I'm looking at removing the doors on my 73 challenger as part of my restoration so that they can be stripped and repainted, and the hinges can get rebuilt.
Would you guys recommend removing the door glass or leave it in the door during this process?
I've read the recommended method of removing the doors in the shop manual; I'm wondering if anybody has any hints or tips before I start the removal!
Definitely remove it. It's not that hard plus it's not a bad idea to clean and lube everything after 40+ years. Also it will be easier to paint with nothing in or on the door to get in the way. Put a jack or something under the door when you unbolt them because they are heavy!
Empty the doors out 100%. Clean and restore all the parts inside. Don't put anything back in until after final paint.
Easier with two people to lift the door off the car.
It's usually better to strip them out so you can replace any worn bits and lube as stated. If you have an engine hoist it is super easy to pull them yourself. You can do it by yourself without a hoist but it's a bit harder.
:iagree:Remove everything from the door that you can before you take it off the car . . . they are heavy enough as a shell. Plus as mentioned, it is a great time to go through all of the inner workings (cleaning, greasing, replacing) while they are getting a fresh coat of paint!
Quote from: fireguyfire on October 20, 2019, 12:16:35 AM
I'm looking at removing the doors on my 73 challenger as part of my restoration so that they can be stripped and repainted, and the hinges can get rebuilt.
Would you guys recommend removing the door glass or leave it in the door during this process?
I've read the recommended method of removing the doors in the shop manual; I'm wondering if anybody has any hints or tips before I start the removal!
Gut the doors for sure. I would suggest doing all the body work while all the sheet metal is assembled on the car with the rebuild hinges to insure straight body lines and good gaps. Once finished and ready for paint, blow the car apart except for the doors. Loosen the upper hinge bolts on the body and "pre-load" the back of the door 3/16" up to compensate for the door "sag" you're going to get when the doors are re-loaded with the additional weight. Knock the hinge pins out of the hinges so you're leaving half of the hinge on the body and the other on the door. You will have to remove the upper bolt on the top hinge to be able to remove the pin. Doors can be a challenge to align, the last thing you want is doing it on a nicely painted car, by removing the pins, you know it's going on exactly where it was when first aligned. After everything is painted and ready for re-assembly, hang the doors only and re-load them. I have found 3/16" up aligns the doors almost perfectly in most cases, sometimes the door is still a hair high. Sneak up loosening the top bolts on the hinge to the body, "tap" the top hinge from the fender side until the door is perfect then install the striker. You will need a long punch to re-install the hinge pins.
Ebody doors are rather heavy and, at times, somewhat difficult to align. The last thing you want is to scratch all your nice paint in the jams and inside of the door trying to align them. I recently worked on a convertible someone else "restored" and left the doors right where they were when they were empty, yep, sagged that 3/16" after being loaded. The door glass overlapped quarter glass before it rode up the striker and where it should be. You should be able to push the door with one finger and not feel anything until the secondary latch catches the striker. The last thing you want is to use the striker to pull the door up to get it to align with the quarter panel properly.
Great info Hemicuda!
Quote from: fireguyfire on October 22, 2019, 05:12:03 AM
Great info Hemicuda!
The main reasons we load the doors before the fenders are put on is because, if the door has a pre-load of 3/16", when you open the door it may hit the fender on the top and to get the door height perfect. I like tight and perfect door gaps front & back and they have to be perfect from top to bottom. I have welded on the end of original doors to get this done, reproduction metal is a totally different story (lots of welding and grinding). As good as the AMD metal is, I can't imagine restoring a customer car not working the gaps in this fashion. The AMD metal is a great foundation, it's just not perfect. :alan2cents:
If you don't get the gaps right the whole car will look bad IMO.
Quote from: RUNCHARGER on October 22, 2019, 07:15:42 AM
If you don't get the gaps right the whole car will look bad IMO.
You got that right, we've seen that first hand from others. Not earth shattering, however, that type of detail work is daunting for the average person, takes the correct tools and talent to pull it off especially when using reproduction metal.
Yes: I advise people to set up the doors properly before pulling the car apart or changing any metal. It is one of the more important parts of getting a car right.
So just for absolute clarity, you guys are saying to hang the doors back in place after paint (3/16" high at the rear top corner), then put everything back in the door to weight it which should make the 3/16" go away, THEN hang the fenders after that, correct?
You can also add 35-40 lbs of weight to each door while working with them to compensate for the weight of all the hardware and glass :alan2cents:
Quote from: anlauto on October 22, 2019, 07:34:21 AM
You can also add 35-40 lbs of weight to each door while working with them to compensate for the weight of all the hardware and glass :alan2cents:
Huh? It's obvious that's not something you do so why post on this thread? Plz read my post and understand them before you make any replies. Again, if the door is pre-loaded 3/16" of an inch, the door may hit the top of the fender when opened.
If in fact you actually did that, which we know you don't (the purple convertible doors dropped exactly 3/16" when they were opened), why would someone guess the weight (35-40lbs.) not to mention the weight distribution in the door shell. Maybe we're just not smart enough here, I work off absolutes and strive for perfection without compromise.
This task sounds like its going to be PITA to do
Quote from: Cuda70-74 on October 22, 2019, 08:13:19 AM
This task sounds like its going to be PITA to do
Nah, pretty simple actually, you'll see if you do it.
Quote from: HEMICUDA on October 22, 2019, 08:20:06 AM
Quote from: Cuda70-74 on October 22, 2019, 08:13:19 AM
This task sounds like its going to be PITA to do
Nah, pretty simple actually, you'll see if you do it.
I always sucked at aligning doors. My mustang doors still not aligned properly. I do need to get some better hinges tho
Quote from: Cuda70-74 on October 22, 2019, 08:29:57 AM
Quote from: HEMICUDA on October 22, 2019, 08:20:06 AM
Quote from: Cuda70-74 on October 22, 2019, 08:13:19 AM
This task sounds like its going to be PITA to do
Nah, pretty simple actually, you'll see if you do it.
I always sucked at aligning doors. My mustang doors still not aligned properly. I do need to get some better hinges tho
You're correct, doors can be a challenge, good hinges are important. Keep in mind, the quality of these cars back in the day isn't remotely close to cars today. I find we have to correct gaps and body lines even on an all original sheet metal car.
Great info fellas; sounds like I need to send my hinges out for rebuilding before I can get to proper gap setting and body work.
Quote from: fireguyfire on October 22, 2019, 08:36:21 AM
Great info fellas; sounds like I need to send my hinges out for rebuilding before I can get to proper gap setting and body work.
Theres a guy on here name MoparLeo that rebuild E-body doors hinges for 185. Thats who im going to send my too.
Quote from: HEMICUDA on October 22, 2019, 08:34:51 AM
Quote from: Cuda70-74 on October 22, 2019, 08:29:57 AM
Quote from: HEMICUDA on October 22, 2019, 08:20:06 AM
Quote from: Cuda70-74 on October 22, 2019, 08:13:19 AM
This task sounds like its going to be PITA to do
Nah, pretty simple actually, you'll see if you do it.
I always sucked at aligning doors. My mustang doors still not aligned properly. I do need to get some better hinges tho
You're correct, doors can be a challenge, good hinges are important. Keep in mind, the quality of these cars back in the day isn't remotely close to cars today. I find we have to correct gaps and body lines even on an all original sheet metal car.
I agree
Quote from: Cuda70-74 on October 22, 2019, 08:13:19 AM
This task sounds like its going to be PITA to do
I've uninstalled and installed plenty of doors in my day, just take your time and be patient, and you'll figure it out. There are many different methods that can be used, you'll find the one that is right for you. Of course having an extra set of hands is nice, but like mentioned, you can use tools like an engine hoist to help hold the weight.
Rebuilt door hinges is pretty much a must if you find any kind of wear in your hinges. MoparLeo sounds like a great source. :bigthumb: if you don't want to tackle them yourself. AMD also sells reproduction door hinges.
Quote from: anlauto on October 22, 2019, 09:15:53 AM
Quote from: Cuda70-74 on October 22, 2019, 08:13:19 AM
This task sounds like its going to be PITA to do
I've uninstalled and installed plenty of doors in my day, just take your time and be patient, and you'll figure it out. There are many different methods that can be used, you'll find the one that is right for you. Of course having an extra set of hands is nice, but like mentioned, you can use tools like an engine hoist to help hold the weight.
Rebuilt door hinges is pretty much a must if you find any kind of wear in your hinges. MoparLeo sounds like a great source. :bigthumb: if you don't want to tackle them yourself. AMD also sells reproduction door hinges.
Since you've "installed plenty of doors", how exactly do you install and load the doors so the body lines line up? I'm always interested in learning from others that have so much experience? To install doors, I have a padded door cradle specifically designed to mount to a floor jack. However, you are absolutely correct, a little helper does make it much easier.
My hinges will be going to MoparLeo
:haha: :rofl:
This thread is turning into... (Please view the attached picture!)
Jim
:haha: :rofl:
So here is a dumb question....my driver door hinges are worn and passenger is perfect. So I was thinking to remove the top hinge and send it to Leo for repair.
Question : can I remove the top hinge without removing the fender or door? anybody try this as long as the door is held up properly? I can get tools in there but before I even think about this want to see if anyone has tried this....thanks
Just a heads up; was just in contact with MoparLeo a week or so back and he will only restore the hinges as a full set; not just the drivers side hinges which are usually the most worn for obvious reasons
Quote from: Bossgold on October 22, 2019, 09:52:57 AM
So here is a dumb question....my driver door hinges are worn and passenger is perfect. So I was thinking to remove the top hinge and send it to Leo for repair.
Question : can I remove the top hinge without removing the fender or door? anybody try this as long as the door is held up properly? I can get tools in there but before I even think about this want to see if anyone has tried this....thanks
Sure you can, take the inner fender shield out and take a look. You can get to all x4 of the bolts from inside the fender, remember there is one behind the kick panel on the inside of the car (take that one out first).
The upper hinges are pretty simple to do yourself, all you may need is a set of new bronze bushing and maybe a new pin.
Here's a Dorman kit to do one side. When I restore cars, I have the customer get the Resto Rick complete kit, the lower hinges don't use the bushings like the top. Rick supplies over sized pins for the bottom hinges so you drill out and ream the hole for the larger pin. Rick also supplies the reamer if you need it, also, I would never use the reproduction hinges unless your originals are bad and there's no rebuildable originals left on the planet.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Door-Hinge-Pin-Bushing-Kit-Dorman-38382/371727581048?fits=Model%3ACuda&hash=item568cb0bf78:g:DfoAAOSwSDxbmnC8
You may want to call Rick www.restorick.com, really good guy to deal with and a real restorer that's very talented.
We're here to help someone with a door question so please do not berating someone if they are trying to answer the question. :grouphug: Share what you think might help and lets all try to be encouraging and supportive of all the different ways to accomplish the goal.
It was at the Connor Ave Assembly Plant where they built Dodge Vipers that I learned about pre-loading vs pre-adjusting higher. Both techniques work and I had always just pre-adjusted them up but after seeing the factory use weight to preload the Viper hinges I started doing it the same way on my E-Bodies. If you take all the guts out of the door and weight it the weight it you should have around 50 pounds. I use chains and spread them evenly across the bottom of the door. That most closely mimics the weight distribution of the real guts (glass, regulators, handles, panel, tracks, ect). When I use the method to raise the door up in the back I've had the same perfect success of the door lining up in the end so I think both ways will work perfectly for you. The main thing to remember is if you make the adjustments during bodywork it makes it a lot easier when you do final assembly. But don't worry if you didn't pre-load or pre-adjust, you can always adjust the door hinges after paint. It just takes a couple extra sets of hands and you run a risk of chipping the paint. If you have to adjust the door after paint, you might try taping the edges to keep them from getting chipped.
Quote from: fireguyfire on October 20, 2019, 12:16:35 AM
I'm looking at removing the doors on my 73 challenger as part of my restoration so that they can be stripped and repainted, and the hinges can get rebuilt.
Would you guys recommend removing the door glass or leave it in the door during this process?
I've read the recommended method of removing the doors in the shop manual; I'm wondering if anybody has any hints or tips before I start the removal!
I just removed doors from a 1971 Challenger the other week for the same purpose.
What I like to do is empty the door 100%, glass, tracks, regulator, latch, handles, all clips, fasteners etc...first.
Then I remove the three inside bolts. Is the dash in the car ? If so the top bolt will take a 3/8 drive ratchet with a deep 9/16 socket and some patience.
On the other bolts I use power tools to speed things along.
With the door in the closed position and the three interior bolts removed.
I hold the door with my body removing the four remaining exterior bolts starting at the bottom.
Once the last bolt is removed. Grab the door now with two hands as it rests on the rocker and lower it to the ground.
Once the door is off the car, you can remove the hinges from the door.
In my opinion....Forget the glass for a minute, roll it down, that's really no way to determine the door position. The glass could easily be out of adjustment.
Mark the striker location using masking tape, and remove the striker altogether.
Now close the door, holding it shut, and determine if it is in the correct location, or if it's low or high.
Adjust accordingly.
The rear of the door can be moved by adjusting the top or bottom hinge at the door post. You must keep in mind that it will tighten your front door gap at the fender, so you might want to move each one a tiny bit rather then moving just one.
Yes as you mentioned...this may mess up your fender alignment, which may mess up your hood alignment and so on and so on :looney:
Quote from: HEMICUDA on October 21, 2019, 11:37:35 PM
Quote from: fireguyfire on October 20, 2019, 12:16:35 AM
I'm looking at removing the doors on my 73 challenger as part of my restoration so that they can be stripped and repainted, and the hinges can get rebuilt.
Would you guys recommend removing the door glass or leave it in the door during this process?
I've read the recommended method of removing the doors in the shop manual; I'm wondering if anybody has any hints or tips before I start the removal!
Gut the doors for sure. I would suggest doing all the body work while all the sheet metal is assembled on the car with the rebuild hinges to insure straight body lines and good gaps. Once finished and ready for paint, blow the car apart except for the doors. Loosen the upper hinge bolts on the body and "pre-load" the back of the door 3/16" up to compensate for the door "sag" you're going to get when the doors are re-loaded with the additional weight. Knock the hinge pins out of the hinges so you're leaving half of the hinge on the body and the other on the door. You will have to remove the upper bolt on the top hinge to be able to remove the pin. Doors can be a challenge to align, the last thing you want is doing it on a nicely painted car, by removing the pins, you know it's going on exactly where it was when first aligned. After everything is painted and ready for re-assembly, hang the doors only and re-load them. I have found 3/16" up aligns the doors almost perfectly in most cases, sometimes the door is still a hair high. Sneak up loosening the top bolts on the hinge to the body, "tap" the top hinge from the fender side until the door is perfect then install the striker. You will need a long punch to re-install the hinge pins.
Ebody doors are rather heavy and, at times, somewhat difficult to align. The last thing you want is to scratch all your nice paint in the jams and inside of the door trying to align them. I recently worked on a convertible someone else "restored" and left the doors right where they were when they were empty, yep, sagged that 3/16" after being loaded. The door glass overlapped quarter glass before it rode up the striker and where it should be. You should be able to push the door with one finger and not feel anything until the secondary latch catches the striker. The last thing you want is to use the striker to pull the door up to get it to align with the quarter panel properly.
"Gut the doors for sure. I would suggest doing all the body work while all the sheet metal is assembled on the car with the rebuild hinges to insure straight body lines and good gaps"
My resto shop insisted that I supply them with two new
identical sets of weather striping for the doors, trunk and hood. They told me this was necessary as they wanted the weather striping in place when they did the body work. They stated that the first set would likely get damaged during the restoration process and subsequently that's why the second set was needed. I wasn't thrilled paying for a second set but the results were that when my car came back from the body shop I had perfect gaps / alignment and doors could be closed with two fingers! :bigthumb:
:iagree: Oh yes, that is the best way to do it. Especially for the trunk lid. And make sure to have your trunk lid springs (torsion rods) in place when doing body work too. They can put pressure on the deck lid and change it so it's best to have them in place too.