I have a 70 Challenger RT with factory AC and looking for a solution to ignition replacement. Stock car, local driving use. The car came with an upgraded Proform electronic ignition. I had issues with it and also found many quality control problems. Pertronics and MSD distributors are too tall with the AC system. Do I go back to stock distributor with maybe Pertronics electronic upgraded pick up? Your suggestion would be much appreciated.
Quote from: Aloha Randy on February 10, 2022, 12:41:32 PM
I have a 70 Challenger RT with factory AC and looking for a solution to ignition replacement. Stock car, local driving use. The car came with an upgraded Proform electronic ignition. I had issues with it and also found many quality control problems. Pertronics and MSD distributors are too tall with the AC system. Do I go back to stock distributor with maybe Pertronics electronic upgraded pick up? Your suggestion would be much appreciated.
Many may disagree, but for a "fun car" that only gets used for cruising on nice days, I don't see a downside to going back to the original points distributor. For me, alot of the appeal of driving an old car is embracing the technology of its time and I like messing around with my car, so having to regap a set of points every couple of years isn't a bother.
Factory electronic is hard to beat. Inexpensive, replacement parts everywhere. Just buy and extra ECU as this was the most common failure and it just plugs in.
As far as playing with your car, there are plenty of other things that normally don't get checked regularly like Fluid levels, air pressure, brake adjustment, etc.. just look in the front of the Factory Service Manual for normal service items.
Cars have a tendency to act up at the worst possible time..
Mancini has stock type replacement kits , I would recommend a better ECU RevnAtor is good & includes a rev limiter
Quote from: MoparLeo on February 10, 2022, 02:24:31 PM
Factory electronic is hard to beat. Inexpensive, replacement parts everywhere. Just buy and extra ECU as this was the most common failure and it just plugs in.
Agree with MoparLeo, factory electronic is the easiest solution. Buy a new engine harness to get the ECU wiring plus the 1971-74 ECU bracket and it will look like it came that way. Also, the FBO ECU offers better spark and a rev limiter.
It can be found at www.4secondsflat.com.
https://4secondsflat.com/Ignition.html (https://4secondsflat.com/Ignition.html)
For your car I would suggest factory electronic ignition style. Cars with more modifications or that don't mind going from stock I really like MSD. I prefer to hide the box so its out of site but its great. Easily found to replace if ever needed plus allows you to get rid of the ballast.
The trouble with MSD and PerTronix billet type distributors is that they are too tall to use with factory AC systems. The hard hoses cross directly over the distributor and the stock set up just clears by an inch. the two I mentioned are great but 1 to 2 inchs too tall.
I recommend the stock style electronic ignition. Very easy to mount and use. You can hide the ECU under the battery tray or even inside the car if you desire. You can get a harness from any of the mopar parts houses and it splices in really easy. Or as recommended get a new harness that is prewired for the ECU. Thr only trouble with that is it pretty much sets your ECU location to the upper right firewall which is stock for 71 and up installs. For a 70 this isn't "correct". I ended up doing this to my 70 convert with the 318 and did it with the factory style mounting plate to replicate the "what if" look if Chrysler did option it in 70.
For boxes there are many options. The MP orange boxes have had alot of trouble over the past years. Rev N Ator is probably the best but they have been on backorder for over a year now and I fear they likely are not coming back. The standard motor products LX101 box is actually a decent unit and is a common replacement from the good old auto parts stores. I recently tried out an ebay unit supposedly made by E berg that is on my convert. So far no issues. I always carry a spare unit, coil, and ballast for the rainy day so I'm not worried if it goes out.
You could reach out to Joe White on facebook. He sells a lot of parts and does pertronics conversions along with a host of other distributor related items. He may have a kit to sell actually. Good guy to know actually.
Good luck!
For being cheap, stock is hard to beat. But just about any aftermarket system will outperform it. A stock Mopar dizzy with an MSD box is a significant step up.
If you are not a fan of MSD, there are other multi spark ignitions out there.
I'm a fan of MSD, but there are detractors and supporters for all of them.
I've been using the FBO ignition box for years and it works great. It eliminates the ballest resistor and is easy to install. I have a stock Mopar electronic distributor that's been recurved and the coil FBO recommends.
Quote from: Joegrapes on February 11, 2022, 03:35:55 PM
I've been using the FBO ignition box for years and it works great. It eliminates the ballest resistor and is easy to install. I have a stock Mopar electronic distributor that's been recurved and the coil FBO recommends.
FBO's Don Gould recurved my factory electronic distributor on a Sun distributor machine so I could run 18° of initial and 34° total timing all in by 3400 RPM. The FBO ECU rounds out the ignition and it has worked flawlessly for the past eight years. I soldered a jumper wire on the back of the factory 1970 ballast resistor to keep the factory look.
I am currently changing over to the Holley Terminator X Stealth EFI and will use the matching Hyperspark distributor and ignition box with the Terminator X controlling the timing. No more firewall-mounted ECU or ECU bracket.
Don't waste your $$ on FBO , every single car I have installed it on has hurt the performance , I can get you one for free from a number of customer that removed it & Don would not refund the $$
My car, I would run MSD box (6AL) with MSD coil and stock distributor nearly a factory look especially if you hide the box under the battery tray or inside the firewall.
If I wanted more 'originality' I'd run the factory electronic ignition aka "orange box"
Quote from: Filthy Filbert on February 12, 2022, 03:58:41 AM
My car, I would run MSD box (6AL) with MSD coil and stock distributor nearly a factory look especially if you hide the box under the battery tray or inside the firewall.
This is what I did but the MSD is in the trunk..along with the battery.
On my '70 Cuda 440/512 stroker I upgraded to an electronic ignition with the Summit Racing SUM-851015 Electronic Mopar Distributors that came with the "Blue" (probably made in China) ECM. I had intermittent no start issues with that ECM so I recently upgraded to the Jegs made in the USA Blue ECM (https://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/40805/10002/-1) and the engine now fires right up every time. The Distributor looks stock and you can mount the ECM under the battery tray to retain the stock looking appearance of you wish. Easy conversion and a lot cheaper than going the MSD route.
Is the distributor the same height as the stock OEM? I have AC lines 1 inch above the distributor cap.
Quote from: Aloha Randy on February 12, 2022, 07:10:34 PM
Is the distributor the same height as the stock OEM? I have AC lines 1 inch above the distributor cap.
With an MSD 6AL or using the stock style ECU as USRAPTOR is suggesting, you use can the stock distributor with no issue.
I don't have any experience with FBO so I'm not sure of stock dizzy compatibility, but I think it works with stock.
Quote from: dodj on February 11, 2022, 03:18:47 PM
For being cheap, stock is hard to beat. But just about any aftermarket system will outperform it. A stock Mopar dizzy with an MSD box is a significant step up.
If you are not a fan of MSD, there are other multi spark ignitions out there.
I'm a fan of MSD, but there are detractors and supporters for all of them.
Perhaps a bones stock, oem ignition curve, non-adjustable, generic box system may give up a few horses to an aftermarket system, but an optimized stock system will be on par with nearly any aftermarket set up. Optimized being a performance curve, a strong coil, and a chrome box or equivalent.
I say this having run stock systems against aftermarket systems in my drag car over the course of many years and never seeing an appreciable difference in e.t. or m.p.h. figures between all the various systems. Stock, Jacobs, Crane, MSD, all were close enough in performance that the driver was a greater variable than any ignition system.
In this case, I'd agree with others that an OEM style electronic conversion kit will be the easiest to fit into everything, provide reliable performance, and not be a source of ongoing problems.
When I went from a stock style chrome box to an MSD box the improvement in off the line grunt was amazing. I can't give you comparison numbers cuz that is a seat of the pants gauge, but if launch is improved, Ill bet the ET would be lower. :alan2cents:
When I went from the factory ignition to a HEI ignition, I noticed a huge difference in the ease of starting the engine both cold and hot and it seemed to object less when idling in gear. When I put a new engine in the car, I went with the MSD distributor which I think uses a HEI module or a close copy of it, it got even better after starting but I mark that down to more stable timing over the factory timing which bounces around due to the springs used. Cannot comment on the performance other than easy starts because the engine is so difference.
I never particularly liked the MSD boxes as they used to like to shut down at the wrong times after driving awhile. I am sure they rectified that by now as it was a common problem in the past.
Quote from: Aloha Randy on February 12, 2022, 07:10:34 PM
Is the distributor the same height as the stock OEM? I have AC lines 1 inch above the distributor cap.
To answer your question, yes the Dist and cap are the same height as a stock OEM. I have a Shaker hood and the Dist wouldn't fit under it if it was taller than OEM.
If you decide on the stock ecu option.
Discount code for Jegs. And the blue ECU is on sale at the moment.
Save $15 Off $299, $25 Off $499, $50 Off $799, $100 Off $1,599 Orders - Promo Code: SAVINGS2022
Quote from: HP2 on February 13, 2022, 08:33:54 AM
Quote from: dodj on February 11, 2022, 03:18:47 PM
For being cheap, stock is hard to beat. But just about any aftermarket system will outperform it. A stock Mopar dizzy with an MSD box is a significant step up.
If you are not a fan of MSD, there are other multi spark ignitions out there.
I'm a fan of MSD, but there are detractors and supporters for all of them.
I say this having run stock systems against aftermarket systems in my drag car over the course of many years and never seeing an appreciable difference in e.t. or m.p.h. figures between all the various systems. Stock, Jacobs, Crane, MSD, all were close enough in performance that the driver was a greater variable than any ignition system.
:cheers: