Due to a personal dislike for bead rolled quarter patches (that were done very nicely) I've opted to replace both quarters on my 70 Challenger. Having worked in the body shop business when throwing lead in a sail panel was no big deal, I'm a tad bewildered at learning mother Mopar didn't lead the sail panels on vinyl top cars. Mine is one of them and that holds true. No lead, just filler. I'm going back totally original and the vinyl top will be replaced. My question is, do I lead anyway or do it like the factory did? 50 years and no cracks in the original. Also, did they still lead where the quarter meets the rocker on VT cars? That had already been tampered with on mine.
Kevin
I've always used the fiberglass reinforced body filler there and never had a problem. I think the key it to prep it properly.
The vinyl top will allow you to do either option and it will look and hold up fine. Painted tops I always lead them in. :alan2cents:
Weird... my 73 VT Challenger was leaded and will be again.
I have two vinyl top cars, both 1970. One has lead and the other plastic. I just used lead on mine and it came out great. Hardest part is getting the hang of applying lead on a vertical surface but I got it done with lots of patience.
I'd use lead if you have the stuff and have done it before.
Quote from: 7E-Bodies on July 23, 2019, 02:40:56 PM
Due to a personal dislike for bead rolled quarter patches (that were done very nicely) I've opted to replace both quarters on my 70 Challenger. Having worked in the body shop business when throwing lead in a sail panel was no big deal, I'm a tad bewildered at learning mother Mopar didn't lead the sail panels on vinyl top cars. Mine is one of them and that holds true. No lead, just filler. I'm going back totally original and the vinyl top will be replaced. My question is, do I lead anyway or do it like the factory did? 50 years and no cracks in the original. Also, did they still lead where the quarter meets the rocker on VT cars? That had already been tampered with on mine.
Kevin
FWIW That filler doesn't look anything like the filler I've seen in other 70 E bodies... It looks more like stuff that showed up in the 80's & newer products...
The original 70 vintage stuff is brown-orange & it usually has cracks that are hidden under the vinyl top..
All of the high end resto shops that I have spoken to advised me to keep away from lead? They claim modern body filler is much superior to lead. They claim that lead can lead to problems down the road?
I think they stay away from it because it's a lot more difficult and time consuming compared to plastic fillers. All the factories used lead and they lasted for half a century with no problems. I've had lots of cars with lead in them and I don't recall one of those joints having problems.
If you want problems, plastic filler on seams is a good way to make them.
Quote from: 750-h2 on July 28, 2019, 06:08:31 AM
All of the high end resto shops that I have spoken to advised me to keep away from lead? They claim modern body filler is much superior to lead. They claim that lead can lead to problems down the road?
There are plenty of places where plastic works great... But there are definitely places where it fails....Like the tops of E body convertible quarter panels where they join the dutchman panel...
Lead can have issues mostly due to poor prep or application but if done properly it will take flexing & stresses that plastic can't possibly survive...
Quote from: 750-h2 on July 28, 2019, 06:08:31 AM
All of the high end resto shops that I have spoken to advised me to keep away from lead? They claim modern body filler is much superior to lead. They claim that lead can lead to problems down the road?
:iagree: I've head the same info here too................either way....if one or the other aren't applied properly....you'll have problems :alan2cents:
Lead definitely takes more work. The prep has to be perfect. I can't imagine a shop, where time is money, telling it's customers that lead is better but we don't use it because my guys just don't have the patience and experience.
Quote from: anlauto on July 28, 2019, 07:18:16 AM
Quote from: 750-h2 on July 28, 2019, 06:08:31 AM
All of the high end resto shops that I have spoken to advised me to keep away from lead? They claim modern body filler is much superior to lead. They claim that lead can lead to problems down the road?
:iagree: I've head the same info here too................either way....if one or the other aren't applied properly....you'll have problems :alan2cents:
o your saying the Purple Vert you just finished wasn't done in lead? Good Luck... :rofl:
So @1 Wild r/t you're saying I should lead tat the quarter/Dutchman panel? I've never seen that.
Quote from: 7E-Bodies on July 28, 2019, 09:08:52 AM
So @1 Wild r/t you're saying I should lead tat the quarter/Dutchman panel? I've never seen that.
Only convertibles have the quarter/Dutchman panel filled with lead, NOT hardtops :alan2cents:
Quote from: 1 Wild R/T on July 28, 2019, 07:55:46 AM
Quote from: anlauto on July 28, 2019, 07:18:16 AM
Quote from: 750-h2 on July 28, 2019, 06:08:31 AM
All of the high end resto shops that I have spoken to advised me to keep away from lead? They claim modern body filler is much superior to lead. They claim that lead can lead to problems down the road?
:iagree: I've head the same info here too................either way....if one or the other aren't applied properly....you'll have problems :alan2cents:
o your saying the Purple Vert you just finished wasn't done in lead? Good Luck... :rofl:
On all the convertibles I've restored we actually weld the seam solid so it doesn't require any filler. In order for that seam to crack the car would have to flex quite a bit in order to crack the actual weld. :alan2cents:
Quote from: anlauto on July 28, 2019, 09:25:26 AM
Quote from: 7E-Bodies on July 28, 2019, 09:08:52 AM
So @1 Wild r/t you're saying I should lead tat the quarter/Dutchman panel? I've never seen that.
Only convertibles have the quarter/Dutchman panel filled with lead, NOT hardtops :alan2cents:
Exactly... And convertibles flex more so those areas are highly stressed.... I've been involved in about a dozen E body convertible restorations & we've tried allot of methods to fill those seams, On a couple cars we've redone that seam using different methods looking for the answer.. The only fix that has truly held up is lead...
Quote from: anlauto on July 28, 2019, 09:25:26 AM
Quote from: 7E-Bodies on July 28, 2019, 09:08:52 AM
So @1 Wild r/t you're saying I should lead tat the quarter/Dutchman panel? I've never seen that.
Only convertibles have the quarter/Dutchman panel filled with lead, NOT hardtops :alan2cents:
So dumb question then, when installing new quarters or even a new Dutchman panel. What do you do to keep water from coming into the trunk after installed? Obviously there's something more than just a couple of spot welds.
My body shop will but a bead of seam sealer along the joint just before the painting process starts, then with a damp finger they remove most of it while pushing it down into the seam .
:iagree: I use wax and grease remove on my finger to spread out the seam sealer. All joints should have seam sealer. :alan2cents:
Agreed! Thank you very much for the tip! :cheers:
mmmm.... My was leaded. I replaced the roof and used Eastwoods "lead" kit, which is obviously not lead anymore. I had no idea it was leaded until I tried to remove it and found it. It made the removal a bit easier since I just had to melt it out. The worse part was cutting out all the spot welds. That sucked.
I actually enjoyed learning to do the body soldering stuff. It wasn't too hard. I'm no body man, but as I understand, filler shouldn't be real thick. Perhaps there is different filler or fiberglass that can be applied much thicker. The quarter to roof seam would need a LOT of filler.
I didn't replace the how quarter panel, but I put in a patch and there wasn't any lead where the panels meet. I'm not even sure if there was seam sealer down there. It was a pretty tight fit.
Here is a pic where you can see the old lead. I peeled off the roof and laid the new one on to check the fit. You can see the silver lead between the black roof and yellow body.
I didn't have any experience with it and found leading to be fairly easy and forgiving. You can always remelt the lead. Once filler dries, your stuck with it. The biggest trick was making sure there was enough flux applied so it would stick and getting a handle on the melting point and the best temperature to work it. A tad too much and it becomes liquid and runs, and a tad less and it doesn't move. This is worse cause you're working on a vertical surface. The dutchman or deck filler panel would be easier since it is horizontal.
I can't remember what I actually did, but I didn't solder those seams. Mine was too far gone to actually notice what they did, but I don't recall any lead in the dutchman panel. It was spot welded tightly and probably had seam sealer, but I have no idea. I took a bunch of photos of different cars at car shows so I could see what the looked like. If your interested I could upload them here or elsewhere if they would be useful
Not sure if any of these will help but here you go
and some more