Galen Govier once told me that nobody has ever deciphered what those numbers stand for. :dunno:
Sounds like we're going where no man has gone before :)
I've always wanted to know as well.
I always wanted to know more on that subject.
I had a little info on it, but not enough to satisfy me.
I'll see if I can dig it up in a couple days when I have time.
The theories above work, but not the torsion bar theory. Here's why (quick sample):
1 = 440+4 Challenger (32 trans)
1 = 426 Hemi Challenger (21 trans)
1 = 440+4 Challenger (32 trans)
1 = 440+6 Cuda (21 trans)
1 = 426 Hemi Cuda (21 trans)
1 = 426 Hemi Cuda (21 trans)
1 = 340+6 Challenger (32 trans)
1 = 383+4 Challenger (21 trans)
1 = 383+2 Challenger (32 trans)
1 = 383+4 Challenger (32 trans)
3 = 318 Challenger (31 trans)
3 = Slant 6 Conv (31 trans)
7 = 340+6 Challenger (32 trans)
7 = 340+6 Challenger (32 trans)
As shown above, we have 340 six packs with both 1 & 7. And 1 is by far the most popular in the small sample I just looked at. Here's two 340+6 cars built close to each other (and both sheets were pulled out of the same car). One has a 1 and the other is a 7. I've crossed out (in blue) things that are the same so we know it's not having to do with them.
Help me think in terms of things that come in 3's. There are 3 steering / gear shifters? :notsure:
~Column Shift Auto
~Floor Shift Auto
~Floor Shift Manual
Or maybe it has something to do with steering shaft coupler? But there's only 2 of those, right? Steering box or arm.... Manual, Power, and Fast Ratio? I'm just thinking out loud now. With the P & M being Power Steering and Manual Steering, what else would a working need to know that was working int hat area? Steering column information when the guy is installing it? Could it be a pulley for the pump?
click to enlarge photo
I wonder if it had something to do with actual heights , like if you had a certain tire combo and different leaf spring packs it was bound to cause different heights , they chose 3 different height codes as a way to double check when it was final assembled. Might catch hemi springs wrongly installed in a /6 car or that sort of thing? :notsure: Just a guess?
Quote from: Cuda Cody on March 04, 2017, 01:24:21 PM...do you guys know what the three numbers mean in line 5 under "CAR HEIGHT"?
all I found is:
The number is an internal factory number that measures the car height from either the lowest point of the steering knuckle to the ground to the lowest point of the adjusting blade to the groundQuote from: Cuda Cody on March 04, 2017, 01:24:21 PMHave you seen a sheet with an even number in that 3rd box or a 5 or 9? I've only seen 1, 3 and 7's.
on A, B and C-bodies I found a 5, on 73/74' E-bodies I found a 2
Quote from: Cuda Cody on March 04, 2017, 01:24:21 PM
on A, B and C-bodies I found a 5, on 73/74' E-bodies I found a 2
T/A AAR Exhaust? I'm guess that would be the lowest thing on an e-body? :notsure:
I thought I had an idea until Cody posted the T/A sheet with the "1"?? Is it possible that is a "typo", anyone else have a T/A or AAR sheet with anything other than "7"?
1 = F78-14 or F70-14 or E60-15 or F60-15 tires (T34, T35, T86, T87, U82, U84)
3 = E78-14 tires (T25, T26)
7 = E60-15/G60-15 tire combo (A53 & U01)
thought it was a height setting of the front suspension based on tire diameter, but I don't know what that number is or where it was measured from - or why manual/power steering would make a difference?? unless the factory had different alignment spec's added into the available combinations??
The factory repair manuals always tell you to measure from the adjusting blade when measuring ride height.
I like how you are thinking. Let me look for some more T/A sheets and see if we can find any with a "1".
Quote from: 6bblgt on March 05, 2017, 08:25:10 AM
I thought I had an idea until Cody posted the T/A sheet with the "1"?? Is it possible that is a "typo", anyone else have a T/A or AAR sheet with anything other than "7"?
1 = F78-14 or F70-14 or E60-15 or F60-15 tires (T34, T35, T86, T87, U82, U84)
3 = E78-14 tires (T25, T26)
7 = E60-15/G60-15 tire combo (A53 & U01)
thought it was a height setting of the front suspension based on tire diameter, but I don't know what that number is or where it was measured from - or why manual/power steering would make a difference?? unless the factory had different alignment spec's added into the available combinations??
the '70 Challenger/Dart "SERVICE MANUAL" shows just one height in the "front suspension spec's" :dunno: & the instructions for measuring
it does show different "CASTER" spec's for manual VS. power steering
at this point I would say the b'cast sheet's "CAR HEIGHT" is the factory alignment spec's & it was tweaked "in-house" for different factory available tire sizes - but published in a one-size-fits-all for service spec's
Wayne Voigt from our E-Bodies Facebook Group shared this one....
Quote from: 6bblgt on March 05, 2017, 08:25:10 AM
I thought I had an idea until Cody posted the T/A sheet with the "1"?? Is it possible that is a "typo", anyone else have a T/A or AAR sheet with anything other than "7"?
Went through some of the BS I have and not sure if relevant or not. But, in every case where there is a P, as in EP1, the car was coded S77 and when it had an "M" EM1, same if it had a "7" it was not coded. :clueless: :huh:
----------------------------
Did find one exception, and it will probably hold true, but on the AAR/TA on the power steering box code on the bottom of the page, instead of S77 they have an S74, possibly indicating the Fast Ratio box.
Here is a B Body sheet for comparison.
Quote from: Cuda Cody on March 05, 2017, 11:21:40 AMbut can you find any with a 31? Do you have any CAR HEIGHT 3's? What do they have for a trans? All the ones I have list a 31.
I found two 3's with 13 transmission
the following are all EM3/EP3: common to all of them is the E78-14 tire (T25/T26)
Barracuda EM3 318 3-spd T26 14x5.0" wheels
Barracuda EP3 318 auto T26 14x5.0" wheels
Barracuda 'vert EM3 225 auto T25 14x5.0" wheels
Gran Coupe EP3 318 auto T26 14x5.0" wheels
Challenger EP3 318 auto T26 14x5.0" wheels
Challenger EP3 318 3-spd T26 14x5.0" wheels
Challenger 'vert EP3 318 auto T26 14x5.0" wheels
Challenger EP3 225 auto T26 14x5.0" wheels
Challenger EM3 225 auto T26 14x5.5" wheels & S13 "rallye" suspension
The 3's all have 14" wheels in common. But is that a byproduct of them all having slant 6's and 318's or is the code used for something else that all /6 & 318's got anyway? If the 1,3 and 7's have to do with tires and or ride height then we would see some common pattern in the 1's and 7's, but we don't see any pattern, right?
Does anyone have a slant 6 or 318 without a number 3?
And then the question becomes What is different between slant 6's & 318's compared to all other engines that get the 1's and 7's? And why do some cars built within 1 hour of each other with the same engine get a 1 while the almost twin car to it gets a 7?
Has anyone seen a 7 on anything other then a T/A or AAR? Does this stand correct?
~7's = T/A or AAR
~3's = Slant 6 & 318's
~1 = All others and sometimes T/A's and AAR's
I found some different codes
Barracuda EP3 318 3-speed T34
Barracuda EM3 318 3-speed T64
Challenger conv. EM3 318 3-speed T34
Challenger SE EP3 318 3-speed T87
and a Cuda EM3 340 4-speed U82
(https://i58.servimg.com/u/f58/12/18/65/27/bs23h010.jpg)
sheet looks like a misprint, 3 (from car height) above the 1 (from master brake)
I think it is EM1 and 31 (master brake code), so nothing strange, just a reading mistakeQuote from: 6bblgt on March 05, 2017, 09:40:56 PM
the following are all EM3/EP3: common to all of them is the E78-14 tire (T25/T26)
Barracuda EM3 318 3-spd T26 14x5.0" wheels
Barracuda EP3 318 auto T26 14x5.0" wheels
Barracuda 'vert EM3 225 auto T25 14x5.0" wheels
Gran Coupe EP3 318 auto T26 14x5.0" wheels
Challenger EP3 318 auto T26 14x5.0" wheels
Challenger EP3 318 3-spd T26 14x5.0" wheels
Challenger 'vert EP3 318 auto T26 14x5.0" wheels
Challenger EP3 225 auto T26 14x5.0" wheels
Challenger EM3 225 auto T26 14x5.5" wheels & S13 "rallye" suspension
:thinking: Thank you Culvers for the help. :clapping:
Quote from: Culvers on March 06, 2017, 03:07:52 AM
I found some different codes
Barracuda EM3 318 3-speed T64
is this car a coupe "A93"? w/D78-14 tires?
the /6 LA sheet I posted here also shows EM3 https://forum.e-bodies.org/vin-fender-tag-build-sheet-and-date-codes/13/e-body-broadcast-sheet-reference-library-just-scanned-broadcast-sheets-please/804/
I think Ola Nilsson figured it out!!!! It looks to be a height setting for the front of the car based on tire size and or engine. All the early T/A's and AAR's got the same #1 setting but at some point they must have made a change to the T/A / AAR's. Looks like they went to a new front end height setting of 7 to set the front end height for the 340 six pack cars!!!! Here's his message from our Facebook group:
I looked in my AAR and T/A folders. I have found that the early cars have the "1". I have several Broadcast Sheets.
The first "7", that I have a Broadcast Sheet for is 0B279192 SPD 317So I wonder if
@6bblgt (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/6bblgt_211) might be able to pin point the sequence number that they made the change if we get him enough TA / AAR sheets?
it looks like the change will be between "SCHEDULED" dates, not "ACTUAL" :thinking: wonder if AAR & T/A made the change at the same point
313-SPD T/A = E_1
314 = Saturday
315 = Sunday
316-SPD ???
317-SPD T/A = E_7
SPD - 316
anyone have an AAR or T/A scheduled Monday 3/16/70 with a broadcast sheet (high 0B277xxx to low 0B278xxx) - it was a slow "TRANS AM" day, but possibly a good day to start a changed/new "procedure" :dunno:
or maybe it was slower because of the change in procedure?
From Ola Nilsson, no sheet but the Q in the VON is odd.