My major winter project this year is to install magnum manifolds and a factory style exhaust on my cuda. I am tired of scraping the crappy 25 year old headers every time I go out for a spin.
Some of you guys form the old board may recall I started this project two years ago, but decided to shelve it whiel I finished rebuilding the powere steering box. It seemed easier to make sure the steering worked properly without having to hook up a new exhaust system.
I sourced the manifolds from the white truck pictured below.
These are the cleanest ones I could find at the time.
I have made some progress with this and will post more in a bit.
Anyone else installed magnum manifolds on a LA block?
Jason
I have a set of the 93 larger port manifolds sitting. I have many of the same questions as you. Having searched different forums, there isn't much consensus nor photos of such an install. I hear the right side clears, but watch the oil filter angle adapter. On the left side(drivers) some say the manifold hits the steering box. The interference can be corrected by grinding a bit of material on the manifold. With that said some say they don't fit at all, while others say they have been running them for years. I don't know what to believe.
Right now I am not in a position to try this. I have them sitting for down the road when I am able to try them. If you're able to, please document your progress for the rest of the e-body community!
Instead of doing the magnum exhaust manifolds, I think you should drop in a new Hellcat crate Hemi ! It's only a few dollars more and it will really spruce up the engine compartment :alan2cents: :bigthumb:
One more thing you may want to check out before looking at exhaust manifolds. The comparison linked below between manifolds and headers. Uses an LA small block with magnum manifolds and a couple different headers.
http://www.hotrod.com/articles/comparing-headers-and-manifolds/
The Cliff Notes version:
Manifolds: 347tq / 292hp
Shorty Headers: 355tq / 316hp
Street Headers: 364tq / 325hp
Race Headers: 357tq / 323hp
Ok, here is where I got to last time...
I did get both manifolds installed, there is no questions that they will bolt to the engine. In fact the ports appear to be the same size as the ports on the head.
On the passenger side, the manifold required a little massaging on one of the bosses at the back as it the trans dipstick tube. Not a big deal.
There do not appear to be any issues with the oil filter. I am not running the 90 degree adapter.
On the driver side...not so good. The manifold just touched the power steering box. With standard steering I think it would fit no problem.
It is hard to see in the pics, but it touched just at the top of the box where the steering input comes in.
This is where I stopped last time.
We talked about a few issues and fixes, but like I say, I had other priorities at the time.
I have made some more progress and will post more.
Quote from: PLUM72 on November 30, 2017, 06:59:01 AM
I have a set of the 93 larger port manifolds sitting. I have many of the same questions as you. Having searched different forums, there isn't much consensus nor photos of such an install. I hear the right side clears, but watch the oil filter angle adapter. On the left side(drivers) some say the manifold hits the steering box. The interference can be corrected by grinding a bit of material on the manifold. With that said some say they don't fit at all, while others say they have been running them for years. I don't know what to believe.
Right now I am not in a position to try this. I have them sitting for down the road when I am able to try them. If you're able to, please document your progress for the rest of the e-body community!
I had read that this was a bolt in deal, which is why I went down this road.
Quote from: PLUM72 on November 30, 2017, 07:33:28 AM
One more thing you may want to check out before looking at exhaust manifolds. The comparison linked below between manifolds and headers. Uses an LA small block with magnum manifolds and a couple different headers.
http://www.hotrod.com/articles/comparing-headers-and-manifolds/
The Cliff Notes version:
Manifolds: 347tq / 292hp
Shorty Headers: 355tq / 316hp
Street Headers: 364tq / 325hp
Race Headers: 357tq / 323hp
I have seen similar stories. To be honest, power is not my ultimate goal right now. I want to quiet the car down and make it a nicer cruiser. I figured this would be cheaper then factory hp manifolds.
Jason
Ok, so here is where I am now.
Not wanting to grind to much on the manifold, I thought I would try new engine mounts, as mine are factory pieces, although not original to the car.
When I pulled them off, the new mounts look to be slightly shorter then the old factory pieces, so I figured that may not work.
While I had the mount off, I tried a quick 1/8 shim under the mount and K frame (I got the idea from another post).
As you can see in the pics below, that seems to work and puts a little bit of space between the manifold and the steering box.
My plan is to make a little bit thicker spacer for the new rubber mount and put them between the rubber isolator and the Engine bracket.
I figure that will give me a little more space.
I will admit that I am somewhat concerned about how close that manifolds are to the steering box. I am concerned about the heat to the steering box, but I guess it was not that much better with the headers, see the last pic.
Jason
just to be clear, I am kind of committed to this deal...
Jeez Jas, that's a kind of "burn the boats" approach don't you think? Let's look at the bright side, shall we, and call it "motivation", eh? :bigthumb:
Quote from: jimynick on November 30, 2017, 06:46:10 PM
Jeez Jas, that's a kind of "burn the boats" approach don't you think? Let's look at the bright side, shall we, and call it "motivation", eh? :bigthumb:
yeah it sure is...and not typically my style, but I just did not want to screw with the tie rods...so I pulled out the saw! :dunno:
Love it :ohyeah:
I bet you could smoothly trim a small amount from the surface of the manifold for clearance
Looks like you have a few options....
boregson steering box
shim motor mounts
wedge cut manifold
shim steering box
Quote from: Brads70 on November 30, 2017, 08:18:48 PM
Looks like you have a few options....
boregson steering box
shim motor mounts
wedge cut manifold
shim steering box
Yeah options are good!
I am going to try to shim the mounts first and see if that works. It seems to be the cheapest and easiest option right now. And I get to make some shims!!!
Jason
Well after a break over the Christmas break, I am back on this project.
Spent a little time this week making some shims for the engine mounts and tried mounting the everything up.
Still a few tweaks to make, but it looks like the new mounts and shims will work and give me just enough clearance to bolt up the manifolds.
I have about 1/8th of an inch clearance at the input side of the steering box.
I am a little worried about running these to be honest...THEY ARE REALLY CLOSE TO THE STERRING BOX!!! I am worried abut heating the box up and melting all the seals.
What to you guys think...would you run them with so little clearance, or would you try to find some 73 /74 LA Manifolds??
Here are a few pics...
Jason
You could grind the box some to get more clearance? I did on mine.
I've had them that close and it's worked. A nice piece of asbestos insulation would work well there. Of course that isn't doable these days but maybe a piece of header wrap or something of that ilk.
Bolt one of these on it & run it...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Power-Steering-Cooler-Dorman-918-319-fits-06-16-Ford-E-350-Super-Duty/292231872751?epid=2154298174&hash=item440a6080ef:g:RkcAAOSw43hZ-oiO&vxp=mtr
Quote from: 1 Wild R/T on January 14, 2018, 10:43:07 AM
Bolt one of these on it & run it...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Power-Steering-Cooler-Dorman-918-319-fits-06-16-Ford-E-350-Super-Duty/292231872751?epid=2154298174&hash=item440a6080ef:g:RkcAAOSw43hZ-oiO&vxp=mtr
:bradsthumb: I have something very close to that on mine with no issues.
Paint those when you are done Jason. Something like Eastwood cast manifold paint. As is they don't look like they belong in your engine compartment. :alan2cents:
Why is the 2 cents emoji called alan? :thinking:
Install a solid motor mount on drivers side and shim for clearance. Engine (and exhaust manifold ) won't go up and won't come down. Leave passenger side mount rubber so you won't vibrate everything lose, including your fillings. Driver side is your torque side and will keep the engine from slamming the bottom of the hood. (if running a rubber mount with high horse power)
Quote from: RUNCHARGER on January 14, 2018, 09:42:50 AM
I've had them that close and it's worked. A nice piece of asbestos insulation would work well there. Of course that isn't doable these days but maybe a piece of header wrap or something of that ilk.
That (header wrap piece) is what we did to protect power steering reservoir from fender well headers that have 1/8th in. Or less clearance. It protects it well. Just cut open the wrap, taped it with that metallic exhaust tape to get size and fit you want and used bailing wire to keep it in place.
Thanks for all the input guys, always appreciated.
But, I am having trouble wrapping my head around these...it is just so close to the steering box.
I have rebuilt the steering box an know how many rubber O-rings and seals are in the box, all of which will be less then an inch from the exhaust manifold...that is a lot of heat. I just think that the heat has the potential to melt all the O-rings and seal in the box...they what!!! :pullinghair: :pullinghair:
I think it may make more sense to find some stock manifolds and go from there. :notsure:
Jason
OR, get another set of headers. I recently saw they make block hugger ones should you be so inclined. Now you know why the factory had that weird upsweep to theirs, eh? :cheers:
Is your engine producing enough horse power to warrant magnum exhaust manifolds. What kind of heads are you running. Stock manifols should be readily available and flow fine for mildly built 318/360.
Quote from: GY3R/T on January 15, 2018, 07:49:48 PM
Is your engine producing enough horse power to warrant magnum exhaust manifolds. What kind of heads are you running. Stock manifols should be readily available and flow fine for mildly built 318/360.
Great question...but not my focus with this project. My car is a cruiser and I am just looking for a better solution for the exhaust. The old crappy headers I had would never seal and throw off a lot of heat..that any they bottomed out all the time.
That is my plan...look for a set of stock manifolds.
Quote from: jimynick on January 15, 2018, 07:47:29 PM
OR, get another set of headers. I recently saw they make block hugger ones should you be so inclined. Now you know why the factory had that weird upsweep to theirs, eh? :cheers:
Not sure I want to go the block hugger route, but may take a look. I think the upsweep was only for the HP 340 manifolds.
Jason
Any one know what kind of steering box clearance there was between factory cast manifolds and the power steering box? Doesn't matter big or small block, just looking for a number. This might would help the determine how close is too close.
I would think you could get more clearance by grinding some material away on the manifold in the tight areas. A Jet Hot like coating would keep things looking nice and manage the heat while providing some additional flow.
FWIW the upswept (driver's side) 340 manifold is the easier one to find of the pair as they were used on '71 A-body 340 cars.
Flow, IIRC is very similar between the late Magnum manifolds (360 in particular) and the '68-'70 340 ones, so you wouldn't have a big mismatch from side to side.
Post up on Kijiji and get ready to hit the first Ancaster meet?
Jeez: I didn't realize that 71 340 E-bodies used both the "junk" log manifolds. Yet the 71 340 is the best one due to the TQ. I wish I had known that when I was building sleepers back in the 70's.
Beleive it or not.. There's not a lot of difference in flow between 68-70 HP's and 71 logs.
Ok new plan!!!
I picked up these up today off of Kijiji!
Casting numbers are:
pass - 3418623
driver - 3418621
Which are for 71-73 340.
They need a little bit of work on the heat riser, but they will work!
Any suggestions on the heat riser, I have no interest in rebuilding it ($300 for the kit!!!)
Jason
Looking good Jason.
Can't wait to hear my previous mufflers and resonators roar to life once again.
The heat riser isn't really necessary on a hobby car IMO. If the shaft is not there you can just run a bolt across with a nut to seal the holes up.
Or tap the holes with a pipe tap & insert plugs
Quote from: Topcat on January 21, 2018, 04:43:16 PM
Looking good Jason.
Can't wait to hear my previous mufflers and resonators roar to life once again.
Yeah me too! been a long time coming.
Quote from: Chryco Psycho on January 21, 2018, 08:06:27 PM
Or tap the holes with a pipe tap & insert plugs
It looks like that is what some one did...but not well. I will likely drill out what's there and try that.
Jason
Don't wrench them in too tight and crack the casting.
Quote from: RUNCHARGER on January 22, 2018, 05:14:09 PM
Don't wrench them in too tight and crack the casting.
Yep, couldn't you use brass plugs? You'll not likely get it hot enough to pose a problem with them. Kenny over at Brant Performance in Brantford has a set of the upswept manifolds laying on a shelf. I saw them the other day and forgot to ask him what he'd take for them, should you be interested. As for the heat riser, is the original shaft still there Jason? If it is, we can get it loosened for you. Let me know if that's something we could help with, eh? :cheers:
Quote from: jimynick on January 22, 2018, 08:55:20 PM
Quote from: RUNCHARGER on January 22, 2018, 05:14:09 PM
Don't wrench them in too tight and crack the casting.
Yep, couldn't you use brass plugs? You'll not likely get it hot enough to pose a problem with them. Kenny over at Brant Performance in Brantford has a set of the upswept manifolds laying on a shelf. I saw them the other day and forgot to ask him what he'd take for them, should you be interested. As for the heat riser, is the original shaft still there Jason? If it is, we can get it loosened for you. Let me know if that's something we could help with, eh? :cheers:
Thanks for the offer Ian
@jimynick (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/jimynick_55) I think I am good with what I have.
No heat riser shaft left in the manifolds. I will likely try go with the brass plugs. Looks like there are sleeves in the manifold that have already been tapped. I will drill them out and tap them.
Don't worry I will post pics as I go!!!
I think I will hit up Accurate next week for some head pipes and maybe over the axle pipes.
Jason
Looks good. How much more clearance do you have with the old 340 manifolds over the magnum manifolds? I saw the pictures but looking for an dimensional estimate. I think you barely had an 1/8 inch with the magnums.
Well, I am making some progress, but as usual with me its slow.
Got the old exhaust off and all the hangers removed.
Time to install new hangers.
I have ordered new pipes, and I am working on cleaning up the manifolds.
I will have this thing up an running new month!!
:wrenching: :wrenching:
Why not see if someone like BBK makes shorty headers for your project?
Quote from: ZEN357 on March 02, 2018, 05:59:46 AM
Why not see if someone like BBK makes shorty headers for your project?
I figured for the cost / benefit they were just not worth it.
I am not after max power at this point, just trying to make the car more drivable over all.
hey look some progress!! :-[
cleaned up the manifolds, painted them and installed them!!!
I would probably have got a bit more done but its just been to cold.
Looks good