E-Bodies.org Cuda Challenger Forum

Technical Shop => Wheels, Tires, Brakes, Suspension & Steering => Topic started by: Topcat on June 17, 2019, 06:46:54 PM

Title: Hanging By a Thread Or.... "If it works, then don't mess with it"
Post by: Topcat on June 17, 2019, 06:46:54 PM
A few months ago, I asked on a post here who makes the most accurate lug nuts.

Received some great answers and sources.

The De Anza Mopar show was coming up so I wanted them on before that show on 6/9.
The one's I had, were getting pretty crusty and were probably 20 plus years old. 

My rear end is a Dr. Diff Dana 60 with Strange Engineering Axles.
These special axle shafts use screw in studs. They are hardened forged and are 2" long.

By now you might be seeing the  train wreck coming.   :rolleyes:

When I left the show, the rear end was making major noise.
I limped it to the Barn and left since it was so Hot out. Like 95 or 100.


Back to the new lug nuts:

I put them on one at a time.
They went on pretty good but seemed to be fighting towards the end.
Never hearing the  "squeak when the seat on the wheel. I thought. "Because they're  new.

Conclusion: All 10 axle studs were either destroyed and one broke off.
Lug nuts side by side, were about the same length. I did check that prior to putting them on.

One wheel: 2 of the 5 lug holes are wallowed out.

I cannot get shorter studs than 2 inch for these Strange Axles.
Title: Re: Hanging By a Thread Or.... "If it works, then don't mess with it"
Post by: Brads70 on June 17, 2019, 06:54:42 PM
So what caused that? The nuts bottoming out on the stud before they tightened on the rim?
Title: Re: Hanging By a Thread Or.... "If it works, then don't mess with it"
Post by: 71-440 on June 17, 2019, 06:56:17 PM
OUCH!  That sucks.  :Thud:
Title: Re: Hanging By a Thread Or.... "If it works, then don't mess with it"
Post by: Topcat on June 17, 2019, 06:59:29 PM
The thread count from old vs new.

One word: CHINA

Didn't thread them to the bottom.   :pullinghair:

Like I said earlier, old ones were working fine.
Albeit, they probably were just barely seating into the wheel holes.
But they did work.
Title: Re: Hanging By a Thread Or.... "If it works, then don't mess with it"
Post by: 1 Wild R/T on June 17, 2019, 07:00:53 PM
Quote from: Brads70 on June 17, 2019, 06:54:42 PM
So what caused that? The nuts bottoming out on the stud before they tightened on the rim?

Yup....  New studs, another set of lug nuts... And a trip to your favorite lathe operator to have the new studs cut down....  Oh, sounds like one new wheel also..... When it rains it pours....  Only real option is to get it fixed & move forward...
Title: Re: Hanging By a Thread Or.... "If it works, then don't mess with it"
Post by: Topcat on June 17, 2019, 07:02:02 PM
Quote from: Brads70 on June 17, 2019, 06:54:42 PM
So what caused that? The nuts bottoming out on the stud before they tightened on the rim?


Yup
Title: Re: Hanging By a Thread Or.... "If it works, then don't mess with it"
Post by: Topcat on June 17, 2019, 07:08:22 PM
New wheel shows up tomorrow. New studs and Lugs showed up today.

Did I ever say..."I love Summit" So freaking fast!   :worship:

Axles are out to get the bad studs out.

Thanks James.

Fresh Caught Salmon for you.   :handshake:

Other friend will re mount tire onto new rim.

Back in action by Saturday.
Title: Re: Hanging By a Thread Or.... "If it works, then don't mess with it"
Post by: jimynick on June 17, 2019, 07:11:19 PM
Just curious, how could that happen? The studs don't appear to be waisted and they appear to be threaded all the way down. Is the thread pitch correct between the studs and lug nuts, because the front area of them look like the thread of one was not mating with the thread of the other?  :huh:
Title: Re: Hanging By a Thread Or.... "If it works, then don't mess with it"
Post by: Topcat on June 17, 2019, 07:16:03 PM
Quote from: jimynick on June 17, 2019, 07:11:19 PM
Just curious, how could that happen? The studs don't appear to be waisted and they appear to be threaded all the way down. Is the thread pitch correct between the studs and lug nuts, because the front area of them look like the thread of one was not mating with the thread of the other?  :huh:

Cass at Dr. Diff concluded from the pics it was the difference in the  lug nuts.

I worked for AAA automotive. I put at least 100,000 lug nuts on in my past.
so what can I say...
Title: Re: Hanging By a Thread Or.... "If it works, then don't mess with it"
Post by: GoodysGotaCuda on June 17, 2019, 07:22:44 PM
All of my Dr. Diff 3" rear studs are cut down to fit my application. Glad it wasn't any worse, but that's important stuff to check when you start hot roddin' things.  :burnout:
Title: Re: Hanging By a Thread Or.... "If it works, then don't mess with it"
Post by: ratroaster on June 17, 2019, 07:29:03 PM
Those look way longer than factory studs.  Your lug nuts bottomed out before tightening the wheel. You got very lucky! Could have been way worse....
Title: Re: Hanging By a Thread Or.... "If it works, then don't mess with it"
Post by: anlauto on June 17, 2019, 07:39:44 PM
I don't understand why you're blaming the nuts when the studs are longer then stock ? :dunno:
Title: Re: Hanging By a Thread Or.... "If it works, then don't mess with it"
Post by: Topcat on June 17, 2019, 08:51:22 PM
I'd say these are stock looking lug nuts.

Axles studs and lug nuts just replaced a few minutes ago.

Title: Re: Hanging By a Thread Or.... "If it works, then don't mess with it"
Post by: Topcat on June 17, 2019, 08:54:02 PM
Quote from: anlauto on June 17, 2019, 07:39:44 PM
I don't understand why you're blaming the nuts when the studs are longer then stock ? :dunno:

They're longer than stock, sure.

But if you look inside of them, they can be different at the bottom.

The stud ends are all damaged...each one differently.
Not identical.
Title: Re: Hanging By a Thread Or.... "If it works, then don't mess with it"
Post by: Topcat on June 17, 2019, 08:56:37 PM
Quote from: ratroaster on June 17, 2019, 07:29:03 PM
Those look way longer than factory studs.  Your lug nuts bottomed out before tightening the wheel. You got very lucky! Could have been way worse....

Stock vs. Strange hardened studs.
Title: Re: Hanging By a Thread Or.... "If it works, then don't mess with it"
Post by: Chryco Psycho on June 17, 2019, 09:08:31 PM
I ran into this constantly , often we used open lugs so the stud could come through the lug when it was too long ,
in your case you want it to look stock so yes you have to be careful that the rim is held tight & not still lose when the lugs are tight . it coul dhav ebeen much worse , often I have seen where the lug goes to the end of the stud & still tightens causing the stud to unthread & chew up the brakes on the other side of the axle flange so the wheel is tight but the brakes get destroyed .
Title: Re: Hanging By a Thread Or.... "If it works, then don't mess with it"
Post by: Topcat on June 17, 2019, 09:21:59 PM
Quote from: Chryco Psycho on June 17, 2019, 09:08:31 PM
I ran into this constantly , often we used open lugs so the stud could come through the lug when it was too long ,
in your case you want it to look stock so yes you have to be careful that the rim is held tight & not still lose when the lugs are tight . it coul dhav ebeen much worse , often I have seen where the lug goes to the end of the stud & still tightens causing the stud to unthread & chew up the brakes on the other side of the axle flange so the wheel is tight but the brakes get destroyed .

Yes I was lucky and dodged a Bullet again.

We tried a  variety of lug nuts. Some James had from before and  some a few I had.

We found inconsistencies across the board with different makes/styles.

All were meant for Mopar.
Title: Re: Hanging By a Thread Or.... "If it works, then don't mess with it"
Post by: Chryco Psycho on June 17, 2019, 09:52:31 PM
if you trim off the new studs you should be fine with original type lugs
Title: Re: Hanging By a Thread Or.... "If it works, then don't mess with it"
Post by: RUNCHARGER on June 18, 2019, 07:15:03 AM
We don't go to a Chrysler parts dept and pick up new parts for these things anymore unfortunately. I've found lots of new studs and lugs don't thread on properly either. Either they are too loose or too tight all the way down.
Title: Re: Hanging By a Thread Or.... "If it works, then don't mess with it"
Post by: gzig5 on June 18, 2019, 07:26:52 AM
Five minutes and a cutoff disc would take care of the excess stud length.  Long studs allow use of spacers and thick aluminum wheels. If you don't need the length, cut them to stock length and dress the ends.

When I got my car I didn't like how the lug nuts felt going on and off.  If  the lugs were mixed they wouldn't want to go on all the way.  Not good.  I soaked the lugs in penetrant and then ran a bottoming tap through each one.  I soaked the studs as well and ran a die over them.  No more issues.
Title: Re: Hanging By a Thread Or.... "If it works, then don't mess with it"
Post by: anlauto on June 18, 2019, 07:35:45 AM
YearOne has extra long lug nuts https://www.yearone.com/Product/challenger-cuda/mr3204lh#prettyPhoto
Title: Re: Hanging By a Thread Or.... "If it works, then don't mess with it"
Post by: Topcat on June 18, 2019, 07:03:59 PM
From Left to Right:

1. These were the Lug nuts that were working perfectly with the long studs

2. These were the reproduction lug nuts that failed from Classic Industries.

3. Rick Ehrenberg sold these Problem solvers. Could've used these, but opted for a new wheel.

4. These are the new lug nuts that I had shown on the new studs yesterday.
Title: Re: Hanging By a Thread Or.... "If it works, then don't mess with it" Summary
Post by: Topcat on June 21, 2019, 06:14:58 PM
I spoke with the Classic Industries Supervisor today and they are refunding me most of the costs on replacing the lug nuts, Studs, Wheel, etc.

Tony the Supervisor is talking to his purchasing dept. to contact the mfg'r in China.
They also had a meeting first thing today over my situation in regard to it being a safety issue for anyone buying these lug nuts.

Likely, this Sku is going to be pulled until further notice.

My biggest question is: whose the QC/QA guy that approved them to their site?

He missed one thing: Internal dimensions.   :thinking:

Title: Re: Hanging By a Thread Or.... "If it works, then don't mess with it"
Post by: nsmall on June 21, 2019, 07:17:57 PM
Thats good news.  Really good news.  This is turning out really good considering the fact you didnt die out there.   
Title: Re: Hanging By a Thread Or.... "If it works, then don't mess with it"
Post by: 1 Wild R/T on June 21, 2019, 07:48:55 PM
Quote from: anlauto on June 17, 2019, 07:39:44 PM
I don't understand why you're blaming the nuts when the studs are longer then stock ? :dunno:

Hate to say it but I agree with Alan, those lug nuts are designed to fit stock length lugs... Are they the best quality? Probably not.... Classic like Year One isn't known for sourcing the best parts... They source the part with the highest profit margin.... But they would probably be 100% fine with OE length studs... So take your refund & be happy.. Most hotrodders know long wheel studs require lug nuts with an open end....  So they paid for your screwup... :alan2cents:

QuoteI'd say these are stock looking lug nuts.

Well they may satisfy you but they certainly are not even close to stock looking IMO
Title: Re: Hanging By a Thread Or.... "If it works, then don't mess with it"
Post by: Topcat on June 21, 2019, 09:12:44 PM
Quote from: 1 Wild R/T on June 21, 2019, 07:48:55 PM
Quote from: anlauto on June 17, 2019, 07:39:44 PM
I don't understand why you're blaming the nuts when the studs are longer then stock ? :dunno:

Hate to say it but I agree with Alan, those lug nuts are designed to fit stock length lugs...:alan2cents:

The first one's I owned were bought with the Rallyes. They worked fine and were meant for OEM.

Quote

I'd say these are stock looking lug nuts.

Well they may satisfy you but they certainly are not even close to stock looking IMO

By stock, I meant they were correct count of threads not looks.