I'm finally getting around to doing some detailing in my engine bay. It includes correct hoses, clamps, carburetor, fuel line, battery cables, ignition wires and wire looms.
Looking for a detailed photos of restored and unrestored engine bays to follow along. Picture is worth 1000 words. Thanks in advance.
No pictures of a 383 engine bay?
Looking for proper ignition wire routing, fuel line, pcv routing and hoses, etc...
To avoid confusion you are referring to a mopar 383, Not a small block chevy like what you have pictured in your image correct? :pokeeye:
This is a '70 and an AC car, which I don't know if your car is, but this restoration was one of the top ones ever done on a 383 car, and I'm sure that a lot didn't change between 70 and 71.
https://www.moparaction.com/2016/03/16/pop/
Mopar Action has pictures of a unrestored T/A that Frank Badelson owns, and the under hood pictures that Mopar Action had were invaluable to me when detailing my cars engine compartment.
Dave W's white Challenger is actually a 440 car, but we get the idea...a lot of the same details... :)
Here's MY interpretation of a correct appearing 1971 383.
I'm not going to stand on a soap box and claim everything is 100% OE correct, but I think it looks the part :alan2cents:
Here's a 1970 383....it only looks stock....It's actually a stroker motor with aluminum heads and intake and an aftermarket carb... :D
:rubeyes:
Quote from: anlauto on October 13, 2020, 08:40:40 AM
Here's MY interpretation of a correct appearing 1971 383.
I'm not going to stand on a soap box and claim everything is 100% OE correct, but I think it looks the part :alan2cents:
Awesome, but do U have any with air cleaner removed?
How are the ignition wires ran? Where are the looms mounted?
I need a 71 air cleaner too...
It's only wire to the #8 cylinder that runs over the top. The original valve covers have tabs welded onto them to hold this wire away from the valve cover and intake. This wire runs down along the back of the passenger side valve cover to access the spark plug behind the collector section of the exhaust manifold.
Buy the plug wire loom kit, the instructions are pretty clear on where everything goes as far as plug wires.
https://www.rosevillemoparts.com/product/plug-wire-loom-kits-1970-71-big-block/
I would want at least $300 USD for the air cleaner shipped. it's in nice shape but would need to be restored.
Depending on how far you want to take things with the OEM look.
I would recommend having the MMC E-body fastener guide and judging manuals in your library.
https://shop.mmcdetroit.com/
Great compliments to the factory shop and parts manuals.
GG pocketbooks are also nice to have when hitting the swap meets.
Ok, so at least I have the correct valve covers.
Where do I get a heat riser for exhaust manifolds? Reproduced?
What about that coil? Where do I get a repop?
Roseville or Tony's Parts for heat riser
https://www.rosevillemoparts.com/?s=heat+riser&product_cat=0&post_type=product
https://www.tonysparts.com/e-body-parts
Year One, Classic Industries etc. for date coded coil
https://www.yearone.com/Catalog/challenger.cuda/electrical/ignition-coils-_-components/oem-style-date-coded
https://www.classicindustries.com/shop/search/ignition-system/stock-ignition/coils/
I'm interested in the air cleaner. Can you message me pics? Good condition but needs refinishing. Was it a krinkle finish on air cleaner from factory?
How do those dates work on the coils? 3 digits?
Are these correct for my 71 383 R/T?
Black wrinkle on dual snorkel in 71.
3 digit date codes - first two are the week and third is last digit of the year.
Example: 131 = 13th week of 1971
If you want someone's attention then put an "@" in front of their name.
The board will message them.
Example
@anlauto (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/anlauto_19)
Quite a few dual snorkle air cleaners were gloss black in 1971 including the 71 Challenger R/T I bought in 1979.
Is that choke and fuel pump correct?
Quote from: gpm6367 on October 26, 2020, 05:39:56 PM
Is that choke and fuel pump correct?
The picture of the fuel pump look correct but you would have to make sure it has a 5/16" inlet. Some 440's and Hemi's use 3/8".
As for the choke, you would need to know the make and model number of the carb you have to insure you're getting the proper one.
5/16 inlet and 3/8 outlet?
Is the OEM carb a 4160?
Let me know about the air cleaner.
For a stock 383 you want a Carter M4589 fuel pump.
It has nipples on inlet and outlet for 5/16 line.
440-4 HP and 440-6 uses a Carter M4845 fuel pump which has the threaded oulet that goes to a fuel separator.
The one in your picture looks like a M4845.
Either pump will physically bolt up and work on a 383, just different operating pressures.
The OEM Holley Carb on a 71 383 is a 4160 series.
Quote from: Skdmark on October 26, 2020, 08:16:02 PM
For a stock 383 you want a Carter M4589 fuel pump.
It has nipples on inlet and outlet for 5/16 line.
440-4 HP and 440-6 uses a Carter M4845 fuel pump which has the threaded oulet that goes to a fuel separator.
The one in your picture looks like a M4845.
Either pump will physically bolt up and work on a 383, just different operating pressures.
The OEM Holley Carb on a 71 383 is a 4160 series.
What I don't want to do is act without sufficient knowledge and replace correct parts. I saw the photograph and assumed I should have a threaded 3/8 line coming out of my fuel pump. I don't. I have a nipple on both inlet and outlet. Mine is a 71 383 and from what you're saying should have nipples on both? If that's the case it's not necessarily the wrong fuel pump.
If that is correct does a rubber line just come off the outlet at bottom of the fuel pump and bend upward to the fuel filter? As you can see a previous owner rigged a piece of bent steel line. The outlet comes out of the bottom and points at the ground. I'd love to see a picture of correct application with the 2 nipples.
It would appear than that the choke is correct for my car.
So just to be clear the upper photo is not the correct set up for my 71 383 ?
In my opinion the top picture is correct for a 1971 383, but where you're going wrong is with the 3/8". ALL 383 fuel lines are 5/16" so the pump would have 5/16" nipple inlet and 5/16" threaded outlet.
I'm trying to sell my air cleaner locally to avoid the hassles of shipping. Here's my ad:
https://www.kijiji.ca/v-engines-and-engine-parts/oakville-halton-region/1971-440-383-mopar-air-cleaner/1532056928
Gloss black.
Ok, I see. The one pictured above is 3/8 out.
On the air cleaner how about $300 plus $25 for shipping?
Hook a brother up. :)
Quote from: gpm6367 on October 27, 2020, 04:15:26 AM
So just to be clear the upper photo is not the correct set up for my 71 383 ?
The 71 service manual image is not 100% correct for a 71 383. Odds are it was a reused image taken pre-1970 and is possibly a 440.
The take away from that image is the use of a fuel filter (not a vapor separator) with a rubber fuel line going to the tube for the carb. As noted in the other thread by Alan, the fuel clamps should be keystone clamps and neither the corbin (spring) clamps in the picture nor a worm clamp.
Alan is of the opinion the 383 fuel pump would have a 5/16 threaded outlet. I'm of the opinion it has a 5/16 nipple outlet. Could very well be both were possible on the production line. There are sometimes more than one supplier. Carter is the most well known, but there was Airtex too.
The image below is from the 70 service manual and where I double-checked my numbers prior to my last response. I've also found a similar correlation to the number of different pumps in the 71 Parts manual, as well as, doing some searching on other forums and parts vendors ads.
Quote from: RUNCHARGER on October 27, 2020, 07:28:30 AM
Gloss black.
I see what you did there. :bigthumb:
My air cleaner was painted red, white and blue when I got the car 30 years ago.
I never had the benefit of having the original paint on it. For giggles I checked the ICCA judging guidelines for e-bodies and it calls out both black wrinkle and semi-gloss black for the dual snorkel. Personally, I like the wrinkle better. However, if I knew for sure my car was semi-gloss from the factory I would keep it that way.
I'll be the first to admit when I'm wrong as well....I'm no fuel pump expert :handshake:
I just know it would not be a combination of two different sizes like 5/16" in and 3/8" out....
Is the 5/16 output nipple come out at 45 degrees? In other words parallel to the floor?
The one in the car comes out the bottom and points to the ground.
Sell me your air cleaner? I'll pay $300 plus shipping. Any idea the cost?
Quote from: gpm6367 on October 27, 2020, 01:40:13 PM
Is the 5/16 output nipple come out at 45 degrees? In other words parallel to the floor?
The one in the car comes out the bottom and points to the ground.
Parallel to the floor. Not straight down.
Here's what I believe to be an original fuel pump from a 70 383.
Quote from: RUNCHARGER on October 27, 2020, 07:28:30 AM
Gloss black.
This one looks like it was gloss black too https://www.ebay.ca/itm/1971-Mopar-Dual-Snorkel-Air-Cleaner-383-440-4-Barrel-Carb-Carburetor/303642701192?hash=item46b283ed88:g:BR8AAOSwKaVfKaRL
Quote from: gpm6367 on October 27, 2020, 06:33:13 PM
Quote from: anlauto on October 27, 2020, 05:46:57 PM
Quote from: gpm6367 on October 27, 2020, 01:41:46 PM
Sell me your air cleaner? I'll pay $300 plus shipping. Any idea the cost?
@gpm6367 (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/gpm6367_6199) In order for me to take the time to box up my air cleaner, I would need a total of $350 USD funds in my PayPal account with you covering the PP fees on your end.
Net $350 to you via pay pal. Any issue with it coming through customs? What's your pay pal account?
I have to fill out customs paper work, but you won't have to pay any additional taxes with it entering the US. Yes, for me to net $350.00 USD you would send it family/friends or something.. I will PM you my PayPal info
Hugely helpful . I have a correct fuel pump, gas lines and clamps on the way.
How do you compress those keystone clamps?
Is there anything special about the OEM metal fuel filter? Or can I just get one from auto parts store?
Mine is an older restoration and there is plenty of paint on that motor. Wiped down the engine bay and will touch up around the water pump, thermostat housing and areas on intake before putting everything back together.
Another question.
Is this reservoir correct? Doesn't line up well with holes on inner fender.
Missing the motor. Will this work or is it a resto item?
The original pump had a metal case on the motor, sometimes gold cad plated. The one in your picture is black plastic.
Making this reproduction one a little more accurate....not 100% correct, but better then the generic plastic one.
https://www.megapartsusa.com/proddetail.php?prod=102-WH09C
The reproduction fuel filter has the Chrysler part number/logo/date code etc... which the over-counter ones won't obviously, otherwise very similar :alan2cents:
Who sells the gas filter?
Are the wire looms painted engine color?
A lot of vendors sell the filters, dated or Non-dated https://www.rosevillemoparts.com/product/fuel-filter-5_16-oe-non-date-coded/
Yes wire looms are painted engine colour on a big block typically, along with the PCV filter and the rubber grommets on the valve covers :alan2cents:
Another sample of why I don't like to ship stuff...It cost me $71.33 to send this air cleaner to Greg....that's just crazy... :o
Ouch.
It will go to good use!
Quote from: anlauto on October 28, 2020, 10:26:55 AM
A lot of vendors sell the filters, dated or Non-dated https://www.rosevillemoparts.com/product/fuel-filter-5_16-oe-non-date-coded/
Yes wire looms are painted engine colour on a big block typically, along with the PCV filter and the rubber grommets on the valve covers :alan2cents:
I noticed the straps on valve covers for wire harness on pass side was painted and thought wrong.
The throttle cable bracket all painted?
So do i paint the plastic holder on metal loom also?
I have 2 different bolt heads on my thermostat housing.
Which is correct?
Battery cables come with a black plastic strap to presumably secure the positive cable? Where?
Quote from: gpm6367 on October 30, 2020, 07:09:24 PM
Battery cables come with a black plastic strap to presumably secure the positive cable? Where?
To the upper shock stud that protrudes through the shock tower.
I don't think either of the above bolts are correct for the thermostat, but if I had to choose I would pick the one on the right with no washer. :alan2cents:
Thanks .
Is this throttle spring bracket and correct?
Negative Battery cable goes under the bolt?
Yes and yes. :bigthumb:
Thanks.
Coming along. Waiting for parts.
Under bolts and bracket?
Quote from: gpm6367 on October 31, 2020, 05:50:20 PM
Under bolts and bracket?
On top of the bracket, under the bolt
Why doesn't any of this stuff come with instructions?
Which fuel lines use the keystone clamps and how do you tighten them?
What is that metal bracket in the center of the set?
What about the PS pump? Keystone clamps too?
All the fuel lines use Keystone clamps.
There is a special tool to crimp them....I just use tile cutters.
The metal bracket is the fuel tank ground strap, clips on the sending unit and the main fuel line, over the rubber hose.
The PS hose uses the red squeeze clamps, which I don't see in your picture
What was refer d to as a squeeze clamp is called a Corbin clamp, NAPA stores carry them. :alan2cents:
This is the correct clamp for power steering return hose is the spring action hose clamp that you have to squeeze to install. They should also be red in colour like the picture.
QuoteWhat was refer d to as a squeeze clamp is called a Corbin clamp, NAPA stores carry them. :alan2cents:
The red clamp pictured above may be referred to by some as a "Corbin" clamp ???, but the more common Corbin clamp is the type used on cooling system hoses :alan2cents:
This type of Corbin clamp is used also on the vacuum hose for the power brake booster, also red in colour.
If you walk into a NAPA store and ask for a Corbin clamp, the counter guy is going to give you the one's in reply # 61 :yes:
Quote from: JS29 on November 04, 2020, 07:37:32 AM
If you walk into a NAPA store and ask for a Corbin clamp, the counter guy is going to give you the one's in reply # 61 :yes:
Yea...and they'll also ask you if your car is automatic or standard, 2dr or 4dr .... :haha: :haha:
The kit also has a small section of hose and two of the OEM spring type fuel line clamps and I'm wondering what those are for?
I have the red keystone clamps for the power steering hose. Can I use standard fuel line for the hose?
Where does the washer pump ground wire on the reservoir attach?
What is the proper routing for the long washer hose going to the reservoir? Does it go over the top of the firewall or under the electrical components on the firewall?
What "kit" did you buy and from where....let's start there :thinking:
PS Return hose should not be standard fuel line it should be 11/32"(possible 3/8")high pressure hose. Did you buy the PS Hose kit ? It should have different marking then the rest.
PS Return Hose
Looking back at your picture, it's hard to tell what all you have there. :rubeyes:
Some kits might include two of those spring style clamps for either side of the in line fuel filter...not exactly correct if you ask me, but not all kits are equal.
Ground wire for the windshield washer goes under this screw in photo:
I bought the red corbins for the ps pump, to replace these, but not the line. Where do I get the line?
I bought the complete fuel line kit from Mega.
What is correct routing for the long washer hose to the reservoir?
Quote from: gpm6367 on November 04, 2020, 06:37:56 PM
What is correct routing for the long washer hose to the reservoir?
This is where I route it. It gets one white plastic strap to itself in the corner of the firewall. Once the heater hoses are in place (not shown) I also run the windshield washer hose with the heater hoses in the black plastic loop at the shock tower (not shown), keeps it warm in the Winter :bigthumb:
Quote from: gpm6367 on November 04, 2020, 06:35:18 PM
I bought the red corbins for the ps pump, to replace these, but not the line. Where do I get the line?
I bought the complete fuel line kit from Mega.
I stole the above picture of the PS hose from Mega Parts website.
So things are coming along nicely. I'll have my carburetor back by the end of the week.
Now I'm not the sharpest knife in the draw, but shouldn't there be a bolt in there? That's the front of block to motor mount, no? Anyone know the size or length? I'll have to find one.
7/16"-20 (fine thread) X 2" long
Waiting on my carburetor and minor back ordered detail pieces.
Is this enough space? I can't move the positive cable any further off the engine pipe. It's not touching but I wish it was further away.
You can bend it away just a bit. Yes, it's a miserable tightness there for sure. I've never had one burn though.
Are they all that close? Someone else thought maybe I had wrong starter?
It's common for them to be close, yours is real close, I would guess it might be the aftermarket exhaust pipe more so then the starter :alan2cents:
Quote from: anlauto on November 19, 2020, 07:12:58 AM
It's common for them to be close, yours is real close, I would guess it might be the aftermarket exhaust pipe more so then the starter :alan2cents:
Great.
Any idea why the vacuum pod linkage contacts the choke? Was sold to me as an NOS choke for a 383 with Holly carb. Somethings not correct.
Hmmm, off hand I'd guess it was the choke coil. Mine has an indentation at that point. I'll try to get a pic for you if you like.
Got the pic. Could be yours is NOS but for a 2 bbl. This though is from a '70/383, but I would be surprised if there was a difference.
Is that a carb spacer as well?
It is. But I don't have a problem using a regular gasket. The spacer may help you squeak by though. You could also use the clip that secures the choke arm to the linkage.
Yes I need the clip. Not sure where to get it or spacer?
Those clips are hard to come by. Most of them face the other direction. I got mine at the junkyard years ago. I wonder if Holley has them? The spacer I got from a parts store years ago. I think they're still easy to get at most speed shops. Just bring in you regular gasket to match it up.
Quote from: moreparts on December 07, 2020, 06:13:10 PM
It is. But I don't have a problem using a regular gasket. The spacer may help you squeak by though. You could also use the clip that secures the choke arm to the linkage.
Is the spacer 1/2 inch ?
Quote from: moreparts on December 07, 2020, 06:13:10 PM
It is. But I don't have a problem using a regular gasket. The spacer may help you squeak by though. You could also use the clip that secures the choke arm to the linkage.
MEGA sells a set of phenolic spacers; were they used on Hemi cars? Why sold in pairs?
I assume the large vacuum port on lower front of carb goes to PCV off drivers side valve cover?
There is a small vacuum port on passenger side of carb and that likely goes to distributor?
What goes to that large vacuum port up top on passenger side?
What's the deal with this throttle cable? Seems too be too long and pedal feels weird.
Hose routing and connections.
:cool:
Quote from: Skdmark on December 08, 2020, 07:33:08 AM
Hose routing and connections.
Excellent thanks so much! Is that in shop manual?
Who sells correct throttle cable?
Those images are from the 1971 Dodge Chassis Service Manual.
There's a pdf of it in the e-bodies.org library available for download if you don't have a hard copy.
For a throttle cable, I would remove yours and measure it's overall length.
Then, I would contact Roseville and compare the length to what they carry for this application.
https://www.rosevillemoparts.com/product/b_rb-throttle-cable/
The diagram is for a 70?
I don't have the same return spring bracket.
How is that pcv line run? In front of? Not under?
Return spring bracket appears to be incorrect.
For a 71 383 it should have a hole in the middle. The hose runs through the hole.
https://www.rosevillemoparts.com/product/throttle-return-spring-bracket-1970-1972-big-block-non-a_c/
Interesting as someone told me this one was correct.
Is it repopped?
Mine is a 1970 383 RT. This is the correct bracket and PCV hose routing for my car. Yes, the bracket is readily available.
Quote from: gpm6367 on December 19, 2020, 07:09:12 AM
Interesting as someone told me this one was correct.
Is it repopped?
Yes. See the link to Roseville in my post.
I have the same bracket on my '71 383 as headejm and the picture I posted from the ICCA manual.
:stop:
Quote from: moreparts on December 07, 2020, 05:03:40 PM
Got the pic. Could be yours is NOS but for a 2 bbl. This though is from a '70/383, but I would be surprised if there was a difference.
There's a lot of pressure on that choke holding it closed. Is the choke adjustable?
Ok do I have the wrong throttle cable or am I just missing a pin and clip ?
Coming along
You're missing this whole stud: https://www.megapartsusa.com/proddetail.php?prod=101-CS900
Is your car auto or manual ? The above stud is for auto...manual is different :alan2cents:
:rubeyes:
Quote from: anlauto on January 01, 2021, 11:50:21 AM
Is your car auto or manual ? The above stud is for auto...manual is different :alan2cents:
Manual. I just ordered 4 spd version thx.
What about choke adjustment?