E-Bodies.org Cuda Challenger Forum

Technical Shop => Electrical & Audio => Topic started by: drew43a on September 30, 2019, 05:41:53 AM

Title: key buzzer
Post by: drew43a on September 30, 2019, 05:41:53 AM
can anyone tell me which one and were the key buzzer is on a 70 cuda?
  i know the round one on the brake pedal assembly is the turn flasher. and the one on the fuse box at the top is the horn relay. and someone told me the one on the back side of the ash tray was the hazard flasher unit.   i have a plug under the dash that is "T" shape with a red and a yellow wire and it goes right to another "T" shaped plug 6 inches away and has  3 or 4 wires  connected into it.  is the red /yellow T plug where the buzzer goes?   my wiring diagram shows the key buzzer plug as a 3 wire.   :help:
Title: Re: key buzzer
Post by: Slotts on September 30, 2019, 05:55:23 AM
I'll be glad to help you later this morning. I have my Dad at his cardiac rehab appointment right now.
I recently just went through this with a a member @ErikR (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/erikr_515) 70 Barracuda. Maybe somebody will be able to help you before I get back to the shop. Will check in later...

Jim
Title: Re: key buzzer
Post by: anlauto on September 30, 2019, 05:55:24 AM
Look way over on the passenger side of the car on the far side of the glove box. Bolted to the frame should be another relay/buzzer
Title: Re: key buzzer
Post by: Dakota on September 30, 2019, 06:00:22 AM
The hazard flasher is on the back of the ash tray.

The "key in" buzzer is on the passenger side by the glove box.  On my M&H replacement harness, the wires for the "key in" buzzer are in the same run as the passenger side door switch.

Over by the steering column, you might wires for a "time delay" relay that would be part of the "A01" light option.   

There's lots more info on A01 here:   https://forum.e-bodies.org/electrical-and-audio/11/1970-challenger-a01-light-option/725/
Title: Re: key buzzer
Post by: Cuda Cody on September 30, 2019, 06:47:35 AM
Here's the Key buzzer location for a 1970 Cuda / Challenger (E-Body)  :bigthumb:  They are also ink date stamped.  (dash is upside down in the photo shown with the glove box removed)
Title: Re: key buzzer
Post by: anlauto on September 30, 2019, 07:20:26 AM
Great picture Cody.... :twothumbsup:
Title: Re: key buzzer
Post by: drew43a on September 30, 2019, 07:30:23 AM
hey everyone  thanks to alnauto's post of the location  i went and looked on my car and sure enough there it was.  :veryexcited:  i unplugged it and tested it and it is still working  :veryexcited:
now just a little wire tracing and i should have it.  Thanks to all who replied.
Title: Re: key buzzer
Post by: Slotts on September 30, 2019, 08:19:51 AM
Looks like you were helped, Drew.  :bigthumb:

One note to make on the 70's. The SE and GC cars used a 2983872 key in relay buzzer as shown in Cody's picture. Next to it was where the 2983336 low fuel relay was mounted, too. 

The correct key in buzzer relay for all of the other E body models for 70 is the 2983696 with the part number stamped into the metal housing.  :alan2cents:

Jim
Title: Re: key buzzer
Post by: 70/6chall on September 30, 2019, 09:57:22 AM
I have a factory OE lamp on reminder buzzer diode p/n 2983595 available,applicable info.  Thanks,   Al
Title: Re: key buzzer
Post by: JS29 on September 30, 2019, 10:41:48 AM
@Slotts (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/slotts_104) I have a 2983828 is that a low fuel relay as well? If not, what is it!  :dunno:  :sorry:about hi-jacking this tread.
Title: Re: key buzzer
Post by: drew43a on September 30, 2019, 11:13:10 AM
well i need more help.  the red wire to my key buzzer 2983872 not sure what a SE car is,   GC car is grand Coupe i guess,  reads hot.  but still no buzz. i think my first photo with the Female T red/yellow wire connector is where the diode plugs in.  that i do not have.  70/6chall's photo of the diode must plug into my connector.  is that for sale?

second question.  any ideas what my secondd photo is for ?  it is a 2 wire L type connector with a inline fuse holder.  it is right above where the glove box goes.

third question.  any idea what this third photo is for?  2 yellow wires to a round connector is for its under dash by steering colume.  i think its goes to the time delay relay i can't find 
Title: Re: key buzzer
Post by: Slotts on September 30, 2019, 12:05:55 PM
Challenger SE (Special Edition)
Barracuda GC (Gran Coupe) GC is just my abbreviation. 

The T connector with the horizontal red and vertical yellow is for the short diode plug in cable. You do not need that diode cable for the key in buzz to work. The key in buzzer relay only works if the ignition power is off. If the engine is on and running, you can open either door without the buzz.

The inline fuse and L connector is for your turn signal flasher. There should be a clip on the side of your ash tray housing where that is mounted. The emergency flasher uses the same type of clip, but mounts on the brake pedal housing.

I will post a picture of the schematic for the time delay. (That is part of option package. Your car may or may not have had that option.)

The 2983828 is also a low fuel relay.

Jim
Title: Re: key buzzer
Post by: drew43a on September 30, 2019, 12:40:09 PM
oh  now i see the mount for the flasher relay on the side of the ash tray.  flasher missing.   i  see now what i thought was a flasher relay on the back side of the ashtray (opposite side of flasher mount)  is actually the time delay relay.   :headbang:

So i seem to have  a broken door switch male spade connectors gone on the end. passenger side good.  With the key in the OFF position i had power on the red wire of the key buzzer but no buzz.
would the door switches have to be both open or closed?  to make it work or do they not effect the key in buzzer to make it buzz. or am i missing something else?  when does the buzzer buzz?

more replies on page 2
Title: Re: key buzzer
Post by: Slotts on September 30, 2019, 01:32:50 PM
What I am seeing in the last picture is a road lamp relay, not a time delay relay.

Jim
Title: Re: key buzzer
Post by: JS29 on September 30, 2019, 02:18:48 PM
Is the time delay round, because the one for the fasten seat belt lamp the dealer fixed me up with is.   :alan2cents:
Title: Re: key buzzer
Post by: drew43a on September 30, 2019, 03:06:32 PM
ok you say road lamp relay.   i dont see one on my aftermarket colored wiring diagram. do you mean headlight delay relay?  where would the time delay relay be mounted?

good news is i now have succeeded in getting the key buzzer to operate properly with the door switches. :veryexcited:  just need one new switch  ordered from ebay.

here is a photo of my rebuilt motor in the car soon to get exhaust and get it started.
Title: Re: key buzzer
Post by: anlauto on September 30, 2019, 06:32:58 PM
Small parts like that switch are really cheap at Rockauto and members here get a discount as well  :twothumbsup:
Title: Re: key buzzer
Post by: drew43a on September 30, 2019, 11:34:16 PM
i didn't know that. i'm a  :ebay: person.  how does one get the discount at rock auto?
Title: Re: key buzzer
Post by: anlauto on October 01, 2019, 03:29:57 AM
On the Rockauto web site enter the discount code found here: https://forum.e-bodies.org/deals-coupons-vendor-specials-and-product-reviews/16/e-bodies-org-site-supporters-discount-codes/1062/
Title: Re: key buzzer
Post by: Slotts on October 01, 2019, 06:49:36 AM
And we're back to Key TV...
Let's all give it up to the new spokesperson for Rock Auto, Ladies and Gentlemen!  :clapping:  :bravo:  :clapping:

Before the break, we were discussing the following:

Quote from: drew43a on September 30, 2019, 03:06:32 PM
ok you say road lamp relay.   i dont see one on my aftermarket colored wiring diagram. do you mean headlight delay relay?  where would the time delay relay be mounted?

good news is i now have succeeded in getting the key buzzer to operate properly with the door switches. :veryexcited:  just need one new switch  ordered from ebay.

here is a photo of my rebuilt motor in the car soon to get exhaust and get it started.

Typically, accessory equipment was not shown on the instrument panel wiring schematics in the factory service manuals. Separate accessory wiring schematics were detailed separately.

No, that is not a headlight delay relay shown in your picture.

The time delay relay was mounted without a special clip, but rather double-sided cloth tape and affixed to the steering column. Since the time delay relay was an internal thermal driven device, the steering column was used as a heat sink to dissipate the heat. I am attaching a mock up picture to show how it was done. If the time delay relay is left hanging in midair, it's life expectancy will be shortened before failure.

As of the early teens, Chrysler still sold these 02889565 at the parts counter. They were used on some of the late model Caravans.

Good luck on the first start up. It looks like you are really close!  :twothumbsup:

Jim
Title: Re: key buzzer
Post by: JS29 on October 01, 2019, 07:34:59 AM
02889565 was discontinued two years ago! I may have a line on one if needed.
Title: Re: key buzzer
Post by: HEMICUDA on October 01, 2019, 07:49:14 AM
Quote from: anlauto on September 30, 2019, 06:32:58 PM
Small parts like that switch are really cheap at Rockauto and members here get a discount as well  :twothumbsup:

I agree, pretty cheap and easy to find.  Just have to remember to install them so the buzzer will work.
Title: Re: key buzzer
Post by: drew43a on October 01, 2019, 08:44:42 AM
@slotts    so what does the diode do? you mentioned earlier that it was not needed for the key buzzer.  i have succeeded in getting my key in buzzer to work. Just wondering what the diode  will do for me. 

i removed the relay at the back end of the ashtray and the number on it is a 2889916 road lamp relay.   I don't mean to question your help.

Title: Re: key buzzer
Post by: Slotts on October 01, 2019, 10:50:32 AM
Quote from: drew43a on October 01, 2019, 08:44:42 AM
@slotts    so what does the diode do? you mentioned earlier that it was not needed for the key buzzer.  i have succeeded in getting my key in buzzer to work. Just wondering what the diode  will do for me. 

i removed the relay at the back end of the ashtray and the number on it is a 2889916 road lamp relay.   I don't mean to question your help.

Ok Drew, here is a long-winded answer to a quick question on the diode.

Let's start with how the buzzer relay works. The type of this buzzer relay is called "normally closed". What that means is two of the blades on the relay can conduct an electrical path. When the magnet portion is energized, the magnet breaks that "normally closed" electrical path and makes that electrical path disabled.

Once the ignition on power is sent to the relay, energizing the internal magnet, opening the doors while the engine is running will not make the relay buzz. When the ignition switch is turned off, the internal magnet closes and enables the buzzer wiring circuit to work.

Another different power source is always active (battery power feed) connects at one side of the ignition key-in switch buried in the steering column. This key-in switch allows power to pass to the buzzer relay when the key is in the ignition. With the key out, no key-in switch power goes to the relay.

There is more to describe on how the buzzer portion of the relay actually is created, but for this post, I am just trying to describe the overall operation.

Now, let's consider adding another possible power source trigger being the lights on circuit to make the same relay to buzz. Here is where the need for a diode comes in. What does a diode do? It enables the ability to control the path of an electrical current flow in a direction and the disability to block the flow of electrical current in the opposite direction.

An analogy would be the front door of a house. If you PUSH the door from the inside will open to the outside easily. If you PUSH the closed front door from the outside, the door doesn't open.

The short factory diode jumper is doing this when plugged into the T connector, double red on horizontal T (Circuit Q13A&B) and vertical T (Circuit L6&6A). With the parking lights on will send power down that Q13 circuit, if no power is present, meaning the ignition is off, the key removed, but the doors are not opened. The buzzer relay will buzz.

If both triggers are in place, the key left in the ignition and the switch in the off position AND the lights are one, with the doors closed, the buzzer is on from the lights current. Then, when the door(s) open, the headlight power is interrupted and the key-in circuit is now driving the buzzer.

Sorry, I am missing your point on the road lamp relay? That IS a real 70 only road lamp relay.

Wheh!!! I think it is time for another commercial break, brought to you by our friends Dave and Jon at Roseville Moparts!!!  :haha:  :rofl:

Jim
Title: Re: key buzzer
Post by: drew43a on October 01, 2019, 11:53:28 AM
ok  so in short it is a key in buzzer and a headlights on buzzer ( with the diode)  once the door opens  it uses the key in circuit to keep the buzzer going. correct?

can i make my own?  i am somewhat familar with diodes,  what would i need diode wise to but in a home made pigtail?

you telling me it was a road lamp relay  and since i didnt see it in my diagram i questioned it.  for piece of mind i pulled it out and looked it up. lol   not questioning your knowledge.

ok on the time delay relay, do i need one?