I have a beautiful pair of brand new Challenger door panels in black from Metro and I have the SEM products to paint them green. I am using the SEM soap and the grey scotch brite pads that SEM provides to clean the door panels. So I'm cleaning them and getting some nice lather going. Then grab a damp sponge to wipe them off and the sponge is totally black. huh? They're brand new. Why is the sponge black? So I rinse them off and wash them again. And again... black on the sponge. So I washed them a third time and I am still getting some black on my sponge. Has anyone encountered this? Should I keep washing them? I feel like it's not going to stop. Any adivce? Thanks.
I use Dawn dish soap and then the SEM soap and it worked awesome. If you scrub them hard with 400 to 600 grit grey scotch brite it might have opened up the plastic so you might be getting so off gas color. Should be fine if you paint them. Just make sure they are clean and dry before painting.
Yeah I started using some Simple Green as a pre-wash, figuring that it would help me to save from using up all the SEM soap early on because I was going through it pretty fast. I assume that Simple green would be good since it's a degreaser but not harsh, and not a solvent. It seemed to work well. Then I finished with the SEM soap.
Yeah it's weird, I wasn't scrubbing the new door panels hard or anything. Was really surprised to see them get my sponge all black.
off gas color? Was that a typo or... not sure what that means? I wonder if these aftermarket panels are a different type of plastic than the originals.
The next step after the SEM soap was to wipe with the SEM Plastic / Leather Prep which is a solvent, and when I did that, the rag turned black also. Again, these are brand new. There shouldn't be any significant dirt on there. It was clearly the plastic rubbing off on the rag. Strange.
In any case, I got them clean and I am gonna shoot them today, hopefully.
I took some dish soup and washed my door panels and when they were rinsed and dry, I took a rag and wetted it with MEK- methyl ethyl ketone- and quickly but completely wiped them with it. The MEK softens the plastic and improves the adhesion, but be careful and wear gloves and respirator and don't overwipe. Then I painted them with the SEM in 3 light coats and so far, it's stuck perfectly. For what it's worth. :cheers:
I use Sem plastic adhesion promoter before shooting color.
Quote from: Cuda Cody on January 26, 2020, 04:59:34 PM
I use Dawn dish soap and then the SEM soap and it worked awesome. If you scrub them hard with 400 to 600 grit grey scotch brite it might have opened up the plastic so you might be getting so off gas color. Should be fine if you paint them. Just make sure they are clean and dry before painting.
:iagree: Great advice right here, and don't forget the adhesion promotor :alan2cents:
YES on the respirator, the gloves, and the adhesion promoter, indeed! Now I understand why that stuff works so well. It's STICKY! Its like spraying a thin mist of glue on there.
Just finished doing most of my plastics. Still have to do the dashpad but I think this SEM paint looks very nice indeed.
Pics attached - (might look a little glossy but I took these right after I was done so it may still be a lil wet)
Fantastic job :twothumbsup: panels look brand new :worship:
:iagree: They look factory from the pictures. :perfect10:
Any tips of what to do if your panels have cracks/scratches/gouges?
Quote from: Cbridgewater on January 27, 2020, 02:44:35 PM
Any tips of what to do if your panels have cracks/scratches/gouges?
Yeah, learn to live with it. lol That or replace the panel. I don't know of any way to really do any bodywork to them but I'm sure one could if they were resourceful enough.
The paint is actually pretty good at making them less noticeable because you're working with a textured surface. The deep ones are still visible, but less noticeable. Really depends on what your expectations are I guess.
Quote from: Cbridgewater on January 27, 2020, 02:44:35 PM
Any tips of what to do if your panels have cracks/scratches/gouges?
one of my a-pillar pieces had a tab break off, I successfully used a 2 part plastic epoxy weld on the back side (roughed it up a little for better adhesion) and you can barely see it now. if I had to paint it, it probably wouldn't show. but they are my originals and didn't want repops (nor repainting in blue)
We used to have a vinyl repair guy come in to the shop and one day, I watched him. He repaired the crack via plastic welding and adding raw vinyl until he had the surface built up to where it needed to be. Then he mixed up a 2" puddle of bondo and applied it right on top of the patterned vinyl beside the repair. Watching it carefully, he waited until the bondo was setting, but not fully hard and he lifted it off the vinyl surface. He'd just made a pattern of the vinyl pebbling and using the heat gun on the raw vinyl, he softened it up and pressed the pattern into it until it cooled and then removed the bondo leaving an excellent similar surface. He then took his airbrush out and mixed some vinyl paints together to get a colour match and applied it. He feathered it out and coated it until the blend was virtually invisible, leaving me with the impression that this guy'd just done a wee piece of magic- right there before me. So after a very long tale, yes, you CAN repair plastic, but you've GOT to know what you're doing. Have fun. :cheers:
Thats awesome. [emoji106]
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Mr Lee,
If you don't mind, take a group picture of the products you used for me to reference down the road :thankyou:
Looks like the paint added texture?
Quote from: Mr Lee on January 26, 2020, 04:34:45 PM
hen grab a damp sponge to wipe them off and the sponge is totally black. huh? They're brand new. Why is the sponge black? So I rinse them off and wash them again. And again... black on the sponge. So I washed them a third time and I am still getting some black on my sponge.
I noticed with my black Metro panels they were painted or dyed when I bought them. I'm not sure if all the Metro panels have this done to them or only certain batches if the color is a little off. I would keep cleaning them until no more black comes off. There is a chance that your panels were painted but not properly prepped, so you don't want to dye over that.
Quote from: Jocigar on January 28, 2020, 03:15:39 PM
Mr Lee,
If you don't mind, take a group picture of the products you used for me to reference down the road :thankyou:
Looks like the paint added texture?
No I don't think the paint added any texture. It just lets the existing texture of the panel show through, as it should.
Here is a pic of the products I used. From left to right is the order in which you use them.
SEM soap - to clean the panels (with soap and water)
Plastic and Leather prep - is a solvent you wipe everything down with - to get any oils from your fingertips etc right before you spray
Plastic Adhesion Promoter - this gets sprayed on right before you spray the color. It's like primer but clear. It helps the paint to stick really well.
Color Coat - this is the paint you spray on as the final color.
This stuff comes in aerosol cans or by the quart if you have an air spray gun.
Oh, there is another SEM product for prepping vinyl (not pictured). It's called Vinyl Prep I think. That's for doing stuff like the dash, the door grabs, and sunvisor pads I assume? (soft stuff) And maybe seat covers? I haven't used that yet. And I don't know if anyone else here has used it but when I do the dash, I'm going to use that.
The can all the way to the right - Restoration Shop Acrylic Lacquer - is what I used to paint the metal dash FRAME (and glove box door, ash tray door) as well as the steering column - this is a textured paint to match the factory suede finish - I believe only the 70-71 models get this? But someone may correct me on that. But those are the only places on the car that the suede paint goes, the dash frame and the steering column.
Hope that helps and good luck.
Quote from: cudaize on January 28, 2020, 04:01:03 PM
Quote from: Mr Lee on January 26, 2020, 04:34:45 PM
hen grab a damp sponge to wipe them off and the sponge is totally black. huh? They're brand new. Why is the sponge black? So I rinse them off and wash them again. And again... black on the sponge. So I washed them a third time and I am still getting some black on my sponge.
I noticed with my black Metro panels they were painted or dyed when I bought them. I'm not sure if all the Metro panels have this done to them or only certain batches if the color is a little off. I would keep cleaning them until no more black comes off. There is a chance that your panels were painted but not properly prepped, so you don't want to dye over that.
Are you sure? And they were brand new I assume? Can't imagine why they would be painted. These are injection molded. And from what I know about that, its a process where they start out with little plastic pellets that are the same color as the finished product. They're heated and pressed into a mold. So, the product is the same color all the way through. Meaning, you could cut the piece in half and it would be the same color on the inside as it is the outside. So not sure why they would be painted. I think they know we're going to paint them once we get them.
In any case, I painted mine already and they look great. The first door panel, I scrubbed it 3 times. The other door panel I just washed lightly once and let it dry. Then followed the regular procedure to paint them as all the rest of the panels.
Thank you !! you went above and beyond.
Did you prime dash frame and column first ?
I wonder if they offer color coat in white..
Quote from: Jocigar on January 29, 2020, 05:23:25 AM
Thank you !! you went above and beyond.
Did you prime dash frame and column first ?
I wonder if they offer color coat in white..
No problem. Glad I could help someone on here for once. I feel like people are always helping me so...
Yes, you should prime any metal parts with primer... including the side covers for the seats, windshield / window trim on the interior that are metal. The metal pieces don't need the adhesion promoter, etc. from what I understand, just prep them as you would with primer and make sure they're clean before painting... and of course get any rust off. I stripped my windshield trim down to bare metal on the bench grinder with a wire wheel and that got any bit of rust off and got them nice and clean, but didn't hurt the grain. A bead blaster would have been good too. But if yours aren't rusty then you might not need to strip them to bare metal like I did.
I would think that they have at least one shade of white. It's been awhile since I bought it but I think they can mix up whatever color you want?
Maybe it's just me, but I find when you prime metal parts first, they tend to scratch easier ? :dunno: I like using a good quality paint right over a well prepped metal part :alan2cents:
On bare metal I use etch-primer, A thin coat. :alan2cents:
Self etching primer, yes.
I wouldn't paint anything metal without priming it first - at least not bare metal. Just like you wouldn't paint the body of a car without priming it first.
Quote from: anlauto on January 29, 2020, 06:08:58 AM
Maybe it's just me, but I find when you prime metal parts first, they tend to scratch easier ? :dunno: I like using a good quality paint right over a well prepped metal part :alan2cents:
I have to be very careful commenting against this "expert" member, I might get another "vacation", with that said, a "quality" shop will never paint over bare metal with paint, ever. :looney:
Quote from: Mr Lee on January 27, 2020, 07:00:21 AM
Yeah I started using some Simple Green as a pre-wash, figuring that it would help me to save from using up all the SEM soap early on because I was going through it pretty fast. I assume that Simple green would be good since it's a degreaser but not harsh, and not a solvent. It seemed to work well. Then I finished with the SEM soap.
Yeah it's weird, I wasn't scrubbing the new door panels hard or anything. Was really surprised to see them get my sponge all black.
off gas color? Was that a typo or... not sure what that means? I wonder if these aftermarket panels are a different type of plastic than the originals.
The next step after the SEM soap was to wipe with the SEM Plastic / Leather Prep which is a solvent, and when I did that, the rag turned black also. Again, these are brand new. There shouldn't be any significant dirt on there. It was clearly the plastic rubbing off on the rag. Strange.
In any case, I got them clean and I am gonna shoot them today, hopefully.
The manufacturer of these panels, as good as they are, had an issue with tint in the material when they were injected. The panels came out slightly "iridescent" so they had to be dyed to make the color consistent. Not sure if all the panels were that way since they've been run, at least, three times now.
I'll have to try that next time, thanks for the tip. :bigthumb:
Primer discussion is interesting. On the surface it seems logical especially on body sheetmetal.
I used Seymour rattle cans directly onto blasted suspension parts 25 years ago and they held up very well. especially the cast gray finish, the silver pigment had some pinhead rust showing.
On the other hand, I freshly blasted my hood hinges and used SEM self etch and two months later it had rust breaking through.
last summer, I used rustolium primer and Seymour paint and eastwood diamond clear during my suspension refurbishment, they did scratch easy, especially if primer didn't have several days to harden... we'll see how they do over time.
One thing for sure, I don't trust SEM self etch primer in rattle can anymore... so suggestion are welcome.
I know painting with a gun would be better all around.
thx!
This may be a good topic to start a new thread on. Yeah, your situation seems mysterious.
First off, I am no expert on paint and body work. I took a year of auto body in high school and am a backyard DIY'er. That said...
Did you prep all those parts the same way? Wipe them down good with some solvent prior to painting.
Was the surface scuffed properly? It cant be too smooth.
Was the temperature different?
Humidity?
The time you wait between laying the primer down and then the paint is also something to note. Wait too long (like 24 hours) the primer totally dries (too much) and then you're supposed to scuff it lightly before you paint. Someone feel free to correct me. Again just stating what I think is true and from what I've read. You're supposed to lay down the primer, let it "flash" which means let the liquid dry out of it (just a few minutes) but don't let it dry totally cause then it will harden, then lay the paint on so it can stick better. If you're using a rattle can the directions state this on the can.
My two cents. There are tons of very knowledgeable guys on here who know a hell of a lot more than I do though.
Quote from: Jocigar on January 29, 2020, 09:01:35 AM
Primer discussion is interesting. On the surface it seems logical especially on body sheetmetal.
I used Seymour rattle cans directly onto blasted suspension parts 25 years ago and they held up very well. especially the cast gray finish, the silver pigment had some pinhead rust showing.
On the other hand, I freshly blasted my hood hinges and used SEM self etch and two months later it had rust breaking through.
last summer, I used rustolium primer and Seymour paint and eastwood diamond clear during my suspension refurbishment, they did scratch easy, especially if primer didn't have several days to harden... we'll see how they do over time.
One thing for sure, I don't trust SEM self etch primer in rattle can anymore... so suggestion are welcome.
I know painting with a gun would be better all around.
thx!
It seems painting parts come up often on this website, one thing I can tell you as a professional restorer, if your painting parts and not powder coating, if it's not a "catalyzed" paint or primer, you will never get the longevity with single stage "non-catalyzed" rattle can paint. Your true "professional" restorers will never use rattle can paint for anything. Rattle can paint is left for the enthusiast, not a true professional.
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I noticed with my black Metro panels they were painted or dyed when I bought them. I'm not sure if all the Metro panels have this done to them or only certain batches if the color is a little off. I would keep cleaning them until no more black comes off. There is a chance that your panels were painted but not properly prepped, so you don't want to dye over that.
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Are you sure? And they were brand new I assume? Can't imagine why they would be painted. These are injection molded. And from what I know about that, its a process where they start out with little plastic pellets that are the same color as the finished product. They're heated and pressed into a mold. So, the product is the same color all the way through. Meaning, you could cut the piece in half and it would be the same color on the inside as it is the outside. So not sure why they would be painted. I think they know we're going to paint them once we get them.
In any case, I painted mine already and they look great. The first door panel, I scrubbed it 3 times. The other door panel I just washed lightly once and let it dry. Then followed the regular procedure to paint them as all the rest of the panels.
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They were definitely brand new Metro panels. I bought them from Metro at Carlisle about 7-8 years ago. I had held off buying them as I was hoping they would come out with Convertible ones and wanted to buy them together figuring this would be the best chance of getting them to match. Since Metro seemed to be winding down their automotive business, to focus on selling of all things skateboards, I bought a set of front panels before they were no longer available. The only way I could tell they were painted/dyed was that there were clip nuts installed in the armrest area and they were painted black, when removed the sheen in this area was slightly different.
I'm assuming that they used SEM Landau Black or something very close. I compared the repro panels to my original rears after cleaning them and they were close to identical in color. Since my one original was slightly sun bleached I lightly misted both with SEM Landau Black after cleaning and using the adhesion promoter. I am very happy with how the repros match the originals. In the picture below the shading of them look slightly off but in person the difference is imperceptible. These panels are one of the best reproductions I have come across.
Cudaize,
They look great.
So did metro stop making these panels? Wondering if one day, years from now, if I damage one of my door panels, will they still be available? Should i buy another set and just put em away? If theyre $500 now, will they be more expensive in ten years?
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I'm with you Ola, the panels are in my top 3 parts ever reproduced for an ebody aside from sheet metal. Yea, I couldn't figure out Joel doing skate boards either, pretty sure Classic Industries bought all his tooling except for the interior panels made by Jesse Lia in Taiwan. Dave Radcliff (good friend) from Roseville, a sponsor on this website, picked up the manufacturing of all the panels thru Jesse Lia and has been supplying them ever since.