Just got a call from the shop doing my alignment and they can`t get any better than +.6 camber on the drivers side, passenger side is OK. I have PST non-adjustable uppers, stock lowers and strut rods, I know the car was hit in the front years ago but I had a frame shop check it out and they said it was within spec. I guess I have two options - either have the shock tower pulled or get a set of adjustable upper arms, any recomendations for good set?
What constitutes okay on the passenger side? What specs are they trying for? What are your caster readings?
Frame specs on our old cars are +/- .25 of an inch. Pretty liberal there. You could have a frame shop pull shock towers to try and dial them in better than spec. I bet its a bit spendy and you will need to have a very capable and gracious operator to get within a gnat's butt of what you want.
Third option, install hardened washers between the spindle and lower ball joint. I'd recommend something in the .100-.130 range. This provide greater negative camber capability, which will them allow you more latitude to add caster without loosing the negative camber.
Selection of C40 and C45 Rockwell washers here.
https://www.mcmaster.com/washers/washers-4/general-purpose-washers-9/hardness~rockwell-c45/hardness~rockwell-c40/
Specs I was looking for - 2 1/2-3 degrees caster, -.5 camber and 1/16* 1/8 toe in. Both sides were at +.6 camber, drivers side ca was maxed out but passenger side had some more adjustment left. Yes, I know I could have it pulled a bit on a frame rack but with the car already painted and assembled I think the better option is to just buy a set of adjustable uppers.
We did my car, Pull the cam bolts out of the upper control arm, swing it out of the way. Grade 8 bolt and washers threw the brackets, hook the chain in the middle and make the pull. no harm no foil. :yes: :alan2cents: P.S use the perimeter frame clamps, don,t use the pinch weld clamps unless you have torque boxes. :no:
Why the negative caster, you running manual steering?
Of course if that's all your getting caster wise, going positive may not help your range of camber.
Rear end lifted or level? Lifted rears also limit how much you can get out of the front adjustment range.
Quote from: HP2 on September 18, 2021, 01:57:14 PM
Why the negative caster, you running manual steering?
Of course if that's all your getting caster wise, going positive may not help your range of camber.
Rear end lifted or level? Lifted rears also limit how much you can get out of the front adjustment range.
That was just a dash not meant to be a minus sine, sorry for the confusion. Rear is stock height, car sits pretty level front to rear.
Your alignment results are determined with a stock factory ride height, stock tires (all the same size), factory rim offset. Any deviations will effect the actual alignment.
Radial tires do not need as much camber as bias-ply tires did.
You will find "skosh" charts on line but you have to take them with a grain of salt. Seldom do yo find cars today that have not changed something on their cars suspension/wheels/tires away from stock. The specs ( any kind of specs really) are always based on a known, tested component or assembly. Once you change something, the specs become something not necessarily correct anymore.
Example : change a part from steel to aluminum. The factory torque specs no longer have meaning.
Final specs came out a bit better than originally thought, not ideal but close enough to drive for the rest of the season.
Camber drivers side -.017 pass -.014
Caster + 1.57 +1.58
Toe 1/16"
If you have standard upper arm bushings, that is probably as good as it gets. You could consider the offset bushings, I think they are $50 a pair, you need two pair, which may get you a couple more degrees. Hardened washer approach is around $45 for all four positions and will add a few degrees of camber which will give you a broader range of caster to play with without loosing camber. Of course the adjustable arm approach will give you the broadest range of adjustment for around $400+.
Quote from: HP2 on September 20, 2021, 12:33:23 PM
If you have standard upper arm bushings, that is probably as good as it gets. You could consider the offset bushings, I think they are $50 a pair, you need two pair, which may get you a couple more degrees. Hardened washer approach is around $45 for all four positions and will add a few degrees of camber which will give you a broader range of caster to play with without loosing camber. Of course the adjustable arm approach will give you the broadest range of adjustment for around $400+.
The whole reason I bought the PST tubular uppers was to get more caster than the stock arms would allow - guess that plan didn`t work out so well! :bricks: I may spend another $420 for the adjustable uppers eventually or look into the other options such as washers or offset bushings but for now I`ll leave it as is.
Seems to me like your frame shop was wrong saying your front end rails are all good, or your front end is really f'd up. If you have the extra caster uca's already and you can only get one and a half degree's.....hmmmmm.
I'd be tempted to waste a little more money and go to another alignment shop.
I have 3.5* caster with the Moog offset bushings. You would be golden with the moogs for only another 80 bucks, but it seems to me to be tooo much correction to be done to get good numbers.
You can have a straight frame rail and be off at the shock tower. I already gave the fix procedure above. and no body damage what so ever. :alan2cents:
We also don't know his ride height settings or rim offsets. Remember that factory specs are only correct with factory ride height and factory tire size and factory rim size and offsets. Raise or lower suspension and your range of adjustment changes. Offsets affect your caster swing .
Alignment 101 look in you FSM. First thing is to make sure car is level, factory ride height, all tires same brand model, correct air pressure, all rims same width and offset.
Then you start to take readings. Be sure to also get your thrust angle readings. Excessive thrust angle will keep you from getting a straight steering wheel when driving down the road.
Quote from: JS29 on September 21, 2021, 07:17:58 AM
You can have a straight frame rail and be off at the shock tower. I already gave the fix procedure above. and no body damage what so ever. :alan2cents:
Yes, I understand the rails could be straight and it`s just in the shock tower area, seems to be a fairy common issue with these old Mopars, I think the cheaper, easier way is get some adjustable uppers or I may really cheap out and just use the hardened washer trick.
Quote from: HP2 on September 17, 2021, 01:35:16 PM
What constitutes okay on the passenger side? What specs are they trying for? What are your caster readings?
Frame specs on our old cars are +/- .25 of an inch. Pretty liberal there. You could have a frame shop pull shock towers to try and dial them in better than spec. I bet its a bit spendy and you will need to have a very capable and gracious operator to get within a gnat's butt of what you want.
Third option, install hardened washers between the spindle and lower ball joint. I'd recommend something in the .100-.130 range. This provide greater negative camber capability, which will them allow you more latitude to add caster without loosing the negative camber.
Selection of C40 and C45 Rockwell washers here.
https://www.mcmaster.com/washers/washers-4/general-purpose-washers-9/hardness~rockwell-c45/hardness~rockwell-c40/
I have always used option 3 on my race cars (oval track). Washer between spindle and ball joint. Cheap, easy and never an issue
Quote from: torredcuda on September 20, 2021, 04:31:21 PM
The whole reason I bought the PST tubular uppers was to get more caster than the stock arms would allow - guess that plan didn`t work out so well! :bricks: I may spend another $420 for the adjustable uppers eventually or look into the other options such as washers or offset bushings but for now I`ll leave it as is.
Were the arms installed on the correct side? I put them on my B body and loved them, but I put them on the wrong sides the first time around. The ball joint will sit level front to back and the stud will be square in the joint when at rest if they are installed correctly. Just a thought....
That's definitely a good point. The extra built in caster would then be reversed and create less caster and cam adjustments would only get you to zero or low digits.