E-Bodies.org Cuda Challenger Forum

Technical Shop => Engine, Transmission & Rear End => Topic started by: aussie on October 27, 2018, 05:03:05 AM

Title: engine colour change
Post by: aussie on October 27, 2018, 05:03:05 AM
Does anyone know when the engine colour changed from hemi orange to blue on a 340, think it was around mid to late 71. If anybody can help that would be great. 
Title: Re: engine colour change
Post by: 73_Cuda_4_Me on October 27, 2018, 05:22:10 AM
http://www.mymopar.com/enginecolors.htm
Title: Re: engine colour change
Post by: JH27N0B on October 27, 2018, 06:41:47 AM
I've seen the subject discussed a number of times on forums before, and my recollection is that it was around March of '71 that 340 engine production changed to a different plant, and that is when the color change from orange to corporate blue happened.
Maybe Scott Smith will chime in, he's the 340 guru!
Title: Re: engine colour change
Post by: Cuda Cody on October 27, 2018, 07:11:47 AM
 :iagree:  I bet @ScottSmith_Harms (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/scottsmithharms_164)  knows
Title: Re: engine colour change
Post by: ScottSmith_Harms on October 27, 2018, 09:34:51 AM
It changed when they changed engine plants from Windsor Ontario Canada (orange) to Mound Road Michigan (blue). The engine assembly info was stamped on the face of the block. A 71 Windsor engine was stamped GW340Pxxxx and a 71 Mound Road engine was stamped GM340Pxxxx.
Title: Re: engine colour change
Post by: Cuda Cody on October 27, 2018, 09:39:32 AM
I learned something new today!   :worship:
Title: Re: engine colour change
Post by: 6bblgt on October 27, 2018, 10:05:36 AM
the specific date is a difficult question to answer, but the "blue" engines started to appear in cars during March of '71

the date is going to vary based on the specific 340 engine and rate of use (and inventory control) at each plant
A, B & E-body engines - automatic & manual transmission engines - A/C & non-A/C engines - assembly plant: 1A, 1B, 1E & 1G engines

if you have your original engine - the GW340 "orange" VS GM340 "blue" stamping is the first place to look
Title: Re: engine colour change
Post by: aussie on October 29, 2018, 04:23:47 AM
Thanks guys, Yes the engine is not original to the car and the stamping on front just below the left head has one number which is just hard to make out. What I do know is the block was cast on 20 January 1971 (1.20.71) is orange with not a hint of blue colour to be found. The engine number is HM 340R  3_64 0130 and was trying to narrow down what it may be, trying to figure out when it was built.
Title: Re: engine colour change
Post by: 6bblgt on October 29, 2018, 08:56:44 AM
Quote from: aussie on October 29, 2018, 04:23:47 AM
..... The engine number is HM 340R  3_64 0130 .....

that's a '72 model year engine - it was originally painted "BLUE"

H = 1972 model year
M = Mound Rd. engine assembly plant Detroit, MI
340 = cu.in.
R = regular fuel
3_64 =
* 3564 = Sat.  5/1/71
* 3664 = Mon. 8/9/71
* 3764 = Wed. 11/17/71
* 3864 = Fri. 2/25/72
0130 = engine assembly sequence number

what is the partial VIN stamped on the block?
Title: Re: engine colour change
Post by: 6bblgt on October 29, 2018, 09:20:36 AM
what are you planning to install it in?  What's the VIN?
does it have a broadcast sheet and door sticker?

steel or cast crank? cast crank started with HM340R 3911 8000 (Wed. Apr. 12, 1972)
Title: Re: engine colour change
Post by: Shane Kelley on October 29, 2018, 09:38:53 AM
I have a blue January 1971 motor. It has the 2.02 J heads also.
Title: Re: engine colour change
Post by: 6bblgt on October 29, 2018, 10:17:57 AM
Quote from: Shane Kelley on October 29, 2018, 09:38:53 AM
I have a blue January 1971 motor. It has the 2.02 J heads also.
3553 = Tues. 4/20/71  :thinking:
Title: Re: engine colour change
Post by: aussie on October 30, 2018, 05:41:38 AM
Thanks for helping,  VIN 2R197713 on block near sump and don't know which crank is in it but it does have J heads. Engine was in the car when I got it and runs great, last owner did nothing to it except drive it less than 3000 miles in 15  years. She is trying to contact who she bought it from, so I can get more history on the car, no build sheet as i stripped the interior etc when I got it.   
Title: Re: engine colour change
Post by: ScottSmith_Harms on November 08, 2018, 08:37:14 PM
Like Dan said that 72 340 should have been blue originally. While it appears that it's always been orange I would wager that it has an older rebuild on it and that it was stripped to bare iron during the process and re-painted in orange. Completely bare iron is not an uncommon result of a good hot tanking or shot blasting. What I can't see on your block pics are the next 4 digits after HM340R which would be the 4 digit assembly date. Can you read them?
Title: Re: engine colour change
Post by: aussie on November 13, 2018, 04:56:53 AM
Yes I can read all but one number which is the 2nd in the sequence HM340R 3_64 0130,  VIN 2R197713 above sump pan, Block Casting Date 20 January 1971. I know the engine is not original to the car, just trying to find out the 2nd number which is very faint, looks a different number each time you look at it. :notsure:
Title: Re: engine colour change
Post by: 6bblgt on November 13, 2018, 09:12:54 AM
HM340R 3_64 0130
2R197713 ~ estimate build date C08 = Wednesday 12/8/71 (Julian date = 3785)
1 * 20 * 71 = cast date Wednesday 1/20/71 (Julian date = 3463)

3464 = Thursday 1/21/71 * too early for '72 production  :alan2cents:
3564 = Friday 5/1/71
3664 = Monday 8/9/71
3764 = Wednesday 11/17/71

what does it look like?  :rubeyes:
Title: Re: engine colour change
Post by: aussie on November 18, 2018, 04:31:30 AM
How did you work out  from VIN 2R197713 near oil pan means ---- approx. build date C08 and how does that translate to 3785
Title: Re: engine colour change
Post by: aussie on November 18, 2018, 05:14:34 AM
Here are a few more shots, see if you guys can see a number in it.  :rubeyes:
Title: Re: engine colour change
Post by: 6bblgt on November 18, 2018, 11:47:03 PM
Quote from: aussie on November 18, 2018, 04:31:30 AM
How did you work out  from VIN 2R197713 near oil pan means ---- approx. build date C08 and how does that translate to 3785

based on the small amount of 1972 Windsor plant data I have:

* the partial VIN stamping on the pan rail would be from a 1972 Windsor car scheduled around 12/08/71
* on the 10,000 day calendar that Chrysler used:
** C06 (MON. 12/06/71) = 3783
** C07 (TUE. 12/07/71) = 3784
** C08 (WED. 12/08/71) = 3785
** C09 (THU. 12/09/71) = 3786
** C10 (FRI. 12/10/71) = 3787
** etc.

looks like "3664" fits & looks closest to what's there  :alan2cents:

..... but I wonder if it is really messed up with extra spaces and is "3640" (FRI. 7/16/71)  :dunno: with half of a "0" or other digit at the end
Title: Re: engine colour change
Post by: aussie on December 05, 2018, 03:23:23 AM
Yes I originally thought it might be 3640 but then read somewhere that when it was stamped they used a block of numbers etc, not individual or separate stamps so that the eight numbers were evenly spaced and in line. Is this not correct.