E-Bodies.org Cuda Challenger Forum

Technical Shop => VIN, Fender Tag, Build Sheet & Date Codes => Topic started by: mtull on October 13, 2023, 03:37:50 PM

Title: Understanding Engine Assembly Plant Codes, VIN stamps and more
Post by: mtull on October 13, 2023, 03:37:50 PM
Please educate me,  I need help understanding engine VIN stamps and a few more things.

I found a forum post stating 440 engines were built in Trenton Michigan Plant, code (T or TP)?  I also found another forum post stating the engine year codes are:
D = 68
E = 69
F = 70

Say you had an early built 1970 E-Body built in August or September of 1969 with either a 440 or 440 six pack.

Questions:
- Would the engine code most likely be an E440 or F440?
- I think the first character for the engine VIN represents the year?  Would the VIN most likely start with a 9 or 0?
- I think the second character in the engine VIN represents the assembly plant code,  What would it most likely be?

Regarding the engine year code, I'm assuming early or late cars are gray areas regarding the year due to supply vs. demand?

Thank you
M.

Title: Re: Understanding Engine Assembly Plant Codes, VIN stamps and more
Post by: Chryco Psycho on October 13, 2023, 07:14:11 PM
Once the 70 model production starts in early Aug everything is coded 70
The Engine will be F coded
the vin is zero
Ebodies were B code for Hamtramk plant
Title: Re: Understanding Engine Assembly Plant Codes, VIN stamps and more
Post by: 6bblgt on October 13, 2023, 07:39:30 PM
Quote from: Chryco Psycho on October 13, 2023, 07:14:11 PM
Once the 70 model production starts in early Aug everything is coded 70
The Engine will be F coded
the vin is zero
Ebodies were B code for Hamtramk plant ("0B" in the VIN)

:iagree:

Ebodies were E code for Los Angeles plant ("0E" in the VIN)

little to NO gray area concerning early or late vehicles
Title: Re: Understanding Engine Assembly Plant Codes, VIN stamps and more
Post by: mtull on October 14, 2023, 07:22:14 AM
Thank you so much for the education!
Title: Re: Understanding Engine Assembly Plant Codes, VIN stamps and more
Post by: cuda hunter on October 14, 2023, 07:25:49 AM
If the F motor was produced in 1970, wouldn't all the e bodies earlier than actual 1970 have had F motors that were produced in E 1969? 
I thought there were 5 months that would have received E 1969 motors and when 70 started, actual code dated F motors were installed. 
  Is that wrong? 

  Did the factory produce F 1970 motors in 1969?  Therefore not having correct cast dates on the blocks?   Correct for the year of car they were going into but not correct to the actual date they were produced? 
Title: Re: Understanding Engine Assembly Plant Codes, VIN stamps and more
Post by: Blowout on October 14, 2023, 09:18:56 AM
 :popcorn:
I was going to ask this exact question. My car has a build date of 10/1969 and was wondering if I should be searching for an E or F HP motor..
Title: Re: Understanding Engine Assembly Plant Codes, VIN stamps and more
Post by: Mr Cuda on October 14, 2023, 07:09:59 PM
 I think there's some confusion in the answers.
Yes, B and E plants, but all 70 model year engines are F stamped.
Only Dan would know if August cars got leftover E stamp motors,  but I'm sure by September,  they did not.

I accept being corrected.
Title: Re: Understanding Engine Assembly Plant Codes, VIN stamps and more
Post by: Chryco Psycho on October 14, 2023, 09:18:35 PM
Engine block casting dates could go back 4 months from Aug 69 but once assigned to a 70 build it will have an F stamping .
Slipped my mind that 70 had E bodies from LA E plant 71 up were only B code
Title: Re: Understanding Engine Assembly Plant Codes, VIN stamps and more
Post by: 6bblgt on October 15, 2023, 09:40:48 AM
casting date is a reference point - it could be 1-month, 3-months, 6-months or more before a car's actual production date

ALL 1970 model year engines, from pre-production to August 1969 to July 1970 are "F-SERIES": F440, F383, FW340, etc.
Title: Re: Understanding Engine Assembly Plant Codes, VIN stamps and more
Post by: 7E-Bodies on October 15, 2023, 05:29:43 PM
To reiterate on what Dan states above, my numbers matching 70 440 has a casting date of 5/14/69 and the car has an SPD of 11/04/69.
Title: Re: Understanding Engine Assembly Plant Codes, VIN stamps and more
Post by: mtull on October 15, 2023, 08:36:28 PM
Quote from: 7E-Bodies on October 15, 2023, 05:29:43 PM
To reiterate on what Dan states above, my numbers matching 70 440 has a casting date of 5/14/69 and the car has an SPD of 11/04/69.

Thank you for giving a real world example.  The block was cast six months prior.  Wow!

I learned allot during the course of this thread. Thank you to all who contributed
Title: Re: Understanding Engine Assembly Plant Codes, VIN stamps and more
Post by: cuda hunter on October 16, 2023, 07:23:15 PM
Quote from: 7E-Bodies on October 15, 2023, 05:29:43 PM
To reiterate on what Dan states above, my numbers matching 70 440 has a casting date of 5/14/69 and the car has an SPD of 11/04/69.

So your 440 upper pad has a stamping of F440, correct?
Title: Re: Understanding Engine Assembly Plant Codes, VIN stamps and more
Post by: 6bblgt on October 16, 2023, 08:29:34 PM
ALL 1970 model year engines will be "F-SERIES"   :takealook:  even engines assembled in 1969
Title: Re: Understanding Engine Assembly Plant Codes, VIN stamps and more
Post by: 7E-Bodies on October 17, 2023, 06:50:50 PM
Another sample of mine...
Title: Re: Understanding Engine Assembly Plant Codes, VIN stamps and more
Post by: 7E-Bodies on October 17, 2023, 06:53:37 PM
ZERO flipping idea why the casting date pic decided to roll 180 degrees  :pullinghair: :verymad: :madashell:, but there it is. Those were pics prior to engine rebuild (mostly stock with a 0.020 over).
Title: Re: Understanding Engine Assembly Plant Codes, VIN stamps and more
Post by: mtull on October 18, 2023, 04:53:40 AM
Quote from: 7E-Bodies on October 17, 2023, 06:50:50 PM
Another sample of mine...

I see the block was cast May 14, 1969 and assembled November 3.  Is the 'B' seen in your pic and in the one 6bblgt posted indicate the block was assembled at the Hamtramck plant? 
Title: Re: Understanding Engine Assembly Plant Codes, VIN stamps and more
Post by: cuda hunter on October 18, 2023, 08:28:04 AM
Here is a warranty or service block that I own.  No tag to determine it's origins.

Any thoughts? Or explanation for the S stamp?

Title: Re: Understanding Engine Assembly Plant Codes, VIN stamps and more
Post by: 6bblgt on October 18, 2023, 08:41:31 AM
S = Service
Title: Re: Understanding Engine Assembly Plant Codes, VIN stamps and more
Post by: 6bblgt on October 18, 2023, 08:51:41 AM
Quote from: mtull on October 18, 2023, 04:53:40 AM
Is the 'B' seen in your pic and in the one 6bblgt posted indicate the block was assembled at the Hamtramck plant?

all muscle car era 383/440s were assembled at Chrysler's TRENTON, MI Engine Assembly Plant

I believe the random "A" "B" "C" stampings seen on some top pads are the builder's reference to the piston bore sizes that are also seen painted on the sides of blocks
Title: Re: Understanding Engine Assembly Plant Codes, VIN stamps and more
Post by: mtull on October 18, 2023, 08:52:25 AM
Interesting differences in the stampings.  This blocks casting date is 11-12-69
Title: Re: Understanding Engine Assembly Plant Codes, VIN stamps and more
Post by: cuda hunter on October 19, 2023, 06:59:29 AM
S is for service.
So, there is a W stamped on the pad above the S.
Would that signify a service block that was used for warranty?
Or is that just a builders stamp that is inconsequential? 

Title: Re: Understanding Engine Assembly Plant Codes, VIN stamps and more
Post by: 6bblgt on October 19, 2023, 08:36:37 AM
"WT" is for water test - pressure testing the block before assembly
Title: Re: Understanding Engine Assembly Plant Codes, VIN stamps and more
Post by: cuda hunter on October 19, 2023, 07:08:49 PM
Thank you.  I see it now. 
Your wealth of information is astounding. 
Title: Re: Understanding Engine Assembly Plant Codes, VIN stamps and more
Post by: JH27N0B on April 26, 2024, 09:20:57 AM
I have a guy real interested in my NOM 71 V code and wants me to verify a few things on the engine.  My engine was advertised as being "date correct" when I bought the car, and a potential buyer a few years ago told me he did some homework and found that claim true.
I need to take a picture of the assembly date on my engine to send to the potential buyer and decipher it.  I assume it should be "G" for 71 and then there will be 2 numbers for month and day?  My cars SBD is late october of 70, so something like G 10-02 would be a date correct 440 for my car as an example?
And its on a pad on the front below a cylinder head?
Title: Re: Understanding Engine Assembly Plant Codes, VIN stamps and more
Post by: mtull on April 26, 2024, 10:42:53 AM
Quote from: JH27N0B on April 26, 2024, 09:20:57 AMAnd its on a pad on the front below a cylinder head?

Attached image shows location of assembly date stamp.  Yes, "G" is 1971.  Yes, the date format is mm dd.  The block casting date and VIN pad should be visible from underneath the right side of the car.

B / RB Engine Blocks (http://www.moparts.org/Tech/Archive/motor/36.html)
Title: Re: Understanding Engine Assembly Plant Codes, VIN stamps and more
Post by: JH27N0B on April 26, 2024, 10:54:54 AM
Thanks!
Title: Re: Understanding Engine Assembly Plant Codes, VIN stamps and more
Post by: cuda hunter on April 26, 2024, 08:31:33 PM
Yes, Thanks!
Cool link.
Title: Re: Understanding Engine Assembly Plant Codes, VIN stamps and more
Post by: MoparCarGuy on April 30, 2024, 01:42:04 PM
Quote from: 6bblgt on October 18, 2023, 08:51:41 AM
Quote from: mtull on October 18, 2023, 04:53:40 AMIs the 'B' seen in your pic and in the one 6bblgt posted indicate the block was assembled at the Hamtramck plant?

all muscle car era 383/440s were assembled at Chrysler's TRENTON, MI Engine Assembly Plant

I believe the random "A" "B" "C" stampings seen on some top pads are the builder's reference to the piston bore sizes that are also seen painted on the sides of blocks

These may help with the other pad stamps.