Is it just me or does this drawing look like a Wile E. Coyote scheme? :looney:
Seriously though, how is stashing oil/gas byproducts (that are bad for the environment) under the ocean a good thing? Any scientists here?
My mind just exploded. :unbelievable:
This is a new one on me.
Another "feel good" program for the Global "whining" crowd. Put the CO2 where the gas/oil came from.
Plants need CO2, just feed them. Nature is much more powerful than man thinks he is.
Another big war is needed to cull the population down. This will put less strain on the resources. China should be first.
In many ways, the consumption/burning/using/oxidation of fossil fuels takes carbon that was effectively (hidden deep underground and) removed from the environment, and reintroduces it back into the environment again. If we could remove this excess carbon, and hide it away somewhere, we could in effect reverse the damage we've done. Hiding it underground doesn't seem like a long stretch of the imagination.
There are many forms of carbon capture. In terms of CO2 in nature, plants absorb them as mentioned in previous post. Man can freeze CO2 to solid and drop them down in the deepest part of the ocean where the tremendous pressure will keep the solid from boiling. CO2 is also use in many manufacturing process.
The article I was reading that had this drawing was pretty extensive, and discussed injecting Co2 back into dormant oil wells as well as deep into the ocean. It did say there are concerns with both and that carbon capture models have not yet been proven. Plus it costs and creates more Co2 to transport captured Co2 then push it back underground/underwater.
I am all for pursuing technologies like this, as long as they open & honest about costs, results, concerns, etc. Lately we seem to be hurtling into unknown territory without realistic expectations and full disclosure.
But really, I did immediately think of Wile E. Coyote when I saw this :dunno:
C`mon, all we need is a big sun shield to save us from certain death. :rofl:
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/a-sun-shield-over-earth-catch-an-asteroid-and-it-might-work/#:~:text=The%20idea%20is%20simple%20in,and%20help%20cool%20the%20planet.
Of course if you believe NASA it is a volcanic eruption not man made climate change that has caused the recent heat waves -
https://timcast.com/news/nasa-data-show-volcanic-eruption-not-man-made-climate-change-likely-cause-of-record-heat-wave/?fbclid=IwAR0RH_xsCQPMO512zSzee0KKe08oMSTwF_uPS8604D07DuWlI1Tmh9ZVGzk
If you think man has turned around the climate of a 5 billion year old climate in 150 years, well.....
First we were going to freeze ( 30 years agos climate guess) now we are going to cook. I wonder what the next generation of guessers will come up with.
Endless cycles just like politics. If it makes you feel good to get on one of these climate rides, go for it, just don't tell us about it. Just like your religion or sexual prefernces, Keep it at home.
I'm no expert but I don't think putting co2 in the ground will change a whole lot of anything except where the money flows.
Here is the thing as i see it.
Two ways environmental global warming can be.
1) Our Scientists are full of shit!! Burning fossil fuels by us humans is nothing compared to the all of the other sources of CO2 and Methane that has been happening for hundreds of years. Heck i read an article that says chicken shit puts out way more methane into the atmosphere than anything we humans do. Therefore we are such a small entity that it does not matter what we do. Therefore worrying about it is ridiculous and switching to EV vehicles and going green is a total waste of our time and money. Bah humbug. However, all of the things we do to try and avoid burning fossil fuels doesn't hurt anything except a slight dent in our wallet.
2) Or oh no...their right !! By ignoring this problem we thats right we are condemning our grandchildren to be living in an environment that is horrible and WE DID IT. How selfish can we be ????????? We have satellites that can take pictures of the environment...and they have been taking those pictures before the pandemic, during the pandemic, and after the pandemic. The difference in those pictures of the Los Angelos and other high population areas are astounding. Why, because during the pandemic so much was shut down and the amount of driving so much less that you can see the difference. This alone shows that we are a much greater problem than the naysaysers think. Polar Ice caps are melting at a much higher rate in this century than before. WE CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE AND IT IS OUR RESPONABILITY DO MAKE A DIFFERENCE. In other words its simple, if the scientists are wrong...then we are wasting some money by attempting to reverse this trend...so WHAT !!!! But, if their right and we don't do something, it will be too late before we have PROOF that everyone believes.
That being said, Im all for solar power, wind power, nuclear etc instead of burning coal AND OIL that pollutes, and Electric Vehicles instead of gasoline powered cars. I believe that the price of EV will come down to that of traditional vehicles. Ive driven them...their wonderful in their performance, and quiet smoothness... I JUST WISH THEIR WERENT SO f'''N UGLY... GOD HAS ELON MUSK ACTUALLY LOOKED AT THOSE RIDICULOUS DESIGNS?? MOST OF THEM HAVE STARK UGLY INTERIORS AS WELL. AND WHO GIVES A SHIT ABOUT AUTONOMOUS DRIVING CAPABILITES. I DONT...I LOVE DRIVING MY CARS !!
Motor Trend magazine named the Ford 150 lightning the truck of the year and it is a NORMAL truck in its styling and PRICED actually cheaper than its gasoline or diesel counterpart. WOW... now that is how to build an EV... Make it the same as the vehicles we love but just powered by battery !!
No doubt most scientists mean well. Consider how much scientists knew only 100 years ago compared to who much they know right now. Then consider what they might discover in the next 50 years. I'm pretty confident they'll discover a lot of things that will help mankind in the next 50 years. As far as I'm concerned current battery production sacrifices aren't worth it today. A better solution will be discovered. Generally follow the $$$ because that is what rules the world.
Right now though the melting of earth's ice is very concerning. It would be nice if the extreme wealthy would put away their greed for a few minutes and be concerned about it rather than controlling us "work ants" and filling their already overflowing pockets.
Maybe "most" are well meaning but there is clearly a lot out there that aren't, and that is the problem. Same goes for acidemias, politicians, etc. And unfortunately it seems now days those that don't mean well are the loudest and certainly get the attention of the press.
Related to my original post topic, these articles are out there proposing all kinds of solutions that are still hypothetical as if they were real and ready to go. They get activists hyped up and then anyone with a contrary opinion gets cancelled!
There are so many unknowns out there related to power grids, battery material availability, etc. that it is scary when we see ever increasing regulations on autos, power plants, appliances, and more.
OK sorry, I really wasn't planning to go here (hopefully I don't get cancelled). Was just trying to be funny with a Wile E. Coyote reference (:
Quote from: chargerdon on August 13, 2023, 05:00:31 AM
Here is the thing as i see it.
Two ways environmental global warming can be.
1) Our Scientists are full of shit!! Burning fossil fuels by us humans is nothing compared to the all of the other sources of CO2 and Methane that has been happening for hundreds of years. Heck i read an article that says chicken shit puts out way more methane into the atmosphere than anything we humans do. Therefore we are such a small entity that it does not matter what we do. Therefore worrying about it is ridiculous and switching to EV vehicles and going green is a total waste of our time and money. Bah humbug. However, all of the things we do to try and avoid burning fossil fuels doesn't hurt anything except a slight dent in our wallet.
2) Or oh no...their right !! By ignoring this problem we thats right we are condemning our grandchildren to be living in an environment that is horrible and WE DID IT. How selfish can we be ????????? We have satellites that can take pictures of the environment...and they have been taking those pictures before the pandemic, during the pandemic, and after the pandemic. The difference in those pictures of the Los Angelos and other high population areas are astounding. Why, because during the pandemic so much was shut down and the amount of driving so much less that you can see the difference. This alone shows that we are a much greater problem than the naysaysers think. Polar Ice caps are melting at a much higher rate in this century than before. WE CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE AND IT IS OUR RESPONABILITY DO MAKE A DIFFERENCE. In other words its simple, if the scientists are wrong...then we are wasting some money by attempting to reverse this trend...so WHAT !!!! But, if their right and we don't do something, it will be too late before we have PROOF that everyone believes.
That being said, Im all for solar power, wind power, nuclear etc instead of burning coal AND OIL that pollutes, and Electric Vehicles instead of gasoline powered cars. I believe that the price of EV will come down to that of traditional vehicles. Ive driven them...their wonderful in their performance, and quiet smoothness... I JUST WISH THEIR WERENT SO f'''N UGLY... GOD HAS ELON MUSK ACTUALLY LOOKED AT THOSE RIDICULOUS DESIGNS?? MOST OF THEM HAVE STARK UGLY INTERIORS AS WELL. AND WHO GIVES A SHIT ABOUT AUTONOMOUS DRIVING CAPABILITES. I DONT...I LOVE DRIVING MY CARS !!
Motor Trend magazine named the Ford 150 lightning the truck of the year and it is a NORMAL truck in its styling and PRICED actually cheaper than its gasoline or diesel counterpart. WOW... now that is how to build an EV... Make it the same as the vehicles we love but just powered by battery !!
I don`t think there is any doubt us humans have polluted our enviroment in many different ways and I care about it and try to do my part to reduce, recycle etc. That said I just don`t agree that EVs are the solution - lithium battery mining and production along with using the grid that is already over-taxed and still uses fossil fuels to produce electricity and are NOT solutions, not to mention they are not easy to recycle. Ford truck EV, sure it may look OK and even price right but can it pull my loaded 24' trailer to Carlisle and back with only a few 10 minute "fuel" stops? Solar and wind power have also so far been proven to be very inefficient and not a viable replacement for electric power, if we are going to spend trillions, cost everyone money and hurt the economy let`s at least come up with something better that actually works!
Quote from: torredcuda on August 14, 2023, 03:59:08 AM
Quote from: chargerdon on August 13, 2023, 05:00:31 AM
Here is the thing as i see it.
Two ways environmental global warming can be.
1) Our Scientists are full of shit!! Burning fossil fuels by us humans is nothing compared to the all of the other sources of CO2 and Methane that has been happening for hundreds of years. Heck i read an article that says chicken shit puts out way more methane into the atmosphere than anything we humans do. Therefore we are such a small entity that it does not matter what we do. Therefore worrying about it is ridiculous and switching to EV vehicles and going green is a total waste of our time and money. Bah humbug. However, all of the things we do to try and avoid burning fossil fuels doesn't hurt anything except a slight dent in our wallet.
2) Or oh no...their right !! By ignoring this problem we thats right we are condemning our grandchildren to be living in an environment that is horrible and WE DID IT. How selfish can we be ????????? We have satellites that can take pictures of the environment...and they have been taking those pictures before the pandemic, during the pandemic, and after the pandemic. The difference in those pictures of the Los Angelos and other high population areas are astounding. Why, because during the pandemic so much was shut down and the amount of driving so much less that you can see the difference. This alone shows that we are a much greater problem than the naysaysers think. Polar Ice caps are melting at a much higher rate in this century than before. WE CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE AND IT IS OUR RESPONABILITY DO MAKE A DIFFERENCE. In other words its simple, if the scientists are wrong...then we are wasting some money by attempting to reverse this trend...so WHAT !!!! But, if their right and we don't do something, it will be too late before we have PROOF that everyone believes.
That being said, Im all for solar power, wind power, nuclear etc instead of burning coal AND OIL that pollutes, and Electric Vehicles instead of gasoline powered cars. I believe that the price of EV will come down to that of traditional vehicles. Ive driven them...their wonderful in their performance, and quiet smoothness... I JUST WISH THEIR WERENT SO f'''N UGLY... GOD HAS ELON MUSK ACTUALLY LOOKED AT THOSE RIDICULOUS DESIGNS?? MOST OF THEM HAVE STARK UGLY INTERIORS AS WELL. AND WHO GIVES A SHIT ABOUT AUTONOMOUS DRIVING CAPABILITES. I DONT...I LOVE DRIVING MY CARS !!
Motor Trend magazine named the Ford 150 lightning the truck of the year and it is a NORMAL truck in its styling and PRICED actually cheaper than its gasoline or diesel counterpart. WOW... now that is how to build an EV... Make it the same as the vehicles we love but just powered by battery !!
I don`t think there is any doubt us humans have polluted our enviroment in many different ways and I care about it and try to do my part to reduce, recycle etc. That said I just don`t agree that EVs are the solution - lithium battery mining and production along with using the grid that is already over-taxed and still uses fossil fuels to produce electricity and are NOT solutions, not to mention they are not easy to recycle. Ford truck EV, sure it may look OK and even price right but can it pull my loaded 24' trailer to Carlisle and back with only a few 10 minute "fuel" stops? Solar and wind power have also so far been proven to be very inefficient and not a viable replacement for electric power, if we are going to spend trillions, cost everyone money and hurt the economy let`s at least come up with something better that actually works!
Well...I think you better hope that your wrong about BEV because every major mfg of automobiles is planning on being all electric by 2030-2035 time frame. Improvements in Batteries has come a long way in the last 5 years, and there is no end in site for its improvement.
Regarding the grid and how it generates electricity... I found this : https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/electricity/electricity-in-the-us.php great article...is shows that the largest source of power is natural gas and we have an abundance of it. Great article and great graphs show how use of coal and petroleum is declining rapidly.
So far as the Grid is concerned... I am confident that the Corporations that handle the grid will see the opportunity to make money and build the grid as it is needed. Maybe i am just lucky...i Live in Raleigh, NC and my power company Duke energy has a nuclear power plant within 20 miles of me that provides all of my electricity...i have never experienced a "brown out" or rolling black outs. Also, the cost of electricity in NC is less than in many states... Here in Raleigh the first 1,000 KW costs 0.17 while the national average is 0.23. Interesting fact however is that the second 1,000 KW especially at night the cost to the consumer drops to 0.10 per KW. It is believed that the bulk of the charging will occur at night...
We've got tons of natural gas as well. So why not just power cars and trucks with LNG then. Some are now but it's not being pushed. WTF would a govt. think it's better to generate electricity with natural gas rather than just go directly into cars and trucks and to a home generator? None of this makes sense and I've learned not to trust anything govt. tells us is the "right thing".
Quote from: RUNCHARGER on August 14, 2023, 07:09:58 AM
None of this makes sense and I've learned not to trust anything govt. tells us is the "right thing".
Agreed! Not many positive things the government does well. Like always follow the money which almost always leads to corruption. Remember when the government told us we all had to switch to those swirly light bulbs and couldn't buy the old style? You know the ones that caught fire. Or the latest fiasco is the covid response and excess deaths we are now experiencing. Every time without exception you can count on the politicians lining their pockets when they force a "great idea" on us.
Fear is the tactic they use to control, same old story over and over again. Effective on those that can't think critically. Power( control) and money, same old cycles repeating!
Let me know when " politicians and millionaires are selling their waterfront properties, you know like Martha's Vineyard and Florida for example. Or when they ban personal/private aircraft and yachts, and cruise ships, I could go on and on. The hypocrisy is rank!
How many politicians and wealth people have gotten filthy rich off this current fear mongering?
As I see it "climate change" is a real natural thing. It has always been and will always be. If you live near an ocean, expect hurricanes from time to time, if you live near a forest, expect forest fires . In fact if man was not here forest fires would burn till they exhausted fuel or winter came! Ponder that! If you live near a river, expect it to flood from time to time. Live in or near a desert, expect to have water issues and heat! Live in the mountains?, expect landslides . Live in the plains, expect tornadoes from time to time.
Then factor in that governments have been involved in Weather modification for many years. It's not a conspiracy theory. Are they helping or screwing things up? Google "Weather modification" "Chem trails" are a distinct possibility, not just con trails. Do you really think they would tell you what they are experimenting with?
https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/weather-modification#:~:text=as%20silver%20iodide.-,Techniques,more%20rapidly%20than%20the%20droplets.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weather_modification
I'm all for building a better mousetrap. I'm not convinced electric is the solution. I do know it will make a few people and a lot of politician's really rich. "Insider trading" much?
I'm all for how about stopping using the oceans and waterways as a garbage dump, stop wrapping all my food in plastic, etc..... don't crap in your sandbox sort of mentality. Get rid of planned obsolescence, make stuff last so we don't have to throw it out and make more. Can't do that though, who makes more money when you buy a new one? Taxes every time you buy a new one... Too much waist in our society's.
I'm also for " science" but not the science thats funded to get the answer that the guy making the money wants. Again thinking about Covid and the vaccine. Real science is always evolving, no such thing as "settled science" "We" are not that smart!
It does make sense... I.e the efficiency of a natural gas fired power plant is around 45%, while the efficiency of gasoline engines is around 20% and even lower for LNG engines. By efficiency it is meant what percentage of the energy is actually captured. In a internal combustion engine the bulk of the energy made is heat which is wasted.
Natural gas is cleaner than coal but by no means good for the environment as it does produce CO2 - "About 117 pounds of CO2 are produced per million British thermal units (MMBtu) equivalent of natural gas compared with more than 200 pounds of CO2 per MMBtu of coal and more than 160 pounds per MMBtu of distillate fuel oil." Maybe by 2035 they will have an EV truck that can tow 10,000 pounds 400 miles with hardly any stops and waiting to charge but I`ll believe it when I see it. I am in the Northeast where electricity is EXPENSIVE and I live close enough to a nuclear plant to be vaporized if it ever had a meltdown so at least locally a nuke plant was not very helpfull. We haven`t had any brownouts but there are still worries about. In other parts of the country it is a much more serious issue and has been for years with no solutions yet so there is nothing that makes me think they will all of the sudden come up with one to meet even higher demands.