E-Bodies.org Cuda Challenger Forum

Technical Shop => Wheels, Tires, Brakes, Suspension & Steering => Topic started by: 70_440-6Cuda on August 16, 2022, 09:24:46 AM

Title: Rear Leaf Spring Question
Post by: 70_440-6Cuda on August 16, 2022, 09:24:46 AM
I searched on here and Google and again did not find the answers I am looking for, although I am sure this has been asked and answered somewhere -

Looking to replace my rear leaf springs and wondering if there is something out there that is an exact replica, or what are you all doing for your restorations?  I am trying to stick to as true and correct original as I can if there is something available. 
Title: Re: Rear Leaf Spring Question
Post by: blown motor on August 16, 2022, 10:01:55 AM
Find a spring shop that will re-arch your original springs.
Title: Re: Rear Leaf Spring Question
Post by: 70_440-6Cuda on August 16, 2022, 10:22:11 AM
Problem is, I do not think they are the correct springs - at some point the original Dana was swapped for an 8-3/4, and it does not have the heavy duty lower leafs.  I will have to see if I can find some stampings on them anywhere.  That is why I was asking if there is a good factory replacement that is true to original
Title: Re: Rear Leaf Spring Question
Post by: EV2RTSE on August 16, 2022, 10:52:05 AM
These are available from Tony's -

https://www.tonysparts.com/all-parts/3400024-34-1970-1971-E-Body-440-6bbl-Hemi-Lower-Leaf-Springs-p372008385


Title: Re: Rear Leaf Spring Question
Post by: anlauto on August 16, 2022, 11:10:02 AM
You have a lot of weird things removed from your car back in the day....wonder if it's re-tagged ?  :thinking:
Title: Re: Rear Leaf Spring Question
Post by: 70_440-6Cuda on August 16, 2022, 11:45:11 AM
Quote from: anlauto on August 16, 2022, 11:10:02 AM
You have a lot of weird things removed from your car back in the day....wonder if it's re-tagged ?  :thinking:

@anlauto (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/anlauto_19) I was wondering the same thing to be honest but I do not think so.  I am by NO means an expert, but I took the car over to my friends restoration shop (he specializes in metal work and still uses silver solder instead of Bondo) and had him go over the chassis, inner fenders, cowl etc looking for any signs of repair because I thought the same as you and there is not any evidence of any of the body being modified (maybe when I strip it down to paint it will be a different story :dunno:).  There are no rust repairs at all, and all of the spot welds and floor seams all look to be in tact.  I do have the broadcast sheet so that did clear up some of the odditiies like the Gran Coupe style headliner.

The VIN on the radiator support and cowl match - so my question is why the fiberglass front clip?  The only thing I could think is someone was building a drag car...but then why remove the Dana?  The whole car sort of makes no sense, except I was told by the previous owner the car was in need of restoration when he got it in the late '80's, hence the '90's style resto.  My understanding is it was a drag car (dumped the original front clip and the original seats for weight) and when they sold the car kept the Dana.  Previous owner had the car since about 1988 from what I understand.  Last title transfer was in 1991 before I got it.

Thing is, if you were going to go to all that trouble to re-tag it, why build it as it is, that would defeat the purpose?
Title: Re: Rear Leaf Spring Question
Post by: anlauto on August 16, 2022, 11:51:07 AM
Yea, seems odd...but a lot can happen in 52 years :looney:
Title: Re: Rear Leaf Spring Question
Post by: 70_440-6Cuda on August 16, 2022, 11:52:05 AM
Quote from: EV2RTSE on August 16, 2022, 10:52:05 AM
These are available from Tony's -

https://www.tonysparts.com/all-parts/3400024-34-1970-1971-E-Body-440-6bbl-Hemi-Lower-Leaf-Springs-p372008385

Yes, I am aware of those parts, but am in need of the 440-6 or Hemi replacement leaf springs - I have seen the best option is to have them made by Eaton, is this still the best option to get as close as possible to original?

https://forum.e-bodies.org/cuda-and-challenger-general-discussion-roseville-moparts/2/1970-extra-heavy-duty-rear-leaf-springs-3400024-rh-and-3400034-lh/13918/msg188030#msg188030
Title: Re: Rear Leaf Spring Question
Post by: MoparLeo on August 16, 2022, 11:59:33 AM
Is anything original on this car?
Title: Re: Rear Leaf Spring Question
Post by: johnr on August 16, 2022, 01:59:07 PM
    The rear springs on the car that I am doing had a similar problem of the wrong springs came out of the car (a serious lack of leafs). I am not doing a period correct restoration, but I chose leaf springs from Classic Industries to get the 6 leaf spring that should have been there. $538.99 and MR3129. Might be worth looking into.
Title: Re: Rear Leaf Spring Question
Post by: 70_440-6Cuda on August 16, 2022, 02:32:58 PM
Quote from: MoparLeo on August 16, 2022, 11:59:33 AM
Is anything original on this car?

engine, trans and original sheet metal for the most part - my plan is to restore it correctly if I am going to do it, so just trying to educate myself on best practices and most accurate parts if I can't find original - thanks
Title: Re: Rear Leaf Spring Question
Post by: Skdmark on August 16, 2022, 07:11:07 PM
1. Hunt down an OEM set and have them rebuilt/rearched
2. Get a set from Eaton Detroit and swap in Tony's lower leafs with the part numbers. Maybe ask if they could swap them in fr you when they build them.
Title: Re: Rear Leaf Spring Question
Post by: 70_440-6Cuda on August 16, 2022, 09:36:55 PM
Thanks all
Title: Re: Rear Leaf Spring Question
Post by: 70_440-6Cuda on October 06, 2022, 11:08:05 AM
I am still trying to hunt down a set of original 440-6 / Hemi rear leaf springs, but no luck yet.  If anyone has a line on a set PM me.

I am going to order a set from Eaton next week, anyone have any experience with these and know how close to original they are?  I am going to add Tony's lower leafs.

Eaton springs says they are 6 leafs on each side is that correct?  And then add Tonys 1/2 leafs?  Thanks   Working with a '70 440-6 Cuda
Title: Re: Rear Leaf Spring Question
Post by: Banana on October 06, 2022, 01:29:13 PM
Since there is a leaf spring thread............for 1970 e-body built around April, was black finish on the springs, or was there a switch to natural during 70, or 71,  model year?

Were they assembled natural, then the assemblies sprayed black? or leaves sprayed, then assembled?

Any threads on fully restoring a spring set?

Mine getting rusty and was going to do a refresh.

Thanks

Title: Re: Rear Leaf Spring Question
Post by: tparker on October 06, 2022, 03:50:25 PM
Quote from: 70_440-6Cuda on August 16, 2022, 09:24:46 AM
I searched on here and Google and again did not find the answers I am looking for, although I am sure this has been asked and answered somewhere -

Looking to replace my rear leaf springs and wondering if there is something out there that is an exact replica, or what are you all doing for your restorations?  I am trying to stick to as true and correct original as I can if there is something available.

This reminds me of  the following quote: "The best model of a cat is a cat"-Norbert Wiener. Sorry, I am a computer guy and deal with models.  An exact replica would be the actual thing. You would be looking for new old stock parts. Do you want original equipment? Do you want something that meets the original specs? New manufactured product usually isn't the "exact" same as the original parts. And what do you mean "exact"? Some people go crazy with this and add chalk marks and overspay and stuff like that. Personally, if it isn't original on your car, it isn't original, even if it is NOS or of another car. I chopped off my arm and they reattached a new arm from someone born the same year in the same hospital, it still wouldn't be MY arm. LOL. OK, that analogy doesn't make sense. I appreciate a car that is 99% original. That is an amazing thing. I am less thrilled with cars appearing to be 100% original. And I worry that as we get older, a lot of these restored cars will be passed on to others as 100% original when they really arn't. Sorry, off topic.

As others mentioned, I would see about getting them heat treated. I didn't know that was a thing until I got on this forum.
Title: Re: Rear Leaf Spring Question
Post by: HP2 on October 09, 2022, 07:56:29 AM
I don't fault anyone for wanted to make their car as "original" as possible. Even if that original involves reproduction parts. If you are well heeled enough to actually buy NOS parts, well, then more power to you.

In any case, yes there are reproduction "original" spec spring packs out there. If that's what you want, great, buy them. Espo and Eaton can both make these to original spec. Just be aware that using reproduction parts of original specification will return a car to its original performance level, which may be short of what many of our recollections and memories of what these cars were.
Title: Re: Rear Leaf Spring Question
Post by: Skdmark on October 09, 2022, 03:45:08 PM
I replaced the springs on my Barracuda recently with a set from Eaton. I had Eaton give them a +1 inch of arch over the factory spec. It gives the slightly raked stance I wanted and when you put either a few things in the trunk or have backseat passengers the car sits level with a load. Too many e-bodies suffer from butt drag.
Title: Re: Rear Leaf Spring Question
Post by: 70_440-6Cuda on October 10, 2022, 10:07:44 AM
Quote from: tparker on October 06, 2022, 03:50:25 PM
Quote from: 70_440-6Cuda on August 16, 2022, 09:24:46 AM
I searched on here and Google and again did not find the answers I am looking for, although I am sure this has been asked and answered somewhere -

Looking to replace my rear leaf springs and wondering if there is something out there that is an exact replica, or what are you all doing for your restorations?  I am trying to stick to as true and correct original as I can if there is something available.

This reminds me of  the following quote: "The best model of a cat is a cat"-Norbert Wiener. Sorry, I am a computer guy and deal with models.  An exact replica would be the actual thing. You would be looking for new old stock parts. Do you want original equipment? Do you want something that meets the original specs? New manufactured product usually isn't the "exact" same as the original parts. And what do you mean "exact"? Some people go crazy with this and add chalk marks and overspay and stuff like that. Personally, if it isn't original on your car, it isn't original, even if it is NOS or of another car. I chopped off my arm and they reattached a new arm from someone born the same year in the same hospital, it still wouldn't be MY arm. LOL. OK, that analogy doesn't make sense. I appreciate a car that is 99% original. That is an amazing thing. I am less thrilled with cars appearing to be 100% original. And I worry that as we get older, a lot of these restored cars will be passed on to others as 100% original when they really arn't. Sorry, off topic.

As others mentioned, I would see about getting them heat treated. I didn't know that was a thing until I got on this forum.

I have often thought about the element of time and cars being passed off for something they are not.  I am documenting everything for my car as I go, and my son wants to create a YouTube channel for the restoration so we will be very clear about what the car was and is.  I am starting to worry less about original Moparts because of the costs and the time it takes to hunt down what you need.  In the end, I would like the car to be as close as possible to how it came off the assembly line, and I have found that the best fitting, best quality parts are restored originals.  Restoring it to what it should be is part of the fun even if the parts are not native to the car. There are lots of opinions about the "right" way to restore these cars - for my son and I the fun of the hobby has been looking for those elusive original parts and creating a plan to work on the car and  make it what we want - a tribute to what Plymouth originally built, as best as we can.  It is all just for fun so I try not to get hung up on what other people will think of the car, and find this forum is the best place for insight and knowledge on what parts work, what don't and what to look out for so as not to overpay for something incorrect.  I don't mind aftermarket, IF the parts are correct AND good quality which seems to be sort of hit and miss.
Title: Re: Rear Leaf Spring Question
Post by: 70_440-6Cuda on January 25, 2023, 02:23:24 PM
Quote from: Skdmark on October 09, 2022, 03:45:08 PM
I replaced the springs on my Barracuda recently with a set from Eaton. I had Eaton give them a +1 inch of arch over the factory spec. It gives the slightly raked stance I wanted and when you put either a few things in the trunk or have backseat passengers the car sits level with a load. Too many e-bodies suffer from butt drag.

@Skdmark (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/skdmark_284) I am thinking of ordering the Eaton springs with +1" as well, do you have a side shot of yours to see the stance?  Still happy with the 1" over height?  Did they settle at all?

Thanks
Title: Re: Rear Leaf Spring Question
Post by: Skdmark on January 25, 2023, 06:55:20 PM
@70_440-6Cuda (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/70440-6cuda_14951)

I'm still happy with the height. They've been on since 2021 and the height is still the same.
Eventually I'm going to lower the front about 3/8" after a torsion bar swap. Right now the front is about 5/8-3/4 lower.

See post 63 for side images.
https://forum.e-bodies.org/your-restoration-project-roseville-moparts/10/71-barracuda-ev2-h5xv/17032/63
Title: Re: Rear Leaf Spring Question
Post by: 70_440-6Cuda on January 25, 2023, 08:01:42 PM
Quote from: Skdmark on January 25, 2023, 06:55:20 PM
@70_440-6Cuda (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/70440-6cuda_14951)

I'm still happy with the height. They've been on since 2021 and the height is still the same.
Eventually I'm going to lower the front about 3/8" after a torsion bar swap. Right now the front is about 5/8-3/4 lower.

See post 63 for side images.
https://forum.e-bodies.org/your-restoration-project-roseville-moparts/10/71-barracuda-ev2-h5xv/17032/63

@Skdmark (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/skdmark_284) looks awesome... I actually dig the side pipes, reminds of all the Revell models I built as a kid!  I will go back and read the whole thread - super cool car.... what size wheels and tires on there?
Title: Re: Rear Leaf Spring Question
Post by: Skdmark on January 26, 2023, 05:25:46 AM
Side pipes and wheels were on the car when I bought it. Last year I removed the pipes.
Long tube headers + no mufflers are not the best for cruising.

The wheels are American Racing Torq Thrust M.
Front tires are 215/50ZR17 and rear are 245/45ZR17
Title: Re: Rear Leaf Spring Question
Post by: 70_440-6Cuda on January 26, 2023, 04:21:17 PM
I have decided on a set of rear springs from Eaton Detroit with Tony's half leaf reproductions.  Just trying to decide on stock or 1" over ride height.  My initial thought is stock with an adjustable front perch so I can always switch back to stock if I want to.

Couple of questions - has anyone installed the Eaton springs with the stock specs and had any sagging issues over time?  I have read some other threads stating the stock height springs sag rather quickly, but not sure if that is related to the brands or the actual specs of the springs? 

@Skdmark (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/skdmark_284) says his +1" springs have not sagged at all, but is that because Eaton makes a great product or the +1" springs are heavier duty?