E-Bodies.org Cuda Challenger Forum

Classifieds => E-Body stuff found on Ebay, Craigslist or anywhere else => Topic started by: JH27N0B on December 18, 2022, 05:03:40 PM

Title: Caution-Mecum hemi Challenger JS23R1B266605
Post by: JH27N0B on December 18, 2022, 05:03:40 PM
This car was just on BAT and got flamed for allegedly being a rebody.
Do your homework before bidding on this next month in Kissimmee!  :looney:
https://www.mecum.com/lots/FL0123-545937/1971-dodge-hemi-challenger-rt/
The BAT listing-
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1971-dodge-challenger-19/?utm_source=dm&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=2022-12-12
Title: Re: Caution-Mecum hemi Challenger JS23V1B266605
Post by: anlauto on December 18, 2022, 05:21:22 PM
Your tittle says "V" FYI  :D
Title: Re: Caution-Mecum hemi Challenger JS23V1B266605
Post by: scf100 on December 18, 2022, 05:23:48 PM
Seller will wish he took the 93k on BAT next month
Title: Re: Caution-Mecum hemi Challenger JS23R1B266605
Post by: JH27N0B on December 18, 2022, 05:31:41 PM
Quote from: anlauto on December 18, 2022, 05:21:22 PM
Your tittle says "V" FYI  :D
Fixed, thanks!  My no skeletons in the closet V code 71 has infused JS23V1B in my worn out old cranium!
Title: Re: Caution-Mecum hemi Challenger JS23R1B266605
Post by: torredcuda on December 19, 2022, 06:13:07 AM
Says "partial rebody" not complete rebody, exactly what that means I don`t know. Restoration pics would help if there are any but pretty much any car that was rusty or wrecked could fall under partial rebody.

Since the seller doesn't know the history of the car, I'll post this public info from Barrett Jackson 2010 no reserve sale so everyone can be informed about the car he is supposed to have owned since 2005-

Lot #662 – Built on 01/12/1971, period correct but not original 426/425hp HEMI, 727 automatic, Hamtrack MI, Sassy Green, black bucket seats, vinyl roof, Super Track Pak, max cool, Rally instrument cluster, woodgrain console, hood tie down pins, dual exhaust, Shaker hood and AM/FM radio. No-expense-spared restoration making it one of the finest in the country. 1971 was the last production year of the HEMI E-Bodies. It is 1 of the 12 original Hemi Challenger R/T automatics built in 1971 out of a total production of 70 cars. This car was partially re-bodied to some degree using the original VIN tag with the correct "R1B" VIN Code, as well as a Matching VIN stamped on the cowl and radiator core support.
Title: Re: Caution-Mecum hemi Challenger JS23R1B266605
Post by: anlauto on December 19, 2022, 06:38:11 AM
I wouldn't worry as much about a "partial rebody" as I would fake documentation.  :thumbdown:

It makes no mention of documentation, but if the car had it's original tags and BCS, that would be enough for me. I think it will find a buyer, maybe not for top dollar, but there's an ass for every seat.
Title: Re: Caution-Mecum hemi Challenger JS23R1B266605
Post by: torredcuda on December 19, 2022, 07:28:52 AM
No mention of BCS but says copy of window sticker.
Title: Re: Caution-Mecum hemi Challenger JS23R1B266605
Post by: 6bblgt on December 19, 2022, 08:22:16 AM
this is NOT an authentic window sticker
Title: Re: Caution-Mecum hemi Challenger JS23R1B266605
Post by: RUNCHARGER on December 19, 2022, 08:43:18 AM
Nope: It sure isn't. Even I seen one glaring error in about 2 seconds. As Alan says the car would make a great driver and sheetmetal repairs are to be expected on most of these cars, however I would be concerned if that VIN ever came out of the factory without more documentation.
Title: Re: Caution-Mecum hemi Challenger JS23R1B266605
Post by: ec_co on December 19, 2022, 09:00:24 AM
some sheet metal repair is normal. this one by the sounds and look of it was a complete re-body - took a '70 and slapped the '71 VIN tag, cowl and rad #s on it. if that's the case, this is far beyond 'a few panels repaired' and gets into sketchy territory IMO (sketchy to be called a real '71 Hemi car). the e-brake cabling is 100% '70, not '71 .... this is not a big thing to change over that they didn't bother doing, indicating a full VIN swap onto a solid car is a strong possibility
Title: Re: Caution-Mecum hemi Challenger JS23R1B266605
Post by: torredcuda on December 19, 2022, 09:09:56 AM
I figured the window sticker could be a fake. Yes, it sounds like the main unibody is a `70 from the parking brake set up so who knows what they mean by "partial" but it was a poor attempt at making it correct.
Title: Re: Caution-Mecum hemi Challenger JS23R1B266605
Post by: RUNCHARGER on December 19, 2022, 09:52:06 AM
I agree: That's the way it sounds alright. If it had a rear clip installed it's one thing but welding the cowl and rad #'s into a shell is another.
Title: Re: Caution-Mecum hemi Challenger JS23R1B266605
Post by: anlauto on December 19, 2022, 09:55:46 AM
Whoever did the repairs(rebody) didn't take note of the 1970 unique things like two trunk torsion bars vs one in 1971, 70 only inner aprons,   etc...etc...
Title: Re: Caution-Mecum hemi Challenger JS23R1B266605
Post by: RUNCHARGER on December 19, 2022, 10:19:49 AM
Yeah: I read the inner fenders are 70 as well, I didn't bother to look. I think it's pretty obvious.
In cases like this I always wonder if another one with the same VIN will show up with the matching #'s engine and trans and repro VIN tag along with a title from a different state. It would be cool to see the two side by side.... Well unless you "owned" one of then I guess.
Wa. isn't a rusty state so I'm sure it is an interesting story on what happened.
Title: Re: Caution-Mecum hemi Challenger JS23R1B266605
Post by: mike ketterer on December 19, 2022, 12:17:46 PM
since its going through MECUM has Dave Wise done his inspection on this one. curious on his take on it
Title: Re: Caution-Mecum hemi Challenger JS23R1B266605
Post by: MoparCarGuy on December 19, 2022, 08:18:09 PM
Quote from: 6bblgt on December 19, 2022, 08:22:16 AM
this is NOT an authentic window sticker
And the pictured reproduction fender tag does not match the reproduction window sticker.
Repro window sticker shows A33 - Track Pak and R11 - AM Radio.
Repro Fender tag shows A34 - Super Track Pak and R36 - AM/FM Radio.
What appears to be the original window sticker (center of picture) has A34 but has R35 versus R36. A lot of inconsistencies.
Title: Re: Caution-Mecum hemi Challenger JS23R1B266605
Post by: 6bblgt on December 19, 2022, 08:25:23 PM
R36 is stereo AM/FM with cassette player &   :thinking:  isn't '71 AM/FM a thumbwheel?
Title: Re: Caution-Mecum hemi Challenger JS23R1B266605
Post by: MoparCarGuy on December 19, 2022, 08:44:47 PM
Quote from: 6bblgt on December 19, 2022, 08:25:23 PM
R36 is stereo AM/FM with cassette player &   :thinking:  isn't '71 AM/FM a thumbwheel?
All 1970-1971 E body AM/FM radios are thumbwheel and most 1971 AM/FM radios use use chrome buttons. Source: Ward's Classic Car Radio Repair (pdf attached)
Some will have black buttons. This car has a 1972-1974 R35 - AM/FM radio installed with black buttons.
EDIT: Corrected for buttons. Need info on when the 1971 may have changed to knobs for AM/FM radios in an E-body.

Title: Re: Caution-Mecum hemi Challenger JS23R1B266605
Post by: blown motor on December 20, 2022, 05:57:51 AM
All 70/71 am/fm radios are not thumbwheel.
Title: Re: Caution-Mecum hemi Challenger JS23R1B266605
Post by: mccannix on December 20, 2022, 06:21:06 AM
All thumbwheel 70-71 AM/FM E-body radios have chrome buttons, both Motorola and Phillips
I have never seen or heard of a thumbwheel E body AM/FM with black buttons.
The later roll knob AM/FM E-bodies had black buttons.
Some roll knob AM/FM's have reportedly shown up in late built 71 E-bodies
Title: Re: Caution-Mecum hemi Challenger JS23R1B266605
Post by: MoparCarGuy on December 20, 2022, 02:17:31 PM
Quote from: blown motor on December 20, 2022, 05:57:51 AM
All 70/71 am/fm radios are not thumbwheel.
The source for only thumbwheel AM/FM in 70-71 was Ward's Classic Car Radio's E-Body Radio ID page (pdf attached). Maybe Ward's is wrong?
Do you have info on when the thumbwheel went away during the 1971 model year?
Title: Re: Caution-Mecum hemi Challenger JS23R1B266605
Post by: MoparCarGuy on December 20, 2022, 02:21:52 PM
Quote from: mccannix on December 20, 2022, 06:21:06 AM
All thumbwheel 70-71 AM/FM E-body radios have chrome buttons, both Motorola and Phillips
I have never seen or heard of a thumbwheel E body AM/FM with black buttons.
The later roll knob AM/FM E-bodies had black buttons.
Some roll knob AM/FM's have reportedly shown up in late built 71 E-bodies
I corrected the earlier post for chrome buttons only in 1970 & 1971 for thumbwheel AM/FM radios.
Do you think the 1971 knob AM/FM radios came with chrome buttons like this picture?
Title: Re: Caution-Mecum hemi Challenger JS23R1B266605
Post by: mccannix on December 20, 2022, 08:15:30 PM
Quote from: MoparCarGuy on December 20, 2022, 02:21:52 PM
Quote from: mccannix on December 20, 2022, 06:21:06 AM
All thumbwheel 70-71 AM/FM E-body radios have chrome buttons, both Motorola and Phillips
I have never seen or heard of a thumbwheel E body AM/FM with black buttons.
The later roll knob AM/FM E-bodies had black buttons
Some roll knob AM/FM's have reportedly shown up in late built 71 E-bodies
I corrected the earlier post for chrome buttons only in 1970 & 1971 for thumbwheel AM/FM radios.
Do you think the 1971 knob AM/FM radios came with chrome buttons like this picture?
The roll knob units that I have seen and am familiar with all had black buttons, BUT I have not seen them all,
so some may have had chrome buttons like yours pictured, or an owner who liked bling possibly changed them.
Parts book only lists one part number for an E-body AM/FM roll knob adio
I cannot help with a time frame on when rollwheel replaced thumbwheel
Title: Re: Caution-Mecum hemi Challenger JS23R1B266605
Post by: blown motor on December 21, 2022, 05:54:58 AM
I bought a reproduction roll knob radio from Antique Automobile Radio. They listed a 70-71 radio which had chrome buttons and a 72-74 radio that had black buttons. I have to assume, since these people are selling repos for a multitude of vehicles, that they have a detail like that correct. My guess, and it's only a guess, is that the roll knob radio was standard and the thumb wheel was an option. Maybe someone familiar with VIN tag codes could confirm or deny that point.
Title: Re: Caution-Mecum hemi Challenger JS23R1B266605
Post by: MoparCarGuy on December 21, 2022, 07:12:38 AM
Quote from: blown motor on December 21, 2022, 05:54:58 AM
I bought a reproduction roll knob radio from Antique Automobile Radio. They listed a 70-71 radio which had chrome buttons and a 72-74 radio that had black buttons. I have to assume, since these people are selling repos for a multitude of vehicles, that they have a detail like that correct. My guess, and it's only a guess, is that the roll knob radio was standard and the thumb wheel was an option. Maybe someone familiar with VIN tag codes could confirm or deny that point.
I am absolutely sure that the repro roll knob radios are not correct for 1970 AM/FM in an E-Body.
Title: Re: Caution-Mecum hemi Challenger JS23R1B266605
Post by: MoparCarGuy on December 21, 2022, 08:17:27 PM
Quote from: blown motor on December 21, 2022, 05:54:58 AM
Maybe someone familiar with VIN tag codes could confirm or deny that point.
This thread has all of the option codes including the radio and speaker options. Very detailed but does not differentiate between thumbwheel and roll knobs or chrome versus black buttons.
https://forum.e-bodies.org/reference-material/18/radio-options-r11-r22-r26-r31-r32-r33-r35-r36/348/msg8113#msg8113 (https://forum.e-bodies.org/reference-material/18/radio-options-r11-r22-r26-r31-r32-r33-r35-r36/348/msg8113#msg8113)

And this thread covers E-Body radio identification from Ward's Classic Car Radio Repair.
https://forum.e-bodies.org/reference-material/18/how-to-identify-e-body-radios/527/;topicseen (https://forum.e-bodies.org/reference-material/18/how-to-identify-e-body-radios/527/;topicseen)