First, let me say that I don't make nice, flowing threads. I've had this idea floating around in my head, and recently read another thread from kawahonda. Nicely done, good pictures.
Read it here.https://forum.e-bodies.org/interior/6/interior-plastic-restoration-journey/18703/msg239477#msg239477
I was looking to fix some door panels for a barracuda project, that is truly a mopar. (Mostly Old Parts And Rust).
That project has a roll cage, and it has cut outs in the door panel to clear the tubes. Street rod culture says to build up the backside of panel with expanded foam, then cover with vinyl or leather for consistent finish.
I want my cut panels to look stock..... Second project is to fix speaker holes in convertible panels.
My sample panel has been outside for many years, but not in the sun. I started by sanding with 36grit all the cracked texture off the plastic base. My first attempt which failed, showed that all the texture has to be sanded off as it is a softer layer than the plastic itself.
The next issue is adhesion of a coating to the plastic.
From fixing faded plastic, I thought plastic primer, and a polyester based paint would stick and I could apply my texture to it. While I was able to sandwich the texture between the base and topcoat, the adhesion to the plastic failed. It did allow me to give the coating and texture a good fingernail and scratch test of the surface itself. In the end a razor blade and air blower stripped the panel back to its base.
Total time on first go round was 1 hr.
15 minutes to sand texture off.
15min primer, polyester base, texture.
Once dry, sand texture to give a flat face to the round spatter of texture
Topcoat with sem formal black interior paint.
I found a can of ppg vinyl additive that I've been saving for years. It gives the finish a very soft effect and feel.
But it all came off and I started over.
Pictures from the first attempt.
S
More pictures with primer and base showing absorption
Shows texture sanded to try and replicate the flat grain .
Not very successful
One final shot of first attempt
So a good 45 minutes wasted cleaning all the edges an places it did adhere, and cleaning all the remaining factory texture.
I sprayed with a 2 part polyurethane to stick to the plastic, sprayed my texture and top coated with the same paint to soak in and encapsulate the texture. 24 hr dry, then sand the texture down to a flat top. I used 80 grit dry.. Topcoat with the sem.
Total time to paint, texture and sand and topcoat, maybe 45 minutes.
Future plans are to spot sand the black with 220 wet to see if the pebble effect gets better.
Then finish coat with the vinyl additive
Very interesting. Please keep posting.
Sure does look great compared to them in the dumpster.
No one seems to save these panels due to not being able to save the original texture.
Great job sir.
Love the pics!
I read this over & over and must be missing something but what was used as the "texture"? Was it the same Stone Guard kawahonda used?
That looks really good!
Jay Bee, we will get to that. I have several alternatives I'm working thru.
I had another batch of machine parts come through which delayed getting the rear panel resprayed. Since I use the industrial polyurethane in my interior panel coating project I thought I'd try a different process on a seat back while paint was mixed up.
I had a really nasty seat back that the texture was crumbly on. So crumbly, I had thought the plastic itself was bad. I sanded it with a da, and 60 grit and the chalky surface just flew off leaving a nice plastic back.
So I've changed my mind about any panel being too far gone to reuse for a rescue project.
This time, instead of adding texture to be encapsulated with the coating, I went with the time honored method of no air cap spatter technique. I was hoping to get the droplets to have the same base size as the factory grain, so once the heads get sanded off to flat, it would have small valleys.
No pictures of it guide coated and sanded, as they were too large in diameter. I will sand flat and repeat with a finer spatter. But today's takeaway was no junk is too far gone to practice on.
The texture method on the rear panel left some pits, like pinholes that make it not like grain. I think some of that effect might get filled in with another coat, and it's not a bad look, just not factory. Not that we will ever replicate that.
My seat back sample has been re texured with the 2 part polyurethane.
The first time, I had left too many scratches that showed through, and the texture was too large.
This texture coat was lightly sanded to flatten the round peaks. Better but too many large/small size variations
Trying for something even better, I scuff sanded that finish and hit it with another coat of SEM.
To get a finer , and longer texture pattern, I took the air cap off the paint gun, and shot across the panel.
I played with air pressure to get sufficient force, without atomizingthe spatter too much.
The SEM has a very low viscosity, so slow to get texture buildup.
I think this is looking better.
Now I'm going to get a fresh pair of junk panels and test what I've learned, and do a time study.
This is most definitely a thread to follow! :twothumbsup: :yes: :clapping:
Mr Cuda, Nice way to think outside the box. What you are doing seems like the process of putting texture on new drywall inside a house.
Guy in our club put a texture on his with a paint roller.
Had to play with paint consistency and roller texture and/or nap.
Thank you for taking the time to test this and post about it :thankyou:
I'm also going to try this and see what happens. Not much to loose besides a bit of time and some paint.
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Thanks for this. Others ideas and options are always good to see.
I'm back with another pair of seat backs. Ultra rare if in good condition, but since you can cut the leg off a bucket cover to make a split bench one, not really.
Time study, 40 minutes to sand both with 80 grit on a DA. Then some hand sand of edge detail.
I noted that the white panels were smooth plastic under the factory crumbly texture layer, but the blue panels had some nice pebble that could be used as a base layer assistant. If you didn't scratch the crap out of it sanding.
I didn't get too worried about random scratches as I give everything a texture coat that gets sanded.
Scratches are a problem and should be avoided. To completely be on the safe side, 120 grit would keep the plastic safe from random marks.
I am still using the industrial polyurethane as a base, primer if you will. I have done adhesion tests and it binds and is flexible. There are 2 part plastic primers available, but they are more expensive.
Look at how much sanding dust drops off.
Since I was painting other parts and had paint left over, I gave them a texture coat.
Today was nice and sunny, so I tried to get the paint to shrivel, sort of like what wrinkle paint does, but that didn't work. Still trying to get a coachman grain. In the end, fine pebble again, darn.
As always, applied with the air cap removed to get texture.
This will get scuffed and top coated with sem Landau black.
When is someone else going to give it a try?
Today I scuff sanded, re fogged the seat back with the polyurethane, and while still tack, put the sem black on.
For seat backs, they look good.
Going back to the rear seat panel, today was sunny, so I put the panel in the sun to simulate a parked car with interior heat.
Destruction testing of the coating time.
I started with the edges and the boss around the window crank, as they probably didn't get full prep attention.
Slightly chalky, but no peeling.
Ran fingernails, then finally the back of a razorblade till I scratched through the sem interior paint. You had to get through the interior paint before you could damage the texture, so probably as good as refinishing a faded factory panel.
Then a razor blade to destroy the coating on my way to stripping it again.
Next test, 2 part plastic primer with texture.
:bigthumb: Impressive. Thanks so much for sharing all of this with us. I think I am going to spend the time to attempt to achieve the same thing. This is great.
I have sanded the texture off of panels and painted the sem black with adhesion primer.
The look okay, but look terribly incorrect.
I've not tried the textured undercoating and am very curious as to the results.
In residential building there are multiple styles of spray textures depending upon your thickness of product and what type of product is being applied. Not once have I seen anything that compares to the factory texture referenced as the Coachman's grain.
As a residential general contractor I deal with items like concrete that gets stamping often times.
I've thought of sanding down a panel smooth, extensively cleaning the panel, then using some type of a silicone stamp that is a copy of the original texture to install a texture on the panels. Then adhesion paint and spray paint. The silicone stamp would be pretty simple to create but I am unaware of what could be used as a semi liquid that will both adhere to the original plastics and harden enough to be slightly flexible.
Thanks for the pictures and your time to share your experience's with all of us.
Quote from: cuda hunter on May 21, 2022, 10:02:49 AM
I have sanded the texture off of panels and painted the sem black with adhesion primer.
The look okay, but look terribly incorrect.
I've not tried the textured undercoating and am very curious as to the results.
In residential building there are multiple styles of spray textures depending upon your thickness of product and what type of product is being applied. Not once have I seen anything that compares to the factory texture referenced as the Coachman's grain.
As a residential general contractor I deal with items like concrete that gets stamping often times.
I've thought of sanding down a panel smooth, extensively cleaning the panel, then using some type of a silicone stamp that is a copy of the original texture to install a texture on the panels. Then adhesion paint and spray paint. The silicone stamp would be pretty simple to create but I am unaware of what could be used as a semi liquid that will both adhere to the original plastics and harden enough to be slightly flexible.
Thanks for the pictures and your time to share your experience's with all of us.
@cuda hunter (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/cuda-hunter_176) interesting you noted the silicone stamp.
That is exactly what I have been pondering as an attempt.
Would be simple enough to mold a silicone impression of the actual texture. Then set it up on a roller.
Repair panel surfaces. Then as the surfacing cures, roll the surface texture on it. Obviously the sharp edge lines couldn't be done.
I have an update to follow, but regarding a "imprint " to duplicate coachman, sure. Reverse pattern of course.
It would be easier get a sheet of it in silicon, and lay it over the whole panel that has been coated with something (but what?). Once cured, pull off the template.
The problem I see with something small on a roller is digging into a curved surface with the roller edge. And buildup on the roller or "tracking".
But here we are, with the options of buying metro/ palco or trying something.
I'm trying something different right now.
In concrete, the stamp is round and overlayed on top of other stamp patterns. Therefor blending the stamps together. Spinning each stamp as you lay and "stamp" the wet concrete so as to not create a Patterned look.
Quote from: Mr Cuda on May 25, 2022, 05:11:15 PM
I have an update to follow, but regarding a "imprint " to duplicate coachman, sure. Reverse pattern of course.
It would be easier get a sheet of it in silicon, and lay it over the whole panel that has been coated with something (but what?). Once cured, pull off the template.
The problem I see with something small on a roller is digging into a curved surface with the roller edge. And buildup on the roller or "tracking".
But here we are, with the options of buying metro/ palco or trying something.
I'm trying something different right now.
Agreed the "tracking" would be difficult to blend.
I have done it in the past long ago on a texture repair for my home.
Trick was to leave no end markings. Roller was barrel shaped.
@cuda hunter (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/cuda-hunter_176) yea for the stamp overlaping previous stamps to align properly.
The destruction testing after leaving the panel in the sun became more difficult.
I had been working in the cold months, and the multiple layers of paint/ texture never got above 60°.
After having it in the sun, then getting back to it later, the remaining coating was hard as a rock. So that product combo would work, and would fill scratches.
But always hoping for better, so I scrubbed that panel down to base plastic again. 3 times stripping it with DA sander and putty knife, and various crevice tools has left it a bit compromised, but I will show the starting point again.
I hoped to get a harder, more heat resistant finish, so now I'm using an epoxy coating that has grit encapsulated in it. It's trial and error to get the grit coverage sprayed tight enough, that when the peaks are sanded off, you have the same valleys as coachman.
So, bare plastic followed by 3rd pic of texture (texture pic came on first)
Fog coat of black, then painted with comparison to factory panel.
Then finally, sanded the peaks down to flattened the tops, then recoated. This process is only epoxy on bare plastic, followed by SEM plastic interior paint. So this should be the most durable replacement coating. But you know I will test it.
Up next, repairing speaker holes.
Well, from the pictures, that looks really good.
That is really impressive how well the finish turns out; not original but still eminently acceptable if you're not going for 100% originality
I have a set of white Metro panels I bought years ago tucked away in storage (for H6XW interior); my car spent enough years in the Las Vegas sunshine that the upper edges of the panels are toast; I don't know if the worst parts have enough non-brittle material left to try what you are doing but it looks like its worth a shot to have nice usable spares.
They do look real close.
Those look fantastic!
Can't wait to see how you patch speaker holes and what material is used to close the hole.
Might have to send you some panels for repair!
As the saying goes, I am all in. My convert panels arrived from Ola, and they were as pictured and described, not better, (darn!).
The only benefit is that the speaker holes are for 4x10, not 6x9 like mine. That means the speaker hole is on a more flat area, mine were cut into the bowl.
Heating and forming PP plastic is tough as it wants to burn when you get to the melty stage. I will actually use my heat gun for this. Normally on a bumper cover, I go straight to the propane torch because it's quick.
I will get my contour gauge to measure the curve, and harvest a repair peice from an old door panel.
Is your car power windows, or are you going to fix that as well ? :popcorn:
Fixing speaker holes makes fixing switch holes look like child's play. Although, I probably won't put the raised boss around the crank hole. The tall window crank collar will hide it once together.
Slightly off topic and I apologize but, once the proper texture is dialed in, could this method be used on dashes? There seems to be so much guesswork involved, in getting a dash properly redone these days, that seems as if it would be a good alternative, That is, assuming the dash isn't too far gone.
@MR Cuda - wow!
Watching along for details. I've got a pair of vert panels that were also speaker holed.
Next holy grail - wood grain inserts for panels. You got a solution?
It's like a shiny new toy to play with.
Cut the first patch part from the top edge of a door.
When heated, the patch wants to potato chip on you.
I learned from doing collision repair, that after heating plastic bumpers, to use a hammer and dolly on them to relax the set in the plastic.
So I heated the patch peice till shiny, (yes, I used my torch. Said I wouldn't), and hammered on the ground till flat. Used my cardboard template to cut out.
Couple of gaps on fitup don't matter, heated a nail to poke a hole and ran screws thru to hold it.
Thanks for the vote of confidence Larry, but it's not done yet.
What about bending and trimming a sedan insert, and if red, a faux finish?
Dabs of mystery glue to hold, then pull the screws out and keep going.
After scrubbing oxidized plastic for longer than I wanted, I prepped, and primed the panel. I haven't finished the left panel, so I will wait till it's done to texture them.
Then, good or bad, they will match each other.
Had a heart attack when I found my texture product was no longer available locally.
I had to buy a case.
I have another pair of white panels to do, and white, so you know they are crumbly.
But I will have product for you adventureist soles who want to attack their's.
So far, looks like no one does.
Silently following along with your progress.
Thank you for posting your journey. I for sure will be referencing it in the future with mine.
Been a while
Finally, 2 in the sun with the original to compare
I am glad to have this massive undertaking done. I wish could have just spent money, but even at $2000, they all have dry rot and chalking. Now when the dog scratches them, I can just repair them.
I would say that your repaired ones look just as good as my re-dyed originals that had good plastic. I might ship you a set of crusty ones!!!
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They do look good.
What brand of texture product did you use that is out of production now?
Wow. Amazing job!
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This is a great thread and I'm truly impressed with the results. I appreciate the discussion about what worked and what didn't but after a while, I had a hard time digesting it.
Any chance someone could condense it into a step by step process for those who want to try this themselves? With details on the products needed and spray equipment with settings?
Hey, I get it, No continuity as I went through many steps to get my end result. I wanted to update my thread to show that its completed. It was almost a year from my last post. I didn't want to leave the thread undone for the few that had interest. Not that I expect many to attempt.
Alot of things didn't work, and I pointed that out.
So....
If you have a hardtop, you will buy new ones. They fit and are nice from what I've heard.
If you want convertible panels, you can get used for big money for plastic on the verge of failure, or buy palco and live with it.
I am a glutton for punishment, so I repaired.
There is no guide for most of the steps since it's just like doing autobody. Lots of sanding, some primer and SEM plastic paint. SEM comes in rattle cans for those who don't have paint equipment.
The texture is from a non skid floor coating.
EZ-Trak (aerosol spray can). A synthetic grit suspended in a 1part epoxy. Good adhesion to plastic.
Durable as you can use it for floors and stairs. I had to buy a case, so I can sell cans, if anyone wants to try.
Perfect! That's what I was looking for.
Question for ya.
I have done pretty much the same process on a few sets now but I power blasted the chalky texture off of the plastics instead of sanding the majority. Cut down the time of sanding.
I have used the SEM paints with the adhesion primer with very good results. The plastic would bend a little and not crack the adhesion primer or the paint.
If the texture is an epoxy does the plastic still have some bend without cracking the SEM final color coat that is on top of the epoxy?
Not that the panels are flexed much after being installed but a good elbow to the rear panel flex's it a good bit. Curious.
Epoxy by nature has some flex qualities. I manhandled these pretty well, and left in the sun to check my speaker patch for expansion in the heat.
The biggest challenge is clean plastic for adhesion.
No solvents should be used on PP for cleaning. And plenty of time between paint operations.
I got all my wood in. The years of being bummed about speaker holes is over.
Not to hijack this thread BUT remember this one from years ago
https://forum.e-bodies.org/interior/6/interior-plastic-restoration-journey/18703/
Quote from: Jay Bee on May 20, 2023, 07:36:50 PM
Not to hijack this thread BUT remember this one from years ago
https://forum.e-bodies.org/interior/6/interior-plastic-restoration-journey/18703/
Read my first sentence on post 1
Mr Cuda - awesome results!
In Post 39 you mention "mystery glue" to bond the patch piece at the former speaker hole. What product did you use?
I searched for EZ-Trak non skid coating and am coming up empty. Link?
Quote from: Mr Cuda on May 20, 2023, 07:57:08 PM
Read my first sentence on post 1
:sorry: , after 4 pages I forgot. Now what did I do yesterday :thinking:
4 pages. I could delete all the posts of stuff I tried, but even those had an acceptable appearance if done on all panels. Most had an appearance similar to kawahondas final results. Maybe edit down to the result, but then you get no sense of the struggle.
Like finding out EZ trac is not available in individual cans, only case lots, after using one of my last cans on the sample panel. So I order a case @$33 each, because it works best.
Polypropylene plastic is hard to bond. Plastic welding really doesn't work, its against the nature of PP and heat.
Duramix bumper "glue" cartridges are $48 on Amazon plus you need the special application gun. I used that product for backer patches on repair areas. PP is so "greasy" that you need adhesion promoter to bond well.
On the patches I used the plastic super glue 2 pack which has the activator swab, and a granulated powder filler, then soaked the joint down with lots of super glue. Do this outside, I used the paint booth, as the fumes will burn your eyes. Then after roughing up the backside, coating the joint with the duramix 4240 as extra. Not sure I needed to as the superglue bonded joint passed the bend test.
Finally, after you have a solid , chalk free panel, epoxy prime it before applying any bondo or putty coat over imperfections. You only need to finish off to 150 grit, the texture will cover.
And time, add time to the cost, and new becomes affordable.
Mr Cuda thanks for documenting your journey including the fails. This should be a sticky somewhere.
I am so glad to have the speaker holes fixed. Now I'm moving on to the super rare Y1 beige interior panels. To make the rears match the front, i will do all 4, and the seat backs.
These have seen alot of sun and have "some" chalking. Only one this spot cracked out.
Y1 ? You got me.
Can you please post a picture of the fender tag. Even if you block out everything else.
I have no code showing y1. I have a Y,Y3,Y4 and Y5 but have never seen a y1.
Please educate me.
I own a 1971 Y5 interior on Y4 exterior.
I had a 1972 Y3 Interior on a Y9 exterior.
Ah your right. Now that you mention it I have a set of Y1's from my 71 a93 XW car.
Forgot all about that!! :bigthumb:
Mr Cuda - those chalky white panels look just like the ones from my vert! Can't wait to see your magic on these and letting us be a fly on the wall watching the progress.
My google foo is failing me as I cannot find a link to your EZ Trac product. Can you post a link?
This thread will be used and great reference for years...