E-Bodies.org Cuda Challenger Forum

Technical Shop => Interior => Topic started by: nsmall on September 18, 2017, 12:20:52 AM

Title: Paint on the dash frame
Post by: nsmall on September 18, 2017, 12:20:52 AM
So I'm basically down to my last part to restore which is the dash.  The gauges are out as I had them restored.  I have a new pad to install.

I'm debating whether or not I should paint the whole thing as it looks decent.  So in the photos below does any of this get exposed as a lot of it seems like it will be covered up by trim?

Thanks
Title: Re: Paint on the dash frame
Post by: CudaMoparRay on September 18, 2017, 12:42:38 AM
Probably will not show but seeing as you have gone this far, why not paint all of it? :alan2cents:
Title: Re: Paint on the dash frame
Post by: Shane Kelley on September 18, 2017, 04:05:44 AM
Definitely paint the whole thing. You have come to far to leave that. Great piece of mind knowing it's all nice and fresh. Do the glove box door and ashtray at the same time so everything will have the same sheen and look nice.
Title: Re: Paint on the dash frame
Post by: 750-h2 on September 18, 2017, 05:57:31 AM
To get the proper "Suede" look you can paint the dash frame, glove box door and ashtray with a neutral colour of Restoleum FINE Textured paint. You then top coat this with the colour of your choice. This method works great! :bigthumb:
Title: Re: Paint on the dash frame
Post by: MoparDave on September 18, 2017, 07:32:33 AM
just remember after painting the frame. To bare all chassis contact pointes so the frame has grounds contact to the body. This is the single biggest issue with gauges and wiring issues once cars are put back together. Same as with the engine and trunk compartments.  NO ground = headaches.
Title: Re: Paint on the dash frame
Post by: Mrbill426 on September 18, 2017, 08:01:55 AM
Would their black textured paint be correct on it's own, for black dashes?  Or universal satin black maybe?  Don't know how true is is but I have heard that rustoleum sometimes does not play well with other finishes; is this true? :dunno:

:wrenching:


Quote from: 750-h2 on September 18, 2017, 05:57:31 AM
To get the proper "Suede" look you can paint the dash frame, glove box door and ashtray with a neutral colour of Restoleum FINE Textured paint. You then top coat this with the colour of your choice. This method works great! :bigthumb:
Title: Re: Paint on the dash frame
Post by: Burdar on September 18, 2017, 08:19:57 AM
I don't think 73s should have the textured paint like other years.  My 73 didn't.  I sprayed my dash frame with SEM Trim Black and it was a perfect match.
Title: Re: Paint on the dash frame
Post by: 750-h2 on September 18, 2017, 08:29:21 AM
Quote from: Mrbill426 on September 18, 2017, 08:01:55 AM
Would their black textured paint be correct on it's own, for black dashes?  Or universal satin black maybe?  Don't know how true is is but I have heard that rustoleum sometimes does not play well with other finishes; is this true? :dunno:

I used the Dupont dye paints for the dash and plastics. It is an enamel base paint so there was no reaction with the Restoleum. You certainly would have problems if you sprayed laquer paint over Restoleum.


:wrenching:


Quote from: 750-h2 on September 18, 2017, 05:57:31 AM
To get the proper "Suede" look you can paint the dash frame, glove box door and ashtray with a neutral colour of Restoleum FINE Textured paint. You then top coat this with the colour of your choice. This method works great! :bigthumb:
Title: Re: Paint on the dash frame
Post by: Burdar on September 18, 2017, 08:39:23 AM
I used Rustoleum Fine texture paint on my Dart's dash and steering column.  By itself, it's slightly TOO textured.  By painting over it, you bury some of that texture under the top coat.  I used clear on top of it to dull down the texture.
Title: Re: Paint on the dash frame
Post by: Mickm on September 18, 2017, 10:25:26 AM
As everyone has agreed, I'd paint it. Have you checked the fit of your new dash pad? I sent my core to Just Dashes and it looked awesome when it returned. I had already done the paint work on the dash but this is what I discovered when I mated them together.

(https://forum.e-bodies.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1104.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh332%2FMickm33%2FCuda%2FCUDA%2520DASH%2F20160304_111503_zps80edlygq.jpg&hash=2ce5cefbb34f851f5f450527816313d6f7c6083f) (http://s1104.photobucket.com/user/Mickm33/media/Cuda/CUDA%20DASH/20160304_111503_zps80edlygq.jpg.html)
This is how good the fit was on the passenger side corner. WTF???

(https://forum.e-bodies.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1104.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh332%2FMickm33%2FCuda%2FCUDA%2520DASH%2F20160510_171106_zpsi9drcvqi.jpg&hash=5aa98624453b02d6a245f6649ed8552dfefb0b5f) (http://s1104.photobucket.com/user/Mickm33/media/Cuda/CUDA%20DASH/20160510_171106_zpsi9drcvqi.jpg.html)
I had to split the dash open just  beneath the bend and open until it fit properly. Then weld and do the body work, prime and repaint.

Just trying to head off any unnecessary work and problems.

Cheers!
Mickm
Title: Re: Paint on the dash frame
Post by: MoparDave on September 18, 2017, 10:59:25 AM
Both manufactures from time to time have this issue. they pull the material too tight which create a gap. once its put together and in the car. I wont be seen. Foam tape also helps with gapping issues.

NONE of the Dashes are perfect.
Title: Re: Paint on the dash frame
Post by: nsmall on September 18, 2017, 12:19:18 PM
I have two cans of SEM black trim paint.  I'll just go all the way.  Just pretty wiped out.  3.5 months, restored all the parts.  I wish I was less uptight.  Thanks for all the advice.  I really appreciate your input. 
Title: Re: Paint on the dash frame
Post by: Burdar on September 18, 2017, 12:38:37 PM
QuoteJust pretty wiped out.  3.5 months, restored all the parts.

It's not a race.  When you feel wiped out, take a step back...take a break.  Don't rush it.  There are a lot of people who take years to get where you have in 4 months.  You're doing great.

Take a week off and relax.
Title: Re: Paint on the dash frame
Post by: Mrbill426 on September 18, 2017, 12:48:09 PM
Into year #6 here.

:wrenching:


Quote from: Burdar on September 18, 2017, 12:38:37 PM
QuoteJust pretty wiped out.  3.5 months, restored all the parts.

It's not a race.  When you feel wiped out, take a step back...take a break.  Don't rush it.  There are a lot of people who take years to get where you have in 4 months.  You're doing great.

Take a week off and relax.
Title: Re: Paint on the dash frame
Post by: Shane Kelley on September 18, 2017, 01:17:46 PM
Mine took me  3 1/2 years for everything to complete.
Title: Re: Paint on the dash frame
Post by: Aar1064 on September 18, 2017, 02:23:43 PM
I'm at 4.5 years to complete so I know all about taking it nice and slow.

I used SEM trim black in the quart sprayed with a gun. Two medium coats then one final coat with air pressure up to around 50 and fluid control on gun screwed in so paint sprayed dry. Kept gun about 20 inches away and let her rip. Turned out really well I thought and texture from the dry spray.
Title: Re: Paint on the dash frame
Post by: nsmall on September 18, 2017, 04:38:32 PM
Thanks for the pics.  Someone is helping me with final assembly and I ran into a deadline as he has two other cars on deck.  Mine is on the rack right now.  I'm so excited I'm starting to lose sleep. 
Title: Re: Paint on the dash frame
Post by: RUNCHARGER on September 18, 2017, 05:24:22 PM
Good job: I try to dry spray them as well to get some texture.
Title: Re: Paint on the dash frame
Post by: 1 Wild R/T on September 18, 2017, 05:27:04 PM
Mine took a year, every night after work I'd be in the garage for at least four hours... Every weekend 10-12 hours on Saturday & again on Sunday....  Second photo shows what suede finish looks like
Title: Re: Paint on the dash frame
Post by: nsmall on September 23, 2017, 03:43:34 PM
Quote from: MoparDave on September 18, 2017, 07:32:33 AM
just remember after painting the frame. To bare all chassis contact pointes so the frame has grounds contact to the body. This is the single biggest issue with gauges and wiring issues once cars are put back together. Same as with the engine and trunk compartments.  NO ground = headaches.


@Burdar (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/burdar_173)

So I'm assuming these are the only two points of contact that I need to keep in raw metal?  So basically everywhere above my fingers I will leave and raw metal and that should be good enough for ground?

Besides these two points of contact am I missing anything?

Thanks
Title: Re: Paint on the dash frame
Post by: Burdar on September 23, 2017, 04:34:38 PM
That should be fine. As long as the paint is thin and not thick right there, the washer should cut through to bare metal when you tighten it down. You can leave a bare spot if you want.
Title: Re: Paint on the dash frame
Post by: Roadman on September 23, 2017, 04:49:39 PM
     I like to run a hidden wire from the dash frame, thru the firewall , to the block. But I'm just anal about grounds.  Actually I run gronnd wires from the block to the wiper motor, voltage regulator, etc.   :alan2cents:

:rebelflag" :rebelflag"
Title: Re: Paint on the dash frame
Post by: nsmall on September 23, 2017, 07:19:54 PM
@Burdar (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/burdar_173)

Dash is mocked up.  Looks great.  Some of my plastic trim is OEM and so it's on the brittle side.

I totally understand the concept of having it completely put together before you put it in but I'm thinking that I should leave the trim at least on the driver side off as I do not want this to break and have to buy a new one.

I should be able to get the driver side trim in after the dash is in with no real issue....correct?

One last question is there any way to beef up the dash where it goes up near the windshield as it seems a little weak as there's no metal frame under it there?  I bought an ultimate rides Dash and very happy but it does seem like maybe over many years the dash could warp there.



Thanks
Title: Re: Paint on the dash frame
Post by: fc7cuda on September 23, 2017, 07:41:34 PM
Quote from: nsmall on September 23, 2017, 07:19:54 PM
@Burdar (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/burdar_173)

I should be able to get the driver side trim in after the dash is in with no real issue....correct?


Correct.  A little tight but definitely doable.
Title: Re: Paint on the dash frame
Post by: Burdar on September 23, 2017, 08:32:47 PM
DS trim is easy to install after. Test fit it now though. I had to trim the dash pad so it fit better. Easier to do that now.

The four fasteners at the base of the windshield will hold the frame just fine. If you think the E-body frame is flimsy, you should see my Dart frame.
Title: Re: Paint on the dash frame
Post by: nsmall on September 23, 2017, 08:58:13 PM
@Burdar (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/burdar_173)

Darren...thanks a lot.  You are very good to me.

Just to clarify I was referring to not the dash frame but the actual pad doesn't have reinforced metal underneath of it.
There's a little give in this area and I'm just a little paranoid as I do not want to deal with this down the road.

The previous owner had an ABS dash in that warped some.  That's why I dropped the $$$ for a new one.  The first two photos are of my new Dash where I'm a little worried.  The second two photos are of the ABS Dash which I highly recommend NOT buying.
Title: Re: Paint on the dash frame
Post by: 1 Wild R/T on September 23, 2017, 09:05:05 PM
Quote from: nsmall on September 23, 2017, 03:43:34 PM

So I'm assuming these are the only two points of contact that I need to keep in raw metal?  So basically everywhere above my fingers I will leave and raw metal and that should be good enough for ground?

Besides these two points of contact am I missing anything?

Thanks

Those two points are fine for grounding the dash frame to the body, but the dash cluster, the radio, the wiper switch & in turn the switch pod, assorted relays, the courtesy light if so equipped... All ground through their mounting hardware which attaches through the dash frame...
Title: Re: Paint on the dash frame
Post by: nsmall on September 23, 2017, 09:24:36 PM
Quote from: 1 Wild R/T on September 23, 2017, 09:05:05 PM
Quote from: nsmall on September 23, 2017, 03:43:34 PM

So I'm assuming these are the only two points of contact that I need to keep in raw metal?  So basically everywhere above my fingers I will leave and raw metal and that should be good enough for ground?

Besides these two points of contact am I missing anything?

Thanks

Those two points are fine for grounding the dash frame to the body, but the dash cluster, the radio, the wiper switch & in turn the switch pod, assorted relays, the courtesy light if so equipped... All ground through their mounting hardware which attaches through the dash frame...

@1 Wild R/T (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/1-wild-rt_320). 1 wild r/t. I can't seem to tag you as it doesn't come up but maybe you will get this.  Sorry but now I'm getting a little confused. I was planning to paint the entire Dash frame black.  So will everything be grounded even though I'm painting it black?  The two points of contact for the dash frame I plan to leave in raw metal. So am I going to be okay for grounds painting the dash frame?
Title: Re: Paint on the dash frame
Post by: nsmall on September 23, 2017, 09:27:06 PM
@Burdar (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/burdar_173)

This is a real question. Does the defrost duct go underneath the frame Or does it mount to the firewall and the dash sits on top of it?  Thanks
Title: Re: Paint on the dash frame
Post by: 1 Wild R/T on September 23, 2017, 09:36:18 PM
Just a little masking tape over some screw holes.... There are four screws that mount the instrument cluster to the dash frame, a little tape keeps paint from insulating the cluster.... You could just paint it & hope/trust that the screw will cut through the paint & ground securely.. When Mopar painted the dash frame it was super thin & with lacquer which the screws would cut through easily... When we restore stuff we use more & better paints so you have ground issues....

Just look through the stuff that mounts to the dash frame & consider it's ground path... It's usually grounded through it's mounting points, very rare that there is a separate ground wire....
Title: Re: Paint on the dash frame
Post by: 1 Wild R/T on September 23, 2017, 09:37:44 PM
Defrost duct mounts to the firewall
Title: Re: Paint on the dash frame
Post by: nsmall on September 23, 2017, 09:56:17 PM
Thank you!

When it comes to mounting the dash to the frame.... I'm assuming everywhere I have a spoon pointed to a stud is where the frame attaches to the dash pad... correct?  I'm just forgetting now where the dash frame mounts to the actual firewall.  I can worry about that later but I just want to make sure that I can mount the frame to the dash pad by using the studs picture with the spoons?  Thanks

:thankyou:
Title: Re: Paint on the dash frame
Post by: 1 Wild R/T on September 23, 2017, 10:22:07 PM
The dash pad isn't part of the ground path, the frame it is bolted to does all the ground path duty....

Title: Re: Paint on the dash frame
Post by: Burdar on September 24, 2017, 06:39:39 AM
The lower windshield opening should support the center of the dash. I don't think warping is an issue.

The defroster duct mounts to the firewall and the dash goes on top. Be aware that the duct does NOT fit tight to the heater box. There is a pretty good sized gap between the two. That gap is supposed to be there.
Title: Re: Paint on the dash frame
Post by: anlauto on September 28, 2017, 05:14:12 PM
I painted some dash frames today too..... :D

I like to work in bulk....
Title: Re: Paint on the dash frame
Post by: nsmall on September 28, 2017, 05:47:48 PM
Looking good Alan.  Thanks for all your help.  I'm finally at the end of restoring my parts.  I can't imagine making a living doing this.  I would be getting about 1.50 an hour.
Title: Re: Paint on the dash frame
Post by: 1 Wild R/T on September 28, 2017, 09:36:30 PM
Quote from: anlauto on September 28, 2017, 05:14:12 PM
I painted some dash frames today too..... :D

I like to work in bulk....

All 4 speeds....
Title: Re: Paint on the dash frame
Post by: anlauto on September 29, 2017, 03:59:15 AM
Quote from: 1 Wild R/T on September 28, 2017, 09:36:30 PM
Quote from: anlauto on September 28, 2017, 05:14:12 PM
I painted some dash frames today too..... :D

I like to work in bulk....

All 4 speeds....

YUP....Working on six E-Bodies right now and only one automatic in the bunch... http://www.alangallantautomotiverestoration.com/CURRENT-RESTORATION.html
Title: Re: Paint on the dash frame
Post by: nsmall on September 29, 2017, 08:06:48 PM
Alan I honestly don't understand how anyone can make money at restoring cars.  I can't believe how much time I spent in my garage restoring parts this past 4 months.  Im finally done restoring parts. 

I understand how it could get easier and you could go faster over time but it is still as so time consuming. 

I just looked at a lot of the cars that you restored on your website.  How long have you been doing this full-time?

As insane as it sounds I'm a little sad now as I really enjoyed restoring the parts.  I can't imagine ever doing this again as this was more of a once-in-a-lifetime project for me. 

Thanks for all your help everyone as I'm really excited with what's going on with my car right now.

Neil
Title: Re: Paint on the dash frame
Post by: anlauto on September 30, 2017, 06:08:14 AM
Quote from: nsmall on September 29, 2017, 08:06:48 PM
Alan I honestly don't understand how anyone can make money at restoring cars.  I can't believe how much time I spent in my garage restoring parts this past 4 months.  Im finally done restoring parts. 

I understand how it could get easier and you could go faster over time but it is still as so time consuming. 

I just looked at a lot of the cars that you restored on your website.  How long have you been doing this full-time?

As insane as it sounds I'm a little sad now as I really enjoyed restoring the parts.  I can't imagine ever doing this again as this was more of a once-in-a-lifetime project for me. 

Thanks for all your help everyone as I'm really excited with what's going on with my car right now.

Neil

Neil....
I started restoring my own Mopars in 1984 with my own first Cuda.
I didn't start restoring cars for other people until after getting married and moving to Georgetown ON where I'm at now.

The first car I got "paid" to do was in 2003. I kept going, restoring cars on the side for other people while working in a factory 40hrs/week up until I quit in 2010.

I've been restoring cars full time out of my little two car garage for a little over 7 years. I call it "living the dream."

I don't make a lot of money at it.....I NET about the same as I did working in the factory, maybe a little more in recent years, but most often times less than I was making before. For me it's not about the money. I truly love restoring cars. :worship:
Title: Re: Paint on the dash frame
Post by: RUNCHARGER on September 30, 2017, 08:57:55 AM
After you have restored a few you don't have to spend time researching techniques and materials. So it can go a LOT faster. Sort of like starting a new job as opposed to having 10 years experience.
Title: Re: Paint on the dash frame
Post by: nsmall on September 30, 2017, 01:04:16 PM
I had no idea Alan.  I was thinking this was a 20+ year operation for you.  I'm happy for you.  Lots of people don't get to do what they enjoy.  Hopefully you have a reputation that keeps you busy and will bring home the bacon down the road.   
Title: Re: Paint on the dash frame
Post by: anlauto on October 05, 2017, 07:43:16 PM
Man it's a lot of work doing four at a time... :unbelievable:
Title: Re: Paint on the dash frame
Post by: Mrbill426 on October 05, 2017, 07:50:21 PM
They look great  :bigthumb:


Quote from: anlauto on October 05, 2017, 07:43:16 PM
Man it's a lot of work doing four at a time... :unbelievable:
Title: Re: Paint on the dash frame
Post by: nsmall on October 05, 2017, 10:00:37 PM
Alan's bringing back the assembly line.  He's a one man factory.