (forhemisonly)advised, He was very firm on that so I'm not about to question him for sure.
Bruce.
I assume that's full synthetic
Quote from: cordodge on January 04, 2018, 12:48:39 PM
I run Joe Gibbs LS-5/30 in my 572 Hemi as Tim Banning's (forhemisonly)advised, He was very firm on that so I'm not about to question him for sure.
Bruce.
5/30 would be an awesome oil I would think. The easy flow at low temps would get things lubricated quickly.
Yes it is synthetic bob.
Hi,
What about Brad Penn 40w with a 20% mix of Marvel Mystery Oil?.
Thanks
Mike
don't like the sound of that, and have
never seen it recommended.
Quote from: cudabob496 on January 04, 2018, 04:48:42 PM
Quote from: cordodge on January 04, 2018, 12:48:39 PM
I run Joe Gibbs LS-5/30 in my 572 Hemi as Tim Banning's (forhemisonly)advised, He was very firm on that so I'm not about to question him for sure.
Bruce.
I assume that's full synthetic
Sorry, yes full synthetic.
Saw this at Auto Zone selling cheap...$4.00 I think. Never used it.
https://www.amazon.com/Shell-X-100-Classic-SH-39701-06-Additive/dp/B076Y62Q79?SubscriptionId=AKIAJZBN7NDVULV7C5EA&tag=wixlabs1234-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B076Y62Q79
Something like 75% to 80% of engine wear occurs during start up, when oil is not pumped up. When the engine is dry.
If you are SERIOUS about it, and I mean seriously worried about it, you can use one of these to pre-lube your engine.
Will also give you precious seconds if you lose pressure to shut down. They are CHEAP insurance?
https://www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/engine-oil-accumulators
I bought a three qt. one off ebay years ago. Moroso. You can get the stuff to make them a pre-luber cheap, and never worry about all this non-sense again!
Also good for cool down on turbo engines, if you want?
There are also electric engine prelube systems available. here is one https://www.cpperformance.com/products/Oil/engine-pre-lube.htm
not the only one on the market, there are PLENTY of options!
I would argue that , 40 years ago if an engine lasted 150,000 miles it was doing exceptional
now twice that is normal , EFI controls the fuel so much better , carbs are just a controlled fuel leak , it seems it had more to do with fuel wash in the cylinder , Efi provides better metering & atomization = less fuel wash :alan2cents:
Accumulators are a great idea I believe.
Quote from: Chryco Psycho on March 01, 2018, 05:30:04 PM
I would argue that , 40 years ago if an engine lasted 150,000 miles it was doing exceptional
now twice that is normal , EFI controls the fuel so much better , carbs are just a controlled fuel leak , it seems it had more to do with fuel wash in the cylinder , Efi provides better metering & atomization = less fuel wash :alan2cents:
But people here aren't asking about efi engines in general? are they? They are asking about their old tech CARB engines. - HENCE, the reply that I made.
Pre-lubers or accumulators are they way to go on them. Not trying to start a firestorm, not trying to address a problem that doesn't exist in NEW cars,
just trying to help people with their OLD carb cars. That's all. It's a CHEAP, EASY, SIMPLE solution.
Even older cars equipped with efi will benifit if they haven't been driven in some time. Look into it. Pre lubing is always good. There are NO pitfalls, downfalls, bad consequences.
You prelube your engine before firing it up for the first time? I hope! ask yourself WHY? same theory.
I agree , prelubing an engine & getting oil through the engine will definately help , no downside ,but if 75% of engine wear was at start up engines would wear out as fast as they used to as efi would make little difference but they don't , so EFI has to be reducing engine wear as well