Hi all,
After a few month of waiting my seat covers kit arrived from legendary.
Its a full kit, foam cloth hog rings etc. 1970 cuda in white
I watched the legendary youtube videos some time back... any hands on advise from those of you that have done this before?
Which frame section would you start with ?
Thank You !!
Oh, I did this a few years ago. It was hard work but was kinda fun. First make sure you have all the parts and tools. The fabric can get VERY tight and you need to really tug on it to get the hog rings in place. I used a set of wide mouth vise grips or something similer to disperse the tension to prevent tearing when pulling the vinyl around the frame. It may have been a different tool, but you get the idea.
Make sure it is warm cause you will need to stretch the vinyl. I didn't really use any heat gun or anything. I did put them by the heater for a bit to get them pliable when I started.
I mostly used the legendary video and followed that fairly closely. I also saw this old article and if you click the "show all photos" and go in around 15 videos in you will see them lining the burlap with wire. THis is how mine was when I tore it down. I found some welding wire at home depot and I added it. I think that was the only deviation from the Legendary Videos.
https://www.hotrod.com/articles/mopp-9904-how-to-install-front-and-rear-seats/?galleryimageid=356219
The other thing is, I ran out of hog rings. I was short about 10 or so. I went down to a local car custom upholstery shop and they gave me a handful or sold them for a couple bucks, I can't remember.
Go slow, take your time. Measure and go slow. Test fit. Work inside out. Basically follow the vids.
Oh, and another thing, be careful with the spray glue you use. I used the super strong glue and it dries hard. When I followed the directions for the headrest part, I got extra glue on the outside which was not smooth and it dried all hard and snotty. You can feel it through the vinyl. So make sure you use more appropriate glue or make sure you remove any imperfections before putting the covers on.
Here are some pics
Remove the covers from the boxes and lay them flat for about a week in a warm room (Store the covers away from cats. *see my later note).
This is so the vinyl can stretch out and de-wrinkle. Remember, the warmer the vinyl is, the easier it is to stretch and the more forgiving it is if you have to cut the hogrings and readjust the position.
Start with the back seat upper cushion. That's the easiest one to start with, then the rear seat bottom. Use a lot of the cotton layers; like five or more layers for the upper back frame. The package they sent has enough raw cotton to do two or three back seats.
NOTE: there is a specific driver's side and passenger side upper front seat cover. The difference is in where the hole is cut underneath, and stitched for the latch mechanism to engage with the bracket from the seat bottom. I lucked out and installed my on the correct seat frames by accident. I would have been really pissed if I had to pull them all apart again to swap sides. Leave one front seat intact while you do the other, just for reference. Take a lot of photos while you disassemble, especially of where the various hogrings are attached to the frames.
Follow the Year One videos. I set up a laptop on a nightstand in front of my work area and I'd follow along with the Year One video and pause it during various stages, then rewind and watch again as I went along.
Buy at least 1000 3/4" galvanized hogrings and a good quality hogring pliers and a good pair of cutting pliers to cut/remove the rings. You will probably waste a hundred or so hogrings during the process. I got mine from Amazon for around $16 per bag of 500.
Buy some 3M general adhesive cleaner #08987 if you are using any type of headliner or spray contact adhesive. It works like magic and doesn't stain upholstery like other types of solvent.
Make sure your hands are surgically clean. I was doing a white interior for my car and had to make sure I did no other car work that day, beforehand. You do a lot of tugging and pulling and if you have any grease or dirt under your nails or in your finger prints, it will transfer permanently into the material.
Cover your floor with clean cardboard and work on that. I recently did my white cuda interior down in the basement that way.
https://forum.e-bodies.org/your-restoration-project-roseville-moparts/10/shes-finally-purple-again-fc7-70-shaker-cuda340/17307/135
Do one cushion a day. There is a lot of gripping and pulling and you will really feel it in your hands and forearms the next day. Also, trim your fingernails a day before. One nick from a sharp nail and the you will really be angry at yourself.
Oh, and if you have cats, cover your new seat covers with cardboard when you step away. The last thing you need are the felines kneeding your new vinyl with their needle claws. I caught my evil mega-cat approaching my seat covers as I was walking out. HELL NO, Mr. Kitty.
Plastic trash bags... Install the foam then cover the foam with trash bags, then pull the cover over the trash bag... It will slide over without binding on the foam like it's velcro... Once the cover is in place tear the plastic bag out & finish the install....
If you are using new foam for the seats...
1. Glue the 2 pieces of the backrest together. #92 spray adhesive. With 40 grit sandpaper sand the surfaces that you will glue. They will stick better. After the glue sets(I would wait a day) then sand the joint where the 2 cushions meet, so that joint won't show through the cover.
2. Also in the kits you should receive some white muslin. Cut sections and glue that to the back and lower sides of the seat, and the bottom and back of the backrest. These allow you to pre-attach the cushions to the frame.
3. Are you using original burlap? Is the 'shoddy pad' (this is the stuff that is also used as insulation under the dash, it looks like chopped up rags and lint...because that's what it is) wrapped over the seat wire perimeter under the foam cushion? If not, you need to add something there. Lots of people ignore this and the wire will eventually cut/wear through the foam.
4. I have found the lower corners of the backrest just get in the way and stick out from the cover. Be prepared to cut that off or tuck it in.
Do you have the original hold down wires? These slide into the loops in the seams that get drawn into the foam.
Positioning, fore and aft of the seat cover is key. Don't forget the foam compresses. You may be positioning it further back than you initially might think is right.
Depending on your circumstances ..I have placed the cover in the dryer for a minute on medium heat. It should be inside out. Don't have the pull down wires in the cover. A warm cover will upholster tons easier. But once you pull it out you need to work fast.
For the backrest, top perpendicular piece first. (Dryer?) Pull the cover down a bit before hog-ringing the sides. Your greatest chance to rip the cover will be when you wrap the cover around the back. There is a lot of stress at the top and center.. If the cover is warm, this helps a lot. Interlock the plastic hems.
Lots of massaging. Hopefully you have strong hands.
E Body seat frames are notorious for not giving an exact alignment of seat and backrest, or horizontal backrest seams. If this is a concern for you, you may want to pre assemble the seat frames with foam only and mark lines with a sharpie. Then use those lines as a guide.
Thanks for all the help guys... lot of good advise!
Turns out the only sent the install kits, not the actual covers but it gives me something to start on.. the kits look really complete, down to hold down wires and hog rings and plier. I do have a pair of visegrips with similar duckbill on them.. good idea to temporarily hold covers in place.
I didn't know that year one also had videos? will look for them.
I'm sure I will be referring back to this thread as I go along :bradsthumb:
Sorry, I misspoke. I meant the Legendary videos.
Buy extra hogrings! There were not nearly enough in the installation kit.
I ordered my seat covers in July and got them in December.
Started on back seat. Looking at 69 charger video since they don’t have one for ebody back seats. I must have hit rewind 50 times and I’m just done with burlap. Lol
Question how many layers of Cotton do I use ? They gave me two big rolls but I think it’s only used on back rest section ? They say 3-5 layers. Thanks !
Also just Realized that I didn't use this roll and it's not in the video. Hope I didn't miss a step ?
Legendary has videos on doing e-body seats.
Here is one for 70 Challenger buckets:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4the6ueeIW8
It shows how to use the roll of felt material.
They also have other videos on prepping e-body seat foam and other year e-body seats.
Its not hard, if you have access to a steamer its a big help
Making decent but slow progress.
Wondering how many cotton layers y'all used on back seat top.
Also, noticed my lower bucket covers don't have listing wire insert .., Is that normal for 70 cuda ?
The grey material in your photo is the listing wire channel. My Legendary covers were sewn with one continuous channel, instead of three individual channels, which how my original covers were sewn (one for the front wire and two sides). I cut two slits in mine near the corner where the front wire transitions to the sides.
Mine were 70 Cuda. Probably not the best pics, but they are all I have at the moment.
Thanks for the help and photos.
I will have another look tonight, mine are also continuous... the only thing is that I expected the grey material to have more of a flap so that it reaches through the foam to the seat frame listing wire. It does not seem possible with zero slack that the cover will fit through, and stretch over the foam?
BTW, When cutting the foam, should you cut all the way around the crease? doesn't seem right to cut a big U-shape that almost entirely separates the seat foam into two sections.
Quote from: Jocigar on March 15, 2021, 07:12:08 AM
Thanks for the help and photos.
I will have another look tonight, mine are also continuous... the only thing is that I expected the grey material to have more of a flap so that it reaches through the foam to the seat frame listing wire. It does not seem possible with zero slack that the cover will fit through, and stretch over the foam?
BTW, When cutting the foam, should you cut all the way around the crease? doesn't seem right to cut a big U-shape that almost entirely separates the seat foam into two sections.
Yep, all the way around. After you hog ring the listing cord down and the cover is flipped inside out, if you have a way to warm the covers, they will stretch way easier. You might heat the same seat bottom several times before you're done.
Quote from: Jocigar on March 15, 2021, 07:12:08 AM
Thanks for the help and photos.
I will have another look tonight, mine are also continuous... the only thing is that I expected the grey material to have more of a flap so that it reaches through the foam to the seat frame listing wire. It does not seem possible with zero slack that the cover will fit through, and stretch over the foam?
BTW, When cutting the foam, should you cut all the way around the crease? doesn't seem right to cut a big U-shape that almost entirely separates the seat foam into two sections.
I did not cut the crease all the way around, and my original foams were not cut that way either. I just cut slits (probably 1.5 to 2 inches long) at each spot where I was going to place a hog ring. The Legendary videos I watched show the installer make much longer cuts, but those videos weren't available when I first started this process. I suppose that either way works. :alan2cents:
Not sure if the Barracuda seats differ, I would think not. For me, I followed the videos fairly closely. I don't think I deviated much at all. As for the rear seats, I think I followed that same charger video. I also watched a ton of generic seat rebuilding videos.
These arn't E body specifics, but I found watching a bunch of other stuff gets you prepared for doing the work and can give you tips. I couldn't find all the ones I watched but these were some.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9qllpW7yWI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPc50t8AdCw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQ6WnRoxL5M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUo_UsTBhTo&list=PLmcBK6SLWd-BAHlK2xtCN2itOW3EYJcLM&index=5
https://www.hotrod.com/articles/mopp-9904-how-to-install-front-and-rear-seats/#9904-mopp-01-pl-install-front-and-rear-seats-front-and-rear-seats
Thank you all,
I tried to install the upper back cover last night after installing cotton and muslin to the frame.
I was 1/2" short of being able to flip the vinyl over the last corner. This is when I started thinking I should use heat as suggested... a blow drier or maybe put the seat in front of fireplace to catch the radiant heat?
I see that heat is used both to stretch and to remove wrinkles? I have a heat gun but am hesitant the use that since its easy to make a mistake and overheat/blemish. Thanks again for the continued help.
IMO - keep the heat gun in the toolbox! :stop:
Use the sun or a heating pad like you'd use for a sore back. A steamer is very useful for getting wrinkles out.
Heating is good. The heating gun can be used, just don't hold it in a single spot for any length of time and keep it far away. But if you have other sources, consider them first. Placing it near, but not too close to a fire or heater before work would be good, but again, keep an eye on it. Don't go for quick heat. Mine was a workout It was NOT easy. At times I thought I might tear the cover. That is where the duck bill vice grips came in handy. They helped grab enough material and let me leverage it against the frame a bit. Much of it wasn't bad, just a few places really. Just have patients and understand it will be a bit of work and it should come along.
IMO - I used everything under the sun and tried all different sorts of methods (most of which have already been mentioned here). I even ripped one of the seams out of my brand new seat cover trying to pull it tight enough over the frame and foam . . . I just stitched it back together with some black thread and kept on going. What worked the best for myself was to install the cover as tight as I could get it and just let it sit for a couple of days in place. After a few days had past, I strategically cut some of the hog rings and pulled the cover even tighter (working in small sections) and re-hog ringed it into it's final place. Always working from the inside (center of the seat) toward the outside edges. If you go slow and take your time, it will turn out just fine!
Warm sunny days worked best for me, but I didn't have that luxury when I did my last bucket seat back, so used my wife's hair dryer. It worked OK, but you can only apply heat to a small area instead over the entire cover. Spring is nearly here, if you aren't in too much of a rush I'd wait for warmer days. The covers stretch soooo much nicer when the entire thing is warm.
Claudia's suggestion above about letting things sit for a few days, removing a couple of hog rigs, and then pulling the covers tighter is also a good one. Also the part about working from the center towards the outside edges. You will be surprised how much farther the covers will move when you continually "massage" the covers over the foam from the center toward the edges. :alan2cents:
So I let the covers sit on the seats for a few months, ready to hog ring them in place over winter.
Concerns before final stretch:
-empty looking lateral sides on the front seat.. maybe it will stretch over foam and fill in.
-the seam at the top end of the front seat is a bit wavy but I dont think i can fix that just the way it was made
-the seat back upper corners don't look good, not seating well.
@njsteve (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/njsteve_6623) please tell me about your side panels and seat backs... original, aftermarket, refinished? I found and old post referring to SEM Sailcloth white vinyl spray.
thanks
I've done two sets of Challenger front bucket seats and on both I had them sitting in the sun in my living room and also used a hairdryer while messaging small wrinkles and ripples, which may have helped a little.
One time I brought the subject up to an interior shop guy who had a display at a car show, and he said the trick was to park the car out in the sun for a while with the windows up after installing the reupholstered seats.
With the last time I redid seats, I tried that, and sure enough they flattened right out and looked perfect!
Around the same time, a friend of mine had a shop redo his seats in his cuda, and later a buddy of mine remarked how much better my job looked than the seats in the cuda, which still had some ripples in them despite being done professionally. That made me feel good!
I must confess though, that at some point later, while sitting in the car I started getting poked in my posterior, and then found a hog ring I hadn't oriented right was jabbing me, so I had to fix that fubar. Make sure all your hog rings have the pointy ends down, it only takes one turned around to mess things up a bit!
Looks good so far! I think you'll be surprised how much better they will look after some heat and stretching. That upper corner area of the seatbacks will probably require a bit of finesse to lay just the way that you want it to, just take your time and be patient with it. Don't just try to pull on the edges of the covers to get the wrinkles out. Instead, start where you have a pucker and use your thumbs to push the cover in the direction you want to stretch it, then "roll" that loose material over the corner of the foam. Hopefully that makes sense. Good luck with it.
Hi all, trying to fully hog ring the covers in place.
I started with seat bottom last night and already questioning the fit.
Is this what 70 should look like on back side ? the back lower corners don't overlap.
It doesn't meet my quality mark despite an hour of pulling and stretching, but maybe that is how factory looked ? thanks
What Covers? I used Legendary and I thought they fit pretty good. It is hard to tell but it looks like the cover isn't super tight. Mine had lots of tension, which would close that gap a bit, but not sure if it would completely fix the overlap.
legendary covers, I was pulling and stretching trying to get the material to move to the back, but once you ring the cover to the springs there is not much more you can do since that is the intended anchor point.
The cover is very snug; pull, swipe, roll over edge, hold and repeat until I got to the securing locations. Not a fun project, dreading doing it again for my 71. less than perfect bothers me unfortunately.
Quote from: Jocigar on November 19, 2021, 08:43:37 AM
Hi all, trying to fully hog ring the covers in place.
I started with seat bottom last night and already questioning the fit.
Is this what 70 should look like on back side ? the back lower corners don't overlap.
It doesn't meet my quality mark despite an hour of pulling and stretching, but maybe that is how factory looked ? thanks
Although it seems like this would be a nice job for a late fall or winter evening, it is really best done on a sunny 90 degree day so that you can really warm the covers up in the sun. A hair dryer, or heat gun used carefully, can help, but IMHO those methods pale in comparison to a hot sunny day. With some heat, you'll be able to stretch that cover further over the edges of the metal frame and be able to pull it together nicer. :alan2cents:
Here are some pics of the first seat bottom I ever did.
thanks for the pictures, I wish I had those results.
Maybe I should not have tried to stretched the piping over the edge of the corners. your piping looks like it sits inside of the back corners.
I wonder if covers could have been made differently since I did reach all the securing points.
Quote from: Jocigar on November 19, 2021, 11:23:26 AM
thanks for the pictures, I wish I had those results.
Maybe I should not have tried to stretched the piping over the edge of the corners. your piping looks like it sits inside of the back corners.
I wonder if covers could have been made differently since I did reach all the securing points.
Can you post a pic showing yours from the bottom (similar to my third pic)?
Few more pics. Maybe material was cut differently, not wide enough center flap.
I only pulled one side flap tight so far. Thanks
Based on all the wrinkles in your photos, I think your problem is not enough stretch, instead of the material being cut differently.
You can really get these covers to stretch quite a bit when you heat them up. The problem with using a hair dryer or heat gun is that you can't heat up the whole thing and keep it hot enough to really be effective. If it was me, up here in the dark and damp PNW, I'd put that project aside until a sunny day in June or July. If you don't have that kind of time or patience, maybe try setting them up in front of a fireplace or wood stove until they are almost too hot to touch. You should be able to work all those wrinkles out in the front corners and get the rear corners to close up tighter. It may take a few cycles of heating and then stretching to get the results you want.
If you compare these two photos you can see that on mine the cover is pulled up much higher on the back corners of the seat frame. Also, along the bottom edge my cover has been pulled tight enough to roll over the edge of the frame that it is hog-ringed to.
Pic of a factory original 70 Cuda seat bottom for comparison.