hot_post in Power/Disc Brakes    Dissapointments continue   in Wheels, Tires, Brakes, Suspension & Steering Author Topic: Power/Disc Brakes Dissapointments continue  (Read 864 times)

Offline docmel

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Power/Disc Brakes Dissapointments continue
« on: July 31, 2020, 05:19:55 PM »
This is an update from a previous post on the same car, (71 Cuda) and I am still with no brakes

I just spent 10 straight hours trying to get my disc brakes working.  Last week I installed a complete power brake kit with 4 way disc brakes. 

The prob I had a few days ago was that I couldnt get the brakes to bleed.  So I bought a $80 compressor operated vacuum bleeder.   Now I have all the brakes bled, thank God.  But still, no brakes.   I mean no mush, nothing.  Pedal goes right to the floor, not even a slight build up of pressure

So I removed the master cylinder and bench bled it, AGAIN.  No problem there.  Also checked adjustment in the pedal, right on the money

Then put everything back together

So I had my wife pump and hold the brakes whild I cracked a bleeder to see if there was any pressure  =  nothing.  And none of the caliper pistons move whatsoever

I can even slightly rattle all of the brake pads, (disc brakes should always have a slight drag on the rotor) which tells me no pressure is in the brake line. 

So I checked for air in the lines again, none.  No leaks anywhere in the system

This is blowing me away:  I have never run into such a brake problem.  Even a brake system with some air in it will eventually build pressure when the pedal is pumped, although mushy at the pedal

That being said,I beleive the problem with the master cylinder (New).  But it bench bleeds great, no problem

I even started the engine to get the power booster in play, no change

Linkback: https://forum.e-bodies.org/wheels-tires-brakes-suspension-and-steering/12/powerdisc-brakes-dissapointments-continue/17596/

Offline edison1970

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Re: Power/Disc Brakes Dissapointments continue
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2020, 05:46:55 PM »
Have you tried loosening the brake line to the caliper to see if fluid is getting that far? If no fluid comes out, crack one of the lines open at the proportioning valve.

Offline JonH

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Re: Power/Disc Brakes Dissapointments continue
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2020, 06:56:37 PM »
Get another master cyl. it is obviously not moving any fluid.

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Re: Power/Disc Brakes Dissapointments continue
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2020, 06:56:37 PM »

Offline GoodysGotaCuda

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Re: Power/Disc Brakes Dissapointments continue
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2020, 08:20:44 PM »
Sounds like you have a junk master cylinder to me.
1972 Barracuda - 5.7L Hemi/T56 Magnum
1976 Dodge D100 - Warlock - 360/727
2016 Subaru WRX - Tuned for E30 [98oct]

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Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: Power/Disc Brakes Dissapointments continue
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2020, 10:16:36 PM »
Just to be sure ... all of te bleed screws are poisitioned at te top of te caliper not bottom correct ?
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Offline 70 Challenger Lover

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Re: Power/Disc Brakes Dissapointments continue
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2020, 04:57:19 AM »
I agree on the master. They are inexpensive.

Offline torredcuda

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Re: Power/Disc Brakes Dissapointments continue
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2020, 05:48:48 AM »
If the master is pumping fluid when you bench bleed it then I would assume it is working, are you sure the pedal and rod are hooked up and the correct length to engage the master enough? Crack the fitting at the master and see if fluid is coming out then the proportioning valve and down the line.

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Re: Power/Disc Brakes Dissapointments continue
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2020, 05:48:48 AM »

Offline RUNCHARGER

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Re: Power/Disc Brakes Dissapointments continue
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2020, 07:58:36 AM »
Like Chryco says where are the bleed screws located?
Sheldon

Offline JonH

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Re: Power/Disc Brakes Dissapointments continue
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2020, 07:48:50 PM »
Did this issue ever get resolved?

Offline docmel

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Re: Power/Disc Brakes Dissapointments continue
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2020, 10:07:09 AM »
Sorry for the delay;

Heres the final deal and solution, but first some background info

The kit was ordered online, and had some seriuos instruction and parts included short comings  (Ill post about that in a sperate post)

The problem was in the adjustment made on the pushrod on the engine side of the pushrod (not the adjustment on the brake pedal side)

This adjustment was done IAW instructions, but apparently was not correct.  I lengtened the adjustment, and bingo, had brakes, no probs

The whole prob with this kit is that it was apparently cobbled together with parts that are used in multiple applications.  I have heard this is somewhat common in many conversion kits.  Of course, the kit said  for 71 E body specifically

Offline MoparLeo

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Re: Power/Disc Brakes Dissapointments continue
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2020, 03:31:40 PM »
This is a perfect illustration of the difference between doing business with a brick and mortar store and doing your business online. Online sellers are strictly as a whole only sales motivated. They are in the business of selling parts only. Their customer base are mostly made up of Price shoppers. The other end of the spectrum, and quickly disappearing is the brick and mortar store who can't compete with the pricing of online sellers who have little to no overhead ( payroll, insurance, rent, training etc...) so their value to the customer is information, service. When you get your information from one source and spend your money with another source you can't expect the best outcome. How can the person/company who makes the $$ investment in his business and employees (training, benefits etc.)stay in business with this business model ? Remember what happened to all of the small town businesses when Walmart would come to town and undersell them ? The result was lower pricing, sometimes temporarily because when the competition is gone ( they went out of business) there is no motivation to discount anymore. There is less selection ( only one source now) Need information/help on that item that you bought ? Who is going to give it to you??
The internet is a 2 sided sword, great for the informed customer/business who doesn't need the information/service part of the purchase, but not for the person who has little/no experience with the items being purchased and needs that extra assistance that the parts sellers do not or can not  furnish because they themselves lack the ability to do so. In any business that is the difference between having just a front counter for sales and also having a backroom/shop to do the actual work.  Everything has a cost. There is a reason that their is a saying that goes " Price isn't everything"   You can't learn experience from a book. It is our own fault that things are the way they are because we are the ones making the decisions with our dollars.  Next time you shop for something, keep that in mind.
 Accept at least some of the responsibility.  Cheap is seldom economical...
« Last Edit: August 06, 2020, 05:26:36 PM by MoparLeo »
moparleo@hotmail.com  For professionally rebuilt door hinges...

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Re: Power/Disc Brakes Dissapointments continue
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2020, 03:31:40 PM »

Online Scooter

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Re: Power/Disc Brakes Dissapointments continue
« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2020, 05:01:26 PM »
Sorry for the delay;

Heres the final deal and solution, but first some background info

The kit was ordered online, and had some seriuos instruction and parts included short comings  (Ill post about that in a sperate post)

The problem was in the adjustment made on the pushrod on the engine side of the pushrod (not the adjustment on the brake pedal side)

This adjustment was done IAW instructions, but apparently was not correct.  I lengtened the adjustment, and bingo, had brakes, no probs

The whole prob with this kit is that it was apparently cobbled together with parts that are used in multiple applications.  I have heard this is somewhat common in many conversion kits.  Of course, the kit said  for 71 E body specifically

I feel ya. previous owner installed a similar rear disk "kit" on mine. The come to find out the calipers are off a 1985 Cadillac Eldorado and the rotors are off a 1979 Pontiac Trans Am.

Reminds me of that Johnny Cash song...



 :D

Offline JonH

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Re: Power/Disc Brakes Dissapointments continue
« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2020, 05:31:20 PM »
Sorry for the delay;

Heres the final deal and solution, but first some background info

The kit was ordered online, and had some seriuos instruction and parts included short comings  (Ill post about that in a sperate post)

The problem was in the adjustment made on the pushrod on the engine side of the pushrod (not the adjustment on the brake pedal side)

This adjustment was done IAW instructions, but apparently was not correct.  I lengtened the adjustment, and bingo, had brakes, no probs

The whole prob with this kit is that it was apparently cobbled together with parts that are used in multiple applications.  I have heard this is somewhat common in many conversion kits.  Of course, the kit said  for 71 E body specifically

Thank you for explaining! Too many threads are started and never finished with an end result. Many times I search, find a thread with the same issue I have, but there is never an explanation as to how it was resolved...

Offline JonH

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Re: Power/Disc Brakes Dissapointments continue
« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2020, 05:33:22 PM »
This is a perfect illustration of the difference between doing business with a brick and mortar store and doing your business online. Online sellers are strictly as a whole only sales motivated. They are in the business of selling parts only. Their customer base are mostly made up of Price shoppers. The other end of the spectrum, and quickly disappearing is the brick and mortar store who can't compete with the pricing of online sellers who have little to no overhead ( payroll, insurance, rent, training etc...) so their value to the customer is information, service. When you get your information from one source and spend your money with another source you can't expect the best outcome. How can the person/company who makes the $$ investment in his business and employees (training, benefits etc.)stay in business with this business model ? Remember what happened to all of the small town businesses when Walmart would come to town and undersell them ? The result was lower pricing, sometimes temporarily because when the competition is gone ( they went out of business) there is no motivation to discount anymore. There is less selection ( only one source now) Need information/help on that item that you bought ? Who is going to give it to you??

Well said! Exactly why I cringe every time someone says try Rock Auto, Summit Etc....
The internet is a 2 sided sword, great for the informed customer/business who doesn't need the information/service part of the purchase, but not for the person who has little/no experience with the items being purchased and needs that extra assistance that the parts sellers do not or can not  furnish because they themselves lack the ability to do so. In any business that is the difference between having just a front counter for sales and also having a backroom/shop to do the actual work.  Everything has a cost. There is a reason that their is a saying that goes " Price isn't everything"   You can't learn experience from a book. It is our own fault that things are the way they are because we are the ones making the decisions with our dollars.  Next time you shop for something, keep that in mind.
 Accept at least some of the responsibility.  Cheap is seldom economical...


Offline 340Challman

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Re: Power/Disc Brakes Dissapointments continue
« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2020, 05:43:03 PM »
Just to be sure ... all of te bleed screws are poisitioned at te top of te caliper not bottom correct ?

I have to do it. CP is your "H" key broke or is that Panamanian?  :waving:

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Re: Power/Disc Brakes Dissapointments continue
« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2020, 05:43:03 PM »

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