I do a bunch of work on my friend Greg's 71 Cuda with a 572 all aluminum Hemi. He was complaining about a miss so this is what I found today. Man if this had been my car it would have punched holes in aluminum and I'd be buying new everything. I think I need some of his lucky pills. This engine was Pro built but this is why I always build my own stuff, then you have no one else to blame and I tend to over do everything because I worry about everything.
All of the valve locks on the intake valves had witness marks on them and were pulling through, this was the first one and he got darn lucky. I believe the rocker roller broke after the valve jammed under the retainer but maybe not. The big problem now is to figure out if the valve springs are wrong or if the locks are bad as I like to fix stuff once. All the other rollers on the rockers are good so that is why I believe the springs or locks instigated this.
:o :o :o :o That's some scary stuff! I'm going to sleep with the light on tonight.... it scared me that much! :o :o :o
Crazy , like you I would never get that lucky :worship:
something is not right , poor lock quality probably as even with high spring load that should never happen .
The piston may have slammed the valve up into the rocker breaking it or it could have pinched between the piston & rocker breaking it .
The sides of the locks should not touch if they do as in the picture the valve is loose inside the lock which is not right , are they 3/8 locks on 11/32 stem ?
Talk about getting it just in time, maybe someone should consider a Lotto Ticket. :cheers:
Psycho: Yep, that's what I am thinking, it seems the locks are mismatched to the other parts. I'm going to take the heads to a good local cylinder head guy tomorrow and see what he says. The car owner is pretty good at wanting stuff right so I think I'll just order all new parts that match each other. I don't want to take a chance on any of it.
Whats up with the stripped torx head to the left of the offending rocker?
Man this guy is extremely lucky and should go out and buy a bunch of PowerBall lottos!!!
That pin walked out like it had a mind of it's own, if you don't have the right spring pressures that can cause some serious problems. Hey what kind of roller rockers are those?
I don"t see the stripped Torx , the shaft bolts are 12 point & there is light reflection from the rolled top if that is what you are looking at .
When the correct locks areused there will be a small gap where the 2 halves meet up pinching the valve , the locks look like both side are touching , Hemi uses the smaller 11/32 valve stem but 3/8 locks would fit & be very close , my bet is the wrong locks are in there on all of the valves . you also have to watch 7* or 10* , I never use 7* on any build as 10* is the same price & a better system .
They ground that fastener to clear the valvecover when they put it together. Everything is from Indy including the rockers. I'd like to put FHO locks, retainers, lashcaps on it.
Ok that makes sense, after Chryco said that I thought I was seeing things. :wowzers:
Quote from: RUNCHARGER on February 21, 2017, 08:09:14 AM
They ground that fastener to clear the valvecover when they put it together. Everything is from Indy including the rockers. I'd like to put FHO locks, retainers, lashcaps on it.
WHat did you find out Sheldon :huh:
It'll be a while. My cylinder head guy is stacked up like crazy. He figured the locks were the correct diameter but he was so busy I didn't want to take his time to knock one down to see if they are the correct angle. Hopefully within a week or so. He said the damage was similar to a friends Victors though and they pulled account the valve springs were too weak.
Ha, ha: These Indy heads weigh as much as iron ones do. I told him to keep his die grinder away from them though. I'm pretty sure he wanted to get them on his bench and play with them and "lighten them up" a bit.
Scott called me today: The valve locks were low quality, Scott said he seen no machine marks on the locks almost like they were cast or pressed, he said it was like something you would buy at Walmart. Springs were weak with 150 lbs closed. All the valves are damaged because the locks have been rattling away at the grooves. The valve job was not good either.
The car owner said he is going to call Indy to try to get them to supply the new parts, I said why bother? We don't want that quality of parts again anyway, I told Scott to order Manley parts, I've always had good luck with them. I just hope we can pick up a few horses with a good quality valve job and controlled valve actuation. We chassis dynoed this engine and it was only putting out about 700HP at the crank whereas we were told it was an 800HP engine.
We're hoping to trailer it down to MATS and make some runs, we'll see how it comes together.
That sucks! But you got lucky it wasn't worse.
Actually this is all good news , you have located the source of the problem without wasting the block or heads or any real damage at all , with new premium parts & proper machining everything is going to be far better now :woohoo:
This engine was a bomb with the fuse lit , it was going to fail & it did with the best possible scenerio , valves locks & springs were all low quality & are all being replaced :slapme5:
Hmm I seem to remember someone saying something about spring pressures....nah.....
:deadhorse:
I can hardly wait to dyno it again. I agree Psycho, the owner is kind of a lucky bugger I'm not sure if he realizes this could have cost $20k more than it did.
:iagree:
I think Neil would agree with me on this.
When building a motor each component is critical to the build and no short cuts should be taken. Think of it like a symphony, each has it's job to do and work well with others.
Everything has to be matched and the "Crate Motor" thing should be a professionally matched assembly. However nothing could be further from the truth. This guy had ordered this engine before I had a chance to talk to him. I would have stopped him and I would have built a proper engine from the get-go. Unfortunately people see advertisements from large companies and assume they are getting a professionally engineered and assembled product.
Quote from: RUNCHARGER on March 05, 2017, 11:46:16 AM
Everything has to be matched and the "Crate Motor" thing should be a professionally matched assembly. However nothing could be further from the truth. This guy had ordered this engine before I had a chance to talk to him. I would have stopped him and I would have built a proper engine from the get-go. Unfortunately people see advertisements from large companies and assume they are getting a professionally engineered and assembled product.
Tell me about it, mine is at FHO now getting done properly.
Ouch on the $$$ but Tim builds a great Hemi :console:
Quote from: Chryco Psycho on April 07, 2017, 07:54:01 PM
Ouch on the $$$ but Tim builds a great Hemi :console:
Yeah, not what I thought I would be doing but yeah he is doing his magic with it.
Quote from: cordodge on April 08, 2017, 04:33:25 AM
Quote from: Chryco Psycho on April 07, 2017, 07:54:01 PM
Ouch on the $$$ but Tim builds a great Hemi :console:
Yeah, not what I thought I would be doing but yeah he is doing his magic with it.
Your motor is in good hands, what you found in yours is what still gives me concerns about the engine Sheldon is working on... Yeah you've corrected the heads but whats hidden i the bottom end.... I don't care what component I have trust issues with some very respected "Professional" shops... Some are truly great but some.....
Tim at FHO is the one guy I trust, his work is beautiful. This Cuda engine came from Indiana and it didn't even have a cam button for the roller camshaft. The heads were torqued differently left to right (1 guy on each side I bet) and it had the wrong camshaft in it from the get-go. The owner is getting pretty fed up with it and is now thinking of selling it, which goes to show you're better off paying $5k more going in to get a quality product.