This might get confusing at a cruise night.... https://www.cars-on-line.com/gen3-cars/col1/posting/98118
Plymouth Cuda Convertible. Let me start with this first. This car has a BS27ROB VIN. Numbers & matching title, cowl, core support, & block. With the research that's been done IT IS NOT A REAL HEMI CONVERTIBLE. This reflects in the price of the car.
BEAUTIFUL CAR :drooling:
So whats the deal with the VIN and it not being a "real" hemi vert? BS27R should be a Cuda Hemi vert, right?
Was this one of the known VIN's? I heard that almost all of the R code convert Cuda's were known and accounted for?
Another French connection Hemi perhaps?
:thinking: :popcorn:
I don't know the car, but I'm guessing someone just changed the fifth digit in the VIN to a "R" and had new tags made up :dunno: The current seller is a pretty reputable Dude in the Mopar hobby, so the car must be known in most circles (except mine :haha: )
P.S. All of the Hemi verts are known...unless more export versions show up. :alan2cents:
What I've heard is that several years ago someone had six sets of false hemi convertible numbers. Several of them ended up on cars and I believe this is one of them. GG at the time looked at one or more and concluded that they were not real. All real cars are known.
Quote from: anlauto on March 27, 2019, 07:35:39 AM
I don't know the car, but I'm guessing someone just changed the fifth digit in the VIN to a "R" and had new tags made up :dunno: The current seller is a pretty reputable Dude in the Mopar hobby, so the car must be known in most circles (except mine :haha: )
P.S. All of the Hemi verts are known...unless more export versions show up. :alan2cents:
Although I'd love to have that car, I wouldn't take it if you gave it to me. That's a felony waiting to happen... :thumbdown:
Outstanding looking ride... Not that I'm a player on it but wonder how something like this would be to import into Canada with a VIN issue?
:yes: That is beautiful. The B7 paint is amazing!! 8) That looks like a great buy even for a recreation. However, Stroker could be on to something there. If not cleated up you could end up without the car or your money. :crying:
Sounds like the paper work has been straightened out and it has a matching title, so what's to worry about ? :dunno: Don't think it would be advertised world wide if there was any chance of someone trying to commit fraud :thinking:
Quote from: anlauto on March 27, 2019, 09:44:17 AM
Sounds like the paper work has been straightened out and it has a matching title, so what's to worry about ? :dunno: Don't think it would be advertised world wide if there was any chance of someone trying to commit fraud :thinking:
It sounds as though it has a title with the ROB VIN numbers, which is fake. I would not touch this one unless it had the original VIN number title and original VIN number tag.
Quote from: kdcarman on March 27, 2019, 09:51:26 AM
Quote from: anlauto on March 27, 2019, 09:44:17 AM
Sounds like the paper work has been straightened out and it has a matching title, so what's to worry about ? :dunno: Don't think it would be advertised world wide if there was any chance of someone trying to commit fraud :thinking:
It sounds as though it has a title with the ROB VIN numbers, which is fake. I would not touch this one unless it had the original VIN number title and original VIN number tag.
well if it has a matching title then someone has washed the paperwork thru a state like Alabama where its possible to get a clean title........so once thats done your average DMV would not raise a red flag......plenty of car titles coming clean again even in todays world....
I inquired the other day on a 1971 r code car. The guy said it was a clone from a 383 car and a VIN from a Hemi car. A guy in Ohio bought it 2 weeks ago. I listed the Vin on that post also. He had paperwork and all.
I wouldn't want to own it either, HOWEVER ...there is an ass for every seat and I don't doubt he'll sell it.... and at least the truth is out there :alan2cents:
Quote from: anlauto on March 27, 2019, 12:03:03 PM
I wouldn't want to own it either, HOWEVER ...there is an ass for every seat and I don't doubt he'll sell it.... and at least the truth is out there :alan2cents:
That settles it then, drop it off in my driveway and I'll run the wheels off it all summer! :D
Quote from: 318Stroker on March 27, 2019, 01:06:01 PM
Quote from: RzeroB on March 27, 2019, 12:34:21 PM
Quote from: JS29 on March 27, 2019, 06:25:18 AM
@RzeroB (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/rzerob_126) might know the answer to this mystery!
Sorry to let you down JS, but I don't know anything about it.
It is intriguing though ...
Interesting that the seller's name is Ken, and he's in Danville IN. The Finer Details restoration shop is in Danville, and it's owner (former that is) is Ken Mosier. I'd think it would be a safe bet to say that Ken Mosier is the seller. Those guys can do some high level work and could easily create a "numbers matching" BS27R0B car out of a lesser machine. But "why" and to what end I couldn't say.
Car was advertised by Ken on Moparts a few months back. The ad was upfront about the numbers, but I can't understand why he would want to be associated in any way with the sale of that car.
Maybe he built it for somebody and never got paid. :dunno:
where to start? :notsure:
I believe 4 such cars were "invented" in the late'80s/early '90s by one individual (3 - '70 hemi'cuda convertibles & 1 - '70 HEMI Challenger R/T convertible) altered VINs: changed 2nd & 5th digits
actually that's just the "tip of the iceberg"
BUYER BEWARE!! :barf:
I think I'm beginning to understand all you "up tight "restorers about build sheets and fender tags. Without them and any other documentation bill of sale ,repairs etc. How do you tell the difference between a fake and a "1 of 25 cars" MY A66 is one of ?? 38 years ago it was no motor, no tranny , no seats . $250 Can or $175 U.S .Nobody, I think cared about build sheets or fender tags.Never really thought it would ever be worth much. But that was then. Now with cars bringing big $$$$ , It seems there are, more fake convertibles, true hemi's, Change a grille and add $5-10,000 in value. Thankfully there's forums like E-bodies and it's members to help educate us all.
Yes: Cloning a Rembrandt and signing your own name on it is no big deal. Telling everyone it is a true Rembrandt, forging Rembrandts signature and selling it for big $$$ is a big deal.
There was a "hemi cuda" convertible on display at an auto brokerage near me in the northwest Chicago suburbs during the 90s and early 2000s. It was FC7 with a black interior. The brokerage owner told me it was real, but it was roped off in the showroom so you couldn't look at the VIN.
One time I mentioned it to Galen Govier and he knew about it, but said it was fake.
At some point, the brokerage owner got charged with fraud and his brokerage closed down. Then not too long afterwards, I saw the car listed at another brokerage nearby, Volo Auto museum.
The rumor going around was that the brokerage owner had got busted for using the fake hemi cuda convertible as collateral for a large 6 figure loan.
I've wondered if that car actually had a faked BS27R0B vin. Anyone familiar with it?
Quote from: 6bblgt on March 27, 2019, 09:56:01 PM
where to start? :notsure:
I believe 4 such cars were "invented" in the late'80s/early '90s by one individual (3 - '70 hemi'cuda convertibles & 1 - '70 HEMI Challenger R/T convertible) altered VINs: changed 2nd & 5th digits
actually that's just the "tip of the iceberg"
BUYER BEWARE!! :barf:
Was the guy from Boca Raton FL?
Reason I ask is when I was younger, mid 80s, I bought some parts from a guy and he was showing me a bunch of blank VINs and telling me how he was making a Hemi car. I thought, big deal, who cares.
I ended up having to take him to small claims court to get my money back for a Dana rear end he never delivered. Pretty sure he worked at IBM at the time.
Quote from: JH27N0B on March 28, 2019, 04:23:37 PM
There was a "hemi cuda" convertible on display at an auto brokerage near me in the northwest Chicago suburbs during the 90s and early 2000s. It was FC7 with a black interior. The brokerage owner told me it was real, but it was roped off in the showroom so you couldn't look at the VIN.
One time I mentioned it to Galen Govier and he knew about it, but said it was fake.
At some point, the brokerage owner got charged with fraud and his brokerage closed down. Then not too long afterwards, I saw the car listed at another brokerage nearby, Volo Auto museum.
The rumor going around was that the brokerage owner had got busted for using the fake hemi cuda convertible as collateral for a large 6 figure loan.
I've wondered if that car actually had a faked BS27R0B vin. Anyone familiar with it?
was it Chicago Muscle Car Exchange?
Quote from: Katfish on March 28, 2019, 04:45:19 PMWas the guy from Boca Raton FL?
Reason I ask is when I was younger, mid 80s, I bought some parts from a guy and he was showing me a bunch of blank VINs and telling me how he was making a Hemi car. I thought, big deal, who cares.
I ended up having to take him to small claims court to get my money back for a Dana rear end he never delivered. Pretty sure he worked at IBM at the time.
no, oHIo
Quote from: 6bblgt on March 28, 2019, 11:19:18 PM
Quote from: JH27N0B on March 28, 2019, 04:23:37 PM
There was a "hemi cuda" convertible on display at an auto brokerage near me in the northwest Chicago suburbs during the 90s and early 2000s. It was FC7 with a black interior.
At some point, the brokerage owner got charged with fraud and his brokerage closed down. Then not too long afterwards, I saw the car listed at another brokerage nearby, Volo Auto museum.
The rumor going around was that the brokerage owner had got busted for using the fake hemi cuda convertible as collateral for a large 6 figure loan.
I've wondered if that car actually had a faked BS27R0B vin. Anyone familiar with it?
was it Chicago Muscle Car Exchange?
No, the defunct brokerage was named Northern Illinois Classic Auto Brokers and the owners name was Tony, though i don't recall his last name.
Why don't we just name the guy ?
Another Hemicuda convertible appears on eBay.
BS27R0B179102
More pics..
Link: https://www.ebay.com/itm/-/264304314387?fbclid=IwAR1HskRkpB6PF2d_mF9FcJPNhHFGh6IxQDdLlIVoieb7l-pp_qRqqNfWifk