Hello again...I have another mystery to solve with my Challenger RT restoration. Does anyone know if there was a difference between the tail panel on a 70 Challenger SE and 70 Challenger RT. Some seem to have a full width panel painted argent and black with 2 end corner trim pieces molded in and others seem to have just the 3 rear trim pieces with no panel. See pics of both...
Thanks
Kent G.
The wide tail panel is a part of the SE trim package. My car has that even not an SE, so I guess it also was available as an option.
1970 Challenger R/T's never had a blacked-out tail panel, always body colour.
RT/SE's or just SE's had the argent tail panel
:iagree: And T/A's would be black. That's the 3 options you could get.
And I think the SE exterior trim package could be ordered without the SE package, right? :huh:
Which I think is very odd that the RT grille was black, but when adding the SE to that. the rear finish panel was argent. Definitely an after thought IMO. they should have had the RT in black and base SE should have been the Argent. but who am I.
I've always thought the R/T SE was kind of a confused package anyway. Limo window and leather with performance features, but that's what makes them special!
I agree R/T and standard challenger were just finished in body paint with the thin moldings, T/A painted black with the thin moldings and SE and R/T SE with the applique.
Hey guys! Don't forget the Western Sport Special, it also had the rear Astro tone finish panel as part of the A91 WSS package. Thanks, Al
And in spite of all the claims that all rear trim panels were Astrotone I know way to many R/T SE's that had black textured panels back in the early 70's for me to accept that they weren't original.... My uncle bought one new & owned it into the late 80's with a black textured panel, I bought mine in 74..... This has been posted about on various forums & dozens of long tern owners have chimed in supporting the existence of the black panels.....
It's been pointed out by nay sayers that there is no part number for the separate black panel but that has been countered with the fact there are dozens of production parts that don't appear in the parts manuals...
correct, and some dealers installed SE parts to make them flashier to the buyers.
Words of truth on your observation Randy, and also on your observation Stevec, that Mopar tidbit about dealers chucking a few SE parts at a hard to get rid car is true. My old '70 SL6 Challenger had quite a few SE parts on it when I bought it. Being a 6 cylinder car and sat on the dealers lot for 8 months no doubt had to have a little help to find a home. Either the dealer or a collaboration between the dealer and a prospective buyer to make a deal a bit more tastier. Only because the Dodge was originally light on upscale parts. Thanks, Al
I remember seeing a 426 hemi car with no badges, a flat hood and green interior, the body was white. A true sleeper. Dealers did a lot of things and towards the end of the year would slap on stuff and discount cars. It was a wild time.
Randy: I think they were more of a really dark graphite rather than a true black though? And the one part # is easily explained as well, they just plain didn't service the black panel, why stock something so obscure when the lighter tone panel was stocked anyway.
Challenger = painted Body Color
Challenger w/A63 (OPTIONAL) = Astrotone Painted Applique
Challenger SE = Astrotone Painted Applique
Challenger RT = painted Body Color
Challenger RT w/A63 (OPTIONAL) = Astrotone Painted Applique (black early)
Challenger RT/SE = Astrotone Painted Applique (black early)
Challenger T/A = painted Black
and many cars restored in the '80s had the "SE" panel added because it was the only way to get NOS '70 ONLY quarter panel trim pieces
Quote from: Cuda Cody on June 08, 2017, 03:15:31 PM
And I think the SE exterior trim package could be ordered without the SE package, right? :huh:
I believe so, mine came with all the SE trim, and I have seen 80's pictures of my car, when it still had the original paint, with the same trim.
Thanks everyone for the excellent replies! However, I am still left wondering what I should do. See the pics below. My car came in pieces originally and had the full length panel shown below. Don't know if this was original to the car as you never know what was actually original. I am simply wondering if I should be refinishing and putting the panel back on the car or sell the panel and get the two end trim pieces as shown in the other pic below. Again, my car is a R/T Track Pack car and not an SE version. In other words....should there be no full length panel on an R/T and just be the body metal with body color.
KG
Kent.
Does your build sheet show the A63 ? if yes then it has. If no then its not correct for your challenger.
If yours is not optioned with the A63. I would be interested in purchasing that panel for my RT/SE. I do stock those end molding also.
as listed by 6bblgt.
Challenger = painted Body Color
Challenger w/A63 (OPTIONAL) = Astrotone Painted Applique
Challenger SE = Astrotone Painted Applique
Challenger RT = painted Body Color
Challenger RT w/A63 (OPTIONAL) = Astrotone Painted Applique (black early)
Challenger RT/SE = Astrotone Painted Applique (black early)
Challenger T/A = painted Black
The SE trim panels requires holes to be drilled in the tail panel just above the tail lights, I can't remember how many but probably 7 or 8. If those holes are punched your car probably had the trim panel, if drilled it was added by someone. The holes are for mounting hardware that attaches to the lower perimeter of the applique panel.
As mentioned A63 on fender tag, holes above tail lights & since it was part of a package there should be trim on the tops of the doors, quarters & across the back of the hood & fenders.... Plus on the front valance....
Yep, just checked my fender tag, got A63 there. On a G code convertible.
Awesome to Cuda Cody and all the members! As usual, thanks for the great advice!
KG
To Mopar Dave:
You got a deal....I would be happy to sell you mine and get the correct corner trim pieces. Let me know what you are thinking as far as money/swap. Just call me at the number below
Kent Goins
1-405-747-8588
Will Do. Thanks
Great discussion on another confusing mopar detail. Nowhere but E-bodies.org can you get this type of clarity and confidence when working on these wonderful cars. :ohyeah:
Quote from: kent_goins on June 09, 2017, 12:08:34 PM
To Mopar Dave:
You got a deal....I would be happy to sell you mine and get the correct corner trim pieces. Let me know what you are thinking as far as money/swap. Just call me at the number below
Kent Goins
1-405-747-8588
i'llcatch up with you on monday for details
To Mopar Dave:
Just went to the shop and looked at my tail panel...It has the 7 or 8 mount holes above the lights for the A63 Applique panel. So....long story short, my car may have had the A63 options, therefore I am going to stick with the full panel. Sorry for getting your hopes up. I really wanted just the quarter trim pieces and not the full panel but changing would require filling the holes and a great deal of extra work.
KG
Quote from: kent_goins on June 11, 2017, 01:15:46 PM
To Mopar Dave:
Just went to the shop and looked at my tail panel...It has the 7 or 8 mount holes above the lights for the A63 Applique panel. So....long story short, my car may have had the A63 options, therefore I am going to stick with the full panel. Sorry for getting your hopes up. I really wanted just the quarter trim pieces and not the full panel but changing would require filling the holes and a great deal of extra work.
KG
That panel doesn't require "extra holes" :alan2cents: Are you looking at the tail light mounting holes ?
not looking at the tail light mounting holes. The tail lights are installed and there are 7 or 8 holes spanning the tail panel that appear to be mounting holes for the applique panel.
Can you post a photo so we can see the holes?
Quote from: kent_goins on June 11, 2017, 01:15:46 PM
To Mopar Dave:
Just went to the shop and looked at my tail panel...It has the 7 or 8 mount holes above the lights for the A63 Applique panel. So....long story short, my car may have had the A63 options, therefore I am going to stick with the full panel. Sorry for getting your hopes up. I really wanted just the quarter trim pieces and not the full panel but changing would require filling the holes and a great deal of extra work.
KG
I found the illustration pertaining to the SE rear finish panel in the Dodge 1970 Challenger & Dart Service Manual Vol. 2, group index 23 pg. 48, fig. 57. Hope it helps. As for the pic on reply #31, of the white Challenger body on the jig, I see none of the holes for the screws above the taillight openings (is this the body in question?) for the SE finish panel, the other holes for the top of finish panel are under the edge of the closed deck lid. My own experience with the finish panel, my Challenger came to me w/ the panel. Using it as a daily driver over the years damaged it and I ended up removing it for future restoration, I filled in the holes and painted the area a satin black. When I finally had the panel restored I had to reopen the screw holes to secure it once more. Thanks, Al
Sorry it posted upside down. Let's see what happens if I repost. Sorry Thanks, Al
Good shot Al, that's what I was talking about.
Quote from: anlauto on June 11, 2017, 02:05:35 PM
Quote from: kent_goins on June 11, 2017, 01:15:46 PM
To Mopar Dave:
Just went to the shop and looked at my tail panel...It has the 7 or 8 mount holes above the lights for the A63 Applique panel. So....long story short, my car may have had the A63 options, therefore I am going to stick with the full panel. Sorry for getting your hopes up. I really wanted just the quarter trim pieces and not the full panel but changing would require filling the holes and a great deal of extra work.
KG
That panel doesn't require "extra holes" :alan2cents: Are you looking at the tail light mounting holes ?
Yes, it does... Above the tail lights.....
Okay....let me rephrase.....it doesn't "need" extra holes to be installed and stay in place.
Well if you don't use hardware across the tail light area the lower edge of the panel floats & typically hangs over 1/2"out from where it should be....
It's possible, but I never had that issue, mind you I've only ever restored one RT/SE and that was a long time ago. :help:
Quote from: 1 Wild R/T on June 11, 2017, 05:43:49 PM
Well if you don't use hardware across the tail light area the lower edge of the panel floats & typically hangs over 1/2"out from where it should be....
When I installed mine, although not correct I used the lock cylinder to hold it in place instead of drilling extra holes and those fasteners seem to be made on unobtainium :looney:
You know what! Actually as a collective force,all you guys brought a lot of good info to the table.It took me, what, three times to get the damned illustration right, so we all benefited visually. Brad, hey buddy your right about that lock cylinder bezel holding the center part of the panel in place. I had to remove the bezel the first time to remove the finish panel. It can be a real PITA, after removing all of the requisite clips and nuts, then you find you have to remove the lock cylinder, and then you have to line everything back up so that it works properly when reinstalling. Yes you do need those six nuts above the tail lights to finish it all off. Thanks, Al
Actually the trim panel covers the lock cylinder, Brad had to open up the hole in his panel to use the lock to secure the panel...
Yes: It's designed to go over the lock bezel alright. I made some fasteners and epoxied them into the trim piece along the bottom edge on mine as I couldn't find those fasteners anywhere. They hook into the bottom edge only so only catch by one edge.
Well never say never Randy, I know the first time I removed the panel, I did have to also remove the trunk lock bezel. I guess the diffence of the assy. line installation to a dealership body man installation. Which mine was the latter. Mine deffinatley did not have the SE trim present at the end of the assy. line. Thanks, Al
Holes on mine, original A63 trim package.
Quote from: kent_goins on June 11, 2017, 01:15:46 PM
To Mopar Dave:
Just went to the shop and looked at my tail panel...It has the 7 or 8 mount holes above the lights for the A63 Applique panel. So....long story short, my car may have had the A63 options, therefore I am going to stick with the full panel. Sorry for getting your hopes up. I really wanted just the quarter trim pieces and not the full panel but changing would require filling the holes and a great deal of extra work.
KG
no worries here. glad you figured it out.
To all for your enjoyment...here is my tailpanel before media blast and after. Notice the 6 or so holes across the back panel above the tail light mount holes. There you go.
KG
Cool, I've never seen that before. :clapping:
Quote from: anlauto on June 12, 2017, 08:02:38 AM
Cool, I've never seen that before. :clapping:
Stick around... You may learn something.... :rofl: :cheers:
Yeah: Slimey was punched there as well but I turfed all the photos of that car.
Quote from: 1 Wild R/T on June 12, 2017, 08:10:15 AM
Quote from: anlauto on June 12, 2017, 08:02:38 AM
Cool, I've never seen that before. :clapping:
Stick around... You may learn something.... :rofl: :cheers:
Nah.....that only makes my head hurt :P
Just used Codys new Fender TAG decoder, my A63 came up as:
Challenger Molding Group A = Belt Molding, Front Splash Pan Scoop Molding, Cowl Molding, and Rear Astrotone Painted Applique. SE (JH29 & JS29).
The tail panel, must be "Rear Astrotone painted Applique" is that the light grey paint?
Yes, that's the rear panel and the shade or gray can vary from panel to panel. I've seen NOS ones that were almost a dark gray and some originals that were a light gray.
I need to update the code description to say "Standard on SE JH 29 & JS29". :bigthumb:
Quote from: soundcontrol on June 13, 2017, 10:47:28 AM
Just used Codys new Fender TAG decoder, my A63 came up as:
Challenger Molding Group A = Belt Molding, Front Splash Pan Scoop Molding, Cowl Molding, and Rear Astrotone Painted Applique. SE (JH29 & JS29).
The tail panel, must be "Rear Astrotone painted Applique" is that the light grey paint?
Quote from: Cuda Cody on June 13, 2017, 11:14:27 AM
Yes, that's the rear panel and the shade or gray can vary from panel to panel. I've seen NOS ones that were almost a dark gray and some originals that were a light gray.
I need to update the code description to say "Standard on SE JH 29 & JS29". :bigthumb:
the mouldings are STANDARD on SE the "PACKAGE" is NOT
My SE rear finish panel has been a dark gray astrotone hue, along with the grill to match, since I've owned the car. If this info helps. Thanks, Al
Alan, you need to get out more. :)
Of the 6 S.E.s & WSSs I've owned, no two finish panels were the same color or texture. They went anywhere from a light argent (like on 70 wheel centers) to a dark argent (like 71 wheel centers). None had much of a texture. Two had been painted over with rattle can black. I need to take a peek at my NOS one and maybe snap a pic or two.
All these cars had the holes above the taillights.
Quote from: quapman on June 16, 2017, 04:03:29 AM
Alan, you need to get out more. :)
True dat :tired:
Mine was built 10/69 Panel is black. seems like just a plain flat black. Old topic Im new LOL using search feature ....
Quote from: 6bblgt on June 08, 2017, 05:37:17 PM
Challenger = painted Body Color
Challenger w/A63 (OPTIONAL) = Astrotone Painted Applique
Challenger SE = Astrotone Painted Applique
Challenger RT = painted Body Color
Challenger RT w/A63 (OPTIONAL) = Astrotone Painted Applique (black early)
Challenger RT/SE = Astrotone Painted Applique (black early)
Challenger T/A = painted Black
Just noticed this & had to comment... My R/T SE which had a black textured rear panels had a SPD of 723, certainly not an early car.... Actually rather late.... VIN was JS29U0B440289
Quote from: 1 Wild R/T on April 24, 2019, 09:53:36 PM
Quote from: 6bblgt on June 08, 2017, 05:37:17 PM
Challenger = painted Body Color
Challenger w/A63 (OPTIONAL) = Astrotone Painted Applique
Challenger SE = Astrotone Painted Applique
Challenger RT = painted Body Color
Challenger RT w/A63 (OPTIONAL) = Astrotone Painted Applique (black early)
Challenger RT/SE = Astrotone Painted Applique (black early)
Challenger T/A = painted Black
Just noticed this & had to comment... My R/T SE which had a black textured rear panels had a SPD of 723, certainly not an early car.... Actually rather late.... VIN was JS29U0B440289
old stock found at end of model year inventory clean-up :dunno: or other
@Ed (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/ed_4174) can you get some close up detail pics of your finish panel? Does the door sticker show "10-1969"?
Quote from: 6bblgt on April 24, 2019, 10:00:55 PM
Quote from: 1 Wild R/T on April 24, 2019, 09:53:36 PM
Quote from: 6bblgt on June 08, 2017, 05:37:17 PM
Challenger = painted Body Color
Challenger w/A63 (OPTIONAL) = Astrotone Painted Applique
Challenger SE = Astrotone Painted Applique
Challenger RT = painted Body Color
Challenger RT w/A63 (OPTIONAL) = Astrotone Painted Applique (black early)
Challenger RT/SE = Astrotone Painted Applique (black early)
Challenger T/A = painted Black
Just noticed this & had to comment... My R/T SE which had a black textured rear panels had a SPD of 723, certainly not an early car.... Actually rather late.... VIN was JS29U0B440289
old stock found at end of model year inventory clean-up :dunno: or other
@Ed (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/ed_4174) can you get some close up detail pics of your finish panel? Does the door sticker show "10-1969"?
If you'd like I'll get some pictures of the panel off my old R/T SE, it was beat up when I bought the car in 74 & I removed it & stuck it in the rafters back around 77.... I still have it & it's never been touched that I'm aware of......
that would be great - I'm sure it would still start an argument :dunno:
0B100021 still had its "black" panel - but it has been restored now :takealook:
Quote from: 6bblgt on April 24, 2019, 11:55:01 PM
that would be great - I'm sure it would still start an argument :dunno:
0B100021 still had its "black" panel - but it has been restored now :takealook:
What would the hobby be without an argument or two? :haha: I'll try to get by my shop & get a few photos... Might be a day or two...
Rear panel appears to be a black textured paint. the front is black but not textured What do you call the textured black organasol ?
Found this thread and read all the posts.
Does anyone have a panel with good chrome trim?
My panel is good but one of the trim pieces has a crack. Does anyone have ideas on fixing the crack if the panel with trim is unavailable?
Trying to put back together a 1970 Challenger that I am pretty sure was originally a WSS car but fender tag is gone. No build sheet either.
Quote from: cardudeporn on July 09, 2021, 10:39:21 PM
Found this thread and read all the posts.
Does anyone have a panel with good chrome trim?
My panel is good but one of the trim pieces has a crack. Does anyone have ideas on fixing the crack if the panel with trim is unavailable?
Trying to put back together a 1970 Challenger that I am pretty sure was originally a WSS car but fender tag is gone. No build sheet either.
Where is the crack at?
@cardudeporn (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/cardudeporn_12296)
passenger side about 1/2 down outside edge crack is about 1/2" long also a tiny nick down at the bottom
Not building a show car, but just found the crack and it will bug me to leave it there. Wondering about getting it filled and buffed down?
sorry don't know why it turned the picture sideways or how to fix it
Thank you I would love to have that piece but not sure I can justify the price and shipping would be risky and costly
Quote from: cardudeporn on July 10, 2021, 10:34:06 PM
passenger side about 1/2 down outside edge crack is about 1/2" long also a tiny nick down at the bottom
Not building a show car, but just found the crack and it will bug me to leave it there. Wondering about getting it filled and buffed down?
sorry don't know why it turned the picture sideways or how to fix it
Not my idea ( I Wild RT ?) I think it was but I read on here once a possible good idea is to cut it off down the center, flatten it out then tuck the flattened new " flange" ( trim to fit)under the regular molding. Not a "perfect/numbers matching/museum quality" fix but it would look nicer than what you have now?
https://www.rosevillemoparts.com/product/deck-lid-quarter-end-molding-70-challenger-left/
@cardudeporn (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/cardudeporn_12296)
That's pretty much what i did. JB welded mine on it. I'm satisfied with it. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210712/45cf72251dfa38201e8b27e049b76dde.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210712/960304fc781c9caf4b4b6e121273805d.jpg)
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