Sometime this year, I want to patch the area under the battery tray. Yay for battery acid in a 50 year old car.
Making the metal myself is going to be super time consuming and I'm not even sure if I can do it because on the size of the area. The entire length under the battery tray, and some vertical areas need to be patched.
This has to be super common, and I'm betting many of you conquered this somehow. As far as I can tell, NO one makes a patch area for this. It seems a waste to have to cut out an original inner fender for just rust around the battery area too....
Buy a replacement inner fender and just use what you need to fix the area.
:iagree: Yup, or do it properly and replace the entire inner apron :alan2cents:
I'm cheap and made my own, only took a couple hours to fix.
That to me is proper. Good work.
Pulling out a inner fender...which BTW is welded on, for the battery area seems wasteful. I hope to do the same goodness that you did.
Quote from: Brads70 on May 29, 2019, 06:10:03 PM
I'm cheap and made my own, only took a couple hours to fix.
:worship: Nice workmanship as always.
I'll admit NIKKI has a real UGLY patch that was done before I got her. But well hidden so I've not had the motivation to redo.... :notsure:
I bet I could make it inviisible. Grind the backside, seam seal, and blend undercoat.
Wouldn't you know it...............
Lunch of champions :banana:
Can't beat Anne!
I moved my battery to the trunk and just welded the area solid :Stirring:
Here's mine. A bit worse...looks like some "jimmy rigs" to keep battery in place.
Not worrying about it now...but it's about to pass my threshold of a new inner fender.
BTW...this is a low rust car. Hard to believe a battery can do this , but it did.
Knowing me...I'd rather patch it...again..I'm at threshold. For now I will use rust conversion spray. Prime it, and deal with it later.
I'm going to attempt to patch this. What gauge steel is this?
For the time being I will rust treat and prime it..
Buy this & section out what you need... :alan2cents:
https://www.partsgeek.com/gbproducts/AC/14530-04242054.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=ff&utm_content=AYY&utm_campaign=PartsGeek+Google+Base&utm_term=1970-1974+Dodge+Challenger+Inner+Fender+Action+Crash+GMK212035070L+Front+Left+-+Driver+Side+70-74+Dodge+Inner+Fender+1973&fp=pp&gbm=a&utm_source=google&utm_medium=ff&utm_campaign=PartsGeek+Google+Base&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI2eDM_9zS4gIVirxkCh08HQiyEAQYASABEgLaO_D_BwE
That would be much easier to do...
Looks like I would use about 20% of the panel. Basically, where the battery sits downward.
Great winter project!
It's getting closer as we head into winter. I'm considering now to be on the lookout for a driver's inner fender in order to cut up and patch. Keep an eye out guys for a panel!
Ack. I just fabricated a piece. Wasn't too hard. It was the pieces directly under the tray about 4" by 8-10". It worked out well. Just drilled out the holes for the bolts about 2 weeks ago.
In full agreement here with buying the full panel. Do it once, do it right.
I disagree with changing the whole panel. Destroying all the factory spot welds and removing all the left front sheetmetal and trim to repair a small 8" X 12" piece. It can easily be fabbed and butt welded into place then welds polished and you'll never know it was done.
Quote from: kawahonda on September 26, 2019, 08:30:52 AM
It's getting closer as we head into winter. I'm considering now to be on the lookout for a driver's inner fender in order to cut up and patch. Keep an eye out guys for a panel!
Here you go. Less than $20
https://www.speedymetals.com/pc-2683-8244-00598-cold-rolled-steel-sheet.aspx
You can save on shipping if you look locally.
Quote from: RUNCHARGER on September 28, 2019, 08:35:39 AM
I disagree with changing the whole panel. Destroying all the factory spot welds and removing all the left front sheetmetal and trim to repair a small 8" X 12" piece. It can easily be fabbed and butt welded into place then welds polished and you'll never know it was done.
:iagree:
Here's the area under discussion. I don't know if I trust my abilities to bend curvature in metal without having the proper tools?
If I patched it, I'd probably do something like this. First thing is first though, and that is the wire-wheel the dickens out of that zone and better assess the sheet metal.
All you need to form metal is a claw hammer a 2x4 and some tin snips. You need a welder to weld it in though. If you have some time, before going forward mess around with some scrap sheetmetal. Make some patterns with light cardboard, then black marker those images onto some sheetmetal and see if you can form a patch from a single piece. I would start with forming that top edge where it transforms from horizontal to vertical. You can hammer the metal over a piece of about 1/2" pipe to get the right contour. Once you are happy with that then form the down curves that are inward.
You want to make the piece before you cut the old rust all out so you have a good idea what the shape is supposed to look like.
You would be surprised what you can do with simple hand tools, time, and some determination. This was my trunk when I got the car. Not ready to do a proper pan, drops, and quarters but I need it whole so I can drive it as I worked on it. Every piece was formed without a brake roller or anything fancy. Clamps, bars, hammers, and a sturdy table did the work. Yeah it looks like Frankenstein, but it is solid and I did it myself. Learned a few things too. Like I should have kept the bottom flat closer to the frame rails so the exhaust hangers would bolt in flat, but I can adjust for that.
That area around the battery might take an hour or two to form, but is eminently doable.
Metal fab isn't terribly hard, or atleast a lot can be done fairly easily. You could try it and see. If it doesn't work you only loose a little bit of time and not much money. Another option if you don't mind spending some money is to buy the panel then cut out the piece you need so you don't have to replace the whole thing. To me that is too expensive and too much of a waste.
Not sure if you had welding experience, but sheet metal isn't the easiest thing to do if you haven't done it before. I made a mess of if and never got the hang of it.I made it work and became an expert grinder though. LOL.
Quote from: tparker on September 30, 2019, 12:16:40 PM
Metal fab isn't terribly hard, or atleast a lot can be done fairly easily. You could try it and see. If it doesn't work you only loose a little bit of time and not much money. Another option if you don't mind spending some money is to buy the panel then cut out the piece you need so you don't have to replace the whole thing. To me that is too expensive and too much of a waste.
Not sure if you had welding experience, but sheet metal isn't the easiest thing to do if you haven't done it before. I made a mess of if and never got the hang of it.I made it work and became an expert grinder though. LOL.
There are quite few contours in that area and the back end of that rust hole is awfully close to that access panel at the front of the shock tower. I'd guess it would take some pretty advanced metal working skills to fab up a patch for that if you wanted to make it look invisible. Personally, I'd probably buck up for the repro panel and cut out what I needed or use the whole thing if necessary. Maybe sell what was left over to someone needing a hood hinge area patch. :alan2cents:
Cut out a peice. I'm reading to start the "hacking" phase.
It is absolutely amazing how much spot welds Dodge used. I count nearly 20ish for just this small piece.
Is that overkill? Should I put 20 spot welds back in? That means drilling 20 holes. lol.
BTW, the Goodmark Inner fender seems 100% a perfect fit laying over the old crusty metal.
Because the cars are unibodies, the inner aprons are an integral part of the structure, hence the large amounts of spot welds :alan2cents: Patch panel looks good :bigthumb:
That dose look like a nice fit.
A little more planning today. Cut area is marked. Going to get a slim profile drill tomorrow.
Lots of spot welds! I guess I should replicate that? That would mean roughly drilling 25+ holes. Ugh!
You could cut the majority out of your way, then just hammer/chisel the spot welds along the bottom and sides. The frame rail is pretty thick, the rusted apron will likely break away pretty easy....will just require more grinding to clean up the edge. Save the drilling for the new panel and plug weld. :alan2cents:
That's exactly what I did. Broke out the bottom corners with hammer/chissel.
Today I will clean things up some more, wire wheel, grind, then put on some rust inhibitor.
I also need to weld a couple holes that I drilled through on the support. Easy.
Tomorrow I'll work on patching this in. Will take my time. The idea would be to stitch weld the top, then "connect" it to the car by spot welding the sides and bottom.
Epoxy prime the area, and maybe shoot a light coat of Ace Semi-glass black and re-assemble.
So far, it should look invisible!
LQQKING GOOD 8)
Looking good, some weld thru primer would be a nice touch!
Quote from: Brads70 on December 13, 2019, 01:42:25 PM
Looking good, some weld thru primer would be a nice touch!
:iagree: You beat me to it. :alan2cents:
Got some on the way.
I'm also going to acid treat it.
Fixed my hole.
Made some new holes.
I'm done for now!
I'm going to need all the related hardware for the battery mount stuff.
I have a new AMD battery tray. I was able to successfully recover the bracket that helps hold the tray up. But I am going to need all related clips/bolts and what not. Can you guys send me a link of what this stuff looks like?
I also broke a few plastic wiring clips that press through the inner fender holes. Probably need a couple of those too.
An additional question: look at the first photo from previous post. There's a bolt....that bolt used to hold an L-shape bracket that was definitely not stock (hardware store type crap). With that bracket gone....what used to go there that the bolt was for?
Once you have everything in place; do a metal phosphate metal wash.
I used Crud Cutter found at a local ACE Hardware store near me.
Some like Ospho but it's kinda pricey.
Rust Mort is pretty good stuff too, that's what I plan on using.
"Prep and Etch" (the blue jug) found at Home Depot is really good for the money as well. It's pretty much the same as Rust Mort, but more diluted (good for soaking).
Quote from: Brads70 on December 13, 2019, 01:42:25 PM
Looking good, some weld thru primer would be a nice touch!
Never been a fan of weld thru primer.
More resistance creating a problem to get nice welds.
I've never been a fan of my stupid Lincoln welder, regardless of any condition I've faced.
I remember back in school when I was 17 years old taking welding class. With that industrial stuff, I could run fine beds with MIG, Wire feed or Arc. I stayed after class for many weeks, not because I had to, but because I found myself having fun with it. When the competition came at the end of the year, a girl won. I came in second place. She made mighty fine beads that looked as good as you'd ever expect. Mine were good too, but hers seemed picture perfect from every angle!
This Lincoln 135T Has NEVER produced welds that I could do back in school under proper conditions. Smooth small beads that look flat and penetrated is what I'm used to. I KNOW how to weld, very good, but I feel like I'm using something that just doesn't penetrate to the level of melt that it should have.
My current house was built in the early 90s. It has 15 amp fuses. I would totally be at ears, for a better welder if you guys have recommendations. My welds now work, they take more grinding than I'm used to, even at the max setting of level "D".
maybe it's me, but I feel like the Lincon 135T seems undersized for most common auto projects. Currently, I just keep the setting at "D", and it does it good penetration, but grinding is required.
My mig is just a weldpak-100(115v) I've had for 25-30 years never had a problem with it. I've welded many a race car chassis/roll cages with it and never had a weld failure , even after 100 mph plus into the wall, bent and destroyed the car but the welds held up. Not optimal for roll cages etc... but it worked. I upgraded to the gas kit. the gasless wire just made a splatter mess and I never used up the original roll it came with. Tossed it in the scrap pile.
Does your mig have the gas kit?
Yes. I'm not saying my setup is bad. It's good. It's just not 240v good though. I like that extra bandwidth.
I always weld with a tank!
Unless doing farm grade flux core stuff. Which does work!
Quote from: Topcat on December 14, 2019, 07:22:07 PM
Quote from: Brads70 on December 13, 2019, 01:42:25 PM
Looking good, some weld thru primer would be a nice touch!
Never been a fan of weld thru primer.
More resistance creating a problem to get nice welds.
I agree. The silver zinc based stuff is pretty messy but the UPOL brand zinc worked MUCH better than the NAPA stuff I started with. Now using the UPOL copper and it isn't too bad at all and better than the zinc.
I have have had better luck with the copper weld. :alan2cents:
Well, I hope what I ordered doesn't suck!
Reviews look fantastic. Price was good. And it's Prime-able.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0088LVJTE/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I won't need much of it...
Cleaned area and fitted panel several times. No more fitting past this point, she's ready to go.
This picture is after the 24 hour rust conversion time. Looks really good. More updates coming.
Alrighty. Finally ready to weld.
Notice that I used weld through primer. I primed all the rest around it to cover bare metal.
Ready to weld. Take a look at this fitment....tell me if it can't get any better. :) :inlove:
The top definitely needs to be welded first.
I've had many opinions. I'm using a 110V welder with .025 gas wire.
Many say to stitch it. My friend is saying hell no.....tack weld it about a gazillion times. "THE PANEL WILL WARP, EVEN WITH STITCHING".
How did you guys weld the top part on yours?
I'd spot weld it then immediately cool it off with compressed air? That seemed to work ok on my fender project. Your patch has more shape/bends to it so warp age won't be as bad as a flat panel.
Not that I'm any sort of an expert!
Tacks, boring but it works. Keep cooling it too.
Compressed air sounds good. I used to use a cold damp cloth.
But if compressed air works better, I'd much rather do that.
Definitely tack's, when you grind the welds be careful not to get it to hot. that can cause warp-age as well. :alan2cents:
Quote from: kawahonda on December 23, 2019, 04:08:30 PM
Compressed air sounds good. I used to use a cold damp cloth.
But if compressed air works better, I'd much rather do that.
I prefer to keep moisture away from fresh metal as much as possible. Go with the air if you can.
I use a blow off nozzle that I scrounged from one of the plants I worked in twenty years ago. You can get them pretty cheap or make your own by drilling a bunch of hole in a flattened copper pipe or something. Gives better coverage than the typical air gun.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32908366600.html
Fitted in place. Flush as can be.
Welds look good and penetration is great.
Will use the tack method until it's all done.
Finished the butt joint. Grinded smooth. She'll need a thin coat of filler to look invisible when it's time for paint work and that's it. I'm likely going to just spray some etching primer over it now, followed by a light coat of rattle Semi-Gloss.
Figure it's best to filler it, block it, etc and what-not when it's time to paint the car. I am planning on smoothing out the backside and using seam-sealer, followed by undercoating (car has factory undercoating). It will look invisible from the back immediately.
I've started welding the spot welds. My thought is to start on the sides and to go from top to bottom. Clamp what's possible. Then do the bottom last.
Spot welds with a 110V welder requires you to get it as hot as possible and to not mess around. Let it rip. I've had to redo a couple due to not sticking, even on the highest setting.
One thing I've read is to start in the center of the hole, then go around in a circle. I did that on two and it didn't work. It did however work on one of them (turned out very strong).
I'm trying another technique now, which is to basically lap the half of the area (the wall of the "hole") with the backing metal, then proceed to do something similar as stated above. This assures you have a beginning "bite". Having to redo the holes is a little painful--more painful as you weld more spots in place.
Looking good :clapping:
I use a 110 mig and get good results. I do my "spot welds" by starting on the edge of the hole in the 2 o'clock position, get a puddle going, drop into the hole a bit and go around clockwise. (insert bedroom joke here... :Stirring:)
Looks fantastic, great job !
I'm in need of fasteners, but I have no idea what to look for. Here is what I'm hunting.
1) Clip nuts. I know there's probably about 3 of them that I need. One for the bracket, and two that mount to the inner fender. Any help on which? I have a paint supply store here in town, but they probably have about 5 different types....
2) Bolts. I need the 2 bolts that secure the tray into the inner fender. I also need the other two bolts for the brace. I already have the bolt that mounts on the other end of the battery tray. What are they and what do they look like?
3) I need that "push on" fastener. Looks like there's nothing truely correct out there. This appears to be my only option:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/10pcs-push-in-gray-nylon-dash-harness-retaining-wire-clips-tape-on-Dodge-prong/202790904224?fits=Year%3A1970%7CModel%3AChallenger&hash=item2f3747a1a0:g:27cAAOSwFw1dk5xX
Would love to get this stuff on the way! Welding is basically finished!
Rob's got em
$10 bucks to your door.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/66-74-A-B-E-Body-Cuda-GTX-OEM-Battery-Tray-Fasteners/382907864245?hash=item59271654b5:g:jYwAAOSwLVZVwqgS
...beat me to it...I was looking for a link to a kit :headbang:
Perfect! Thanks guys. He's even in Idaho too!
I'll grab that push in wire clip on eBay, unless you guys know of a better one. It will work....
Welding those 22+ spot weld holes went without a hitch......no cold welds.....just boom, boom, boom, boom....
Grinded the spot welds. Cleaned backside. Rust treated and painted some components.
Going to do some "finish" welding (pin holes). A tad bit more grinding. Then prime, seam seal, and reassembly.
I'm thinking to grind out indentations on the spot welds like factory.
I wouldn't call this a big job, but it isn't a small job. Probably billable for 16 hours and labor intensive.
Rear is seam sealed. Will blast some undercoating tomorrow.
Engine bay area is ground. Will try to lay some primer on it tomorrow then reassemble.
Yay, everything else here on out is pretty easy-stuff.
Nearly done.
...and there you have it...no more rust ! Great job :twothumbsup:
I noticed that the battery tray doesn't sit level.
I also pulled up some stock pictures and of course, it never did sit level stock.