E-Bodies.org Cuda Challenger Forum

Technical Shop => Body Shop => Topic started by: Manuel on August 16, 2020, 09:06:58 PM

Title: Paint bubbles
Post by: Manuel on August 16, 2020, 09:06:58 PM

Hello,

!971 340 Cuda, painted by mercedes here in Guatemala some 20 years back.
When finished I inspected and found some very tiny bubbles in a section.  Really just 3 maybe but shop decided to strip to metal again and paint again. Great job.
Maybe 6 years later I saw them again.   More and more during the years.
I will try to put some pics to see if you all could help provide ideas for the cause for something like this.

Will paint the car again so looking for advise as for to prevent this from happening again. 
Car has been with a cloth cover and a plastic over that inside a hangar.
Drove it very seldom during those years.

Would also appreciate advise as to what paints to use for the different sections of the car. Want the best there is.
A honda dealer has a very good paint shop, they will do the job.
Will use hemi orange color, is there a code for them to make it here if I can not import your suggested brands?
Please include the paint/product to use for the front grill, the silver sandy finish.

Thanks for sharing your experience!

Best regards,

Manuel
Title: Re: Paint bubbles
Post by: Manuel on August 16, 2020, 09:18:21 PM

No corrosion history in any of the affected areas. 
Title: Re: Paint bubbles
Post by: Manuel on August 16, 2020, 09:24:48 PM

Another one
Title: Re: Paint bubbles
Post by: Manuel on August 16, 2020, 09:26:26 PM


Title: Re: Paint bubbles
Post by: RUNCHARGER on August 16, 2020, 10:06:57 PM
There are better paint guys than me here but that has to be stripped to bare metal IMO. It could be from bad surface prep or incompatible materials but none of that matters. It has to be stripped to bare metal, cleaned properly and carefully refinished with compatible materials.
Title: Re: Paint bubbles
Post by: 1 Wild R/T on August 16, 2020, 11:06:55 PM
Solvent pop... The top coat dried to quickly trapping solvent below the surface....   It was semi-common during that time period.. Paints were changing due to environmental concerns.. The new stuff wasn't great & lots of painters didn't know how to make the new products do what they wanted... Some guys mixed products with less than great long term results....

Unfortunately I agree with Sheldon, you need to take it down to bare metal...
Title: Re: Paint bubbles
Post by: JS29 on August 17, 2020, 06:39:52 AM
 :iagree: Solvent pop!   :yes:
Title: Re: Paint bubbles
Post by: Manuel on August 17, 2020, 07:45:36 AM

Tks for the replies Wild and JS, excellent Info. to know the cause. Makes sense.

We will for sure go dawn to metal.

Shop tells me they mainly use PPG Global paint.  How would you all grade that brand of paint?

It might be better to let them use the product they know well or is there a better brand that is handled the same as PPG and provide a nicer finish?

What do we have to buy in order to make that silver/grey sandy finish to the front grill??
Title: Re: Paint bubbles
Post by: torredcuda on August 17, 2020, 07:58:11 AM
As said solvent pop or maybe water in the air lines. PPG is a very good paint,you should be able to get the fomula for V2 Hemi Orange (Dodge) or Tor-red (Plymouth) in a new base/clear. 

https://www.autocolorlibrary.com/pages/1971-Plymouth.html
Title: Re: Paint bubbles
Post by: Skdmark on August 17, 2020, 02:37:30 PM
The textured argent paint for the grill will be difficult.
There are a couple of sources here in U.S., but I don't think they will be able ship the paint to you due to environmental regulations.

Alternatives if you can not get the paint made locally or have it shipped in:
1. Ship your grill to a restoration shop in the U.S. have them refinish and ship it back.
2. Strip the grill and paint the grill body color. Some EV2 71 Cudas have body color grills, while others have argent  (depending on build date).
Title: Re: Paint bubbles
Post by: Shane Kelley on August 17, 2020, 04:04:57 PM
I'm not trying to step on anyone's toes here. But...   That's definitely not solvent pop. Solvent pop looks like tiny pinholes close together and caused from the top skinning over to fast and the lower coats still releasing gases/solvents. Solvent pop reveals itself by the time the paint has started to cure. Looks nothing like these pictures.

I have seen this issue caused by a few different things. One thing that was mentioned is poor surface prep. Other possibilities are moisture in the air supply used to spray primer and or paint. This is my main suspect. Covering the car in a humid environment can cause this but the root problem leads back to paint prep or air supply quality. Climate controlled environment with some air movement would probably keep this from happening even with the prep issues.  :alan2cents:
Title: Re: Paint bubbles
Post by: Manuel on August 17, 2020, 05:19:36 PM

Thanks for the comments.

Think I should be able to request the textured argent paint be shipped by land.   Is it the light or medium tone?
How many cans of spray should I order?


Which is the best one to buy and were?
Title: Re: Paint bubbles
Post by: anlauto on August 17, 2020, 05:30:56 PM
I was going to guess moisture, but I don't know anything about paint so  :-X  :rofl:
Title: Re: Paint bubbles
Post by: Shane Kelley on August 17, 2020, 05:45:28 PM
71 is dark argent. 1 can will do your upper grill and lower trim with some left over.
Title: Re: Paint bubbles
Post by: Manuel on August 17, 2020, 07:30:20 PM


And would this be a good brand??
Title: Re: Paint bubbles
Post by: Manuel on August 17, 2020, 07:36:12 PM

Here,
Title: Re: Paint bubbles
Post by: Shane Kelley on August 18, 2020, 05:29:37 AM
I haven't sprayed that exact product so I can't really say how good it is. I have sprayed this guys stuff and I can say it's excellent. Texture and color look spot on. 1 can goes a long way as well.

https://8774paint1.com/

Title: Re: Paint bubbles
Post by: Manuel on August 20, 2020, 05:53:35 PM


Thank you Shane, 

Is there a PPG code for the dark grill paint??
Title: Re: Paint bubbles
Post by: Shane Kelley on August 21, 2020, 05:45:34 AM
Quote from: Manuel on August 20, 2020, 05:53:35 PM


Thank you Shane, 

Is there a PPG code for the dark grill paint??

I'm not sure about a paint code. But he list the different paints by application. He has the one you need listed "dark gray argent"
Title: Re: Paint bubbles
Post by: torredcuda on August 21, 2020, 06:27:51 AM
Quote from: Manuel on August 17, 2020, 05:19:36 PM

Thanks for the comments.

Think I should be able to request the textured argent paint be shipped by land. 


Yes, most paint and volatile chemicals automatically ship ground as they are not allowed in aircraft.
Title: Re: Paint bubbles
Post by: Manuel on August 22, 2020, 10:46:25 AM


Ended up buying the Dark grill paint from Roger Gibson restaurations.

Abaut $95 a qt.

Has anyone used it to know results?
Title: Re: Paint bubbles
Post by: Manuel on September 02, 2020, 07:46:40 AM
Here underneath the bubbles
Title: Re: Paint bubbles
Post by: anlauto on September 02, 2020, 08:22:46 AM
YIKES ! Are you going to repaint the whole car now ?
Title: Re: Paint bubbles
Post by: Manuel on September 02, 2020, 08:42:25 AM


Down to bare metal,  Repaint 100%

Q.
They are afraid that the chrome moldings around the windshield and rear window will bend when pulling them out.
Any ways to avoid that?
Do they sell the chromes?

Title: Re: Paint bubbles
Post by: anlauto on September 02, 2020, 10:02:09 AM
Quote from: Manuel on September 02, 2020, 08:42:25 AM


Down to bare metal,  Repaint 100%

Q.
They are afraid that the chrome moldings around the windshield and rear window will bend when pulling them out.
Any ways to avoid that?
Do they sell the chromes?

They do sell reproduction window trim, but with patience and the proper tool, the old ones should come off without bending.
Title: Re: Paint bubbles
Post by: Manuel on September 02, 2020, 01:48:01 PM


Good news, tks!

This also for Cuda´s?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgN5M1PWhBc
Title: Re: Paint bubbles
Post by: Shane Kelley on September 02, 2020, 01:56:35 PM
Is that white under the green a primer or body filler? Looks like a contaminated surface is your culprit. Up close do the little spots look like surface rust? All the trim should come off without damage if you just take your time. Probably one of the easier cars I have worked on for removing trim.
Title: Re: Paint bubbles
Post by: Manuel on September 03, 2020, 08:22:21 AM


No reason for filler.   Must be primer I guess.

Paint shop told me they believe this all was moisture between the primer and the paint and that the metal is still ok.

I will go to the shop today and see al in detail.

Having this help here is great.   

By the way, already have  1 pint of grill paint.   Do you all think it will be enough to do the front grill and wheel centers?

Thank you much!!
Title: Re: Paint bubbles
Post by: Shane Kelley on September 03, 2020, 10:17:46 AM
That should be just the right amount of paint for what your doing.

On the car. It looks to me like the moisture was on the metal under the primer. That's why the primer is popping loose I'm going with my original guess that moisture was in the air supply when they primed the bare metal.  :alan2cents:
Title: Re: Paint bubbles
Post by: Manuel on September 03, 2020, 03:16:40 PM

Good news that 1 pint will be enough.

Here a better pic of the bubbles
Title: Re: Paint bubbles
Post by: torredcuda on September 04, 2020, 01:59:33 PM
The metal is rusted/pitted, hard to say whether it was in the metal to begin with or moisture was trapped in there when doing prep or bodywork but no matter what that metal needs to be cleaned up of any rust before going any further or it will just come back again.
Title: Re: Paint bubbles
Post by: Manuel on September 04, 2020, 05:48:44 PM

The car had not one bubble when I took it for paint to Mercedes some 20 years ago.
They must have had moisture in their system I guess.

Agree with you, anything that was painted by them which is pretty much the whole car needs to go bare metal in order to remove any rust.

Rust is very superficial on the sampled areas.

I know its is very hard to give a figure but lets say there is no rust and you want to do a job like this with top quality PPG paint,  around how much could that cost in the USA?



Title: Re: Paint bubbles
Post by: Shane Kelley on September 08, 2020, 05:22:06 AM
It's all but impossible to quote a paint job on a older restored car in person let alone from pictures. Jobs like that are done by time and materials. Figure 10k and up.
Title: Re: Paint bubbles
Post by: Manuel on September 08, 2020, 06:43:33 AM


That gives me a good idea. Tks

The problem with my car was really something very isolated.  There are very good paint shops here in Guatemala and I hope this job will be top quality.

Fortunate for me labor is quite lower in this part of the world so my paint job will cost quite less than that.

Title: Re: Paint bubbles
Post by: Manuel on September 15, 2020, 11:08:15 AM


Paint shop tells me that the white coating was for some years standard at Mercedes Benz.

Kind of a thick initial primer.

Moldings came off ok.

Waiting for some sort of rust inhibitor to come from the USA and then go bare metal for all car.

Thanks a bunch.