6.4 Ram Hemi

[Cudajason]

Do I have this right?  You can pick up a 392 6.4 Gen 3 out of a ram and switch the oil pan and front cover then treat it like a crate motor, using the mopar wire kit etc to drop it in my cuda?!?!?

I know there is more to it than that, but simplistically that will work?

I do understand that the ram 392 is less horsepower compared to the srt 392, but still rings in at 410 hp and 430 tq.

I assume i need to change the intake as the truck intake is different, but that would be an easy bolt on.

So what am I missing here or will that work.

The reason I am asking is I see low millage 392 ram engines for sale for under 1000 cad. Seems like a great starting place for a gen3 swap. 

[jimynick]

 

[JH27N0B]

I have a 6.4 Ram 2500 and a Scat Pack Challenger.
I haven't done a deep dive but my understanding is they are the same foundation, but from there were engineered for two very different applications.
Sort of like comparing a 440 used in a 70s motor home and a 440 used in a B or E body.
The truck 6.4 is designed for low end torque to facilitate pulling a trailer or loaded bed. Regular gas.  The LX car version is high HP, different torque curve, and higher compression requiring premium gas.
I'd need to do that deep dive to learn if bolting on different heads, a cam, pistons etc on a truck 6.4 is all needed to modify it to the HP specs or if it's more complicated.
Driving my truck and driving my Challenger you'd never think the engines are at all the same.

[74-5.7]

Simplistically yes that will work.
Realistically you will need to change the cam, intake manifold, delete the MDS system, and the front accessories cover.

The other parts you will need are: motor mounts, remote oil filter, exhaust manifolds or headers, hemi swap flex plate or flywheel and clutch according to what transmission you are using.

[Cudajason]

Thanks gents.

7 @74-5.7 why do you think I need to change the cam and delete the MDS system?  Are you thinking to get to the SRT HP level?

@JH27N0B interesting comment about how they feel different, I imagine the lower HP in the truck and the added weight would make a difference.

I wonder if the low end torque of the truck motor in the much lighter e-body, would not make for a very fun street car.  410 HP should also give you plenty of power on the street.

I like the idea of a crate motor, but man they are pricy.  I see two truck hemis advertised as low milage and running for less the $1000 CAD  That leaves an awful lot of money for upgrades compared to a crate motor at $11,100 CAD.

[HP2]

I would think if you didn't necessarily want a full blown SRT version,  the OEM truck version would still scoot an E body around pretty nicely. Since an E body is easily half the weight of a 3/4 ton truck, the torque curve would be a burnout machine. When used as a street  cruiser, not needing to spin it to 6500 for all 410 horses may also be a nice feature.

Now if you  want to race it or call it an SRT replacement, then I could see getting deeper into the engine to increase and stabilize the output.

[Bullitt-]

Thanks gents.

 why do you think I need to change the cam and delete the MDS system?

  I would want to delete MDS because of all the problems it can cause. 
Internet/ youtube full of info on the problems and the solution.
  First you need a good core that hasn't already been destroyed by failing lifters from the MDS

 https://youtu.be/9d6DzexdeeE?si=7pZ-mYXOMPjYTj2E&t=143

[JH27N0B]

I would think if you didn't necessarily want a full blown SRT version,  the OEM truck version would still scoot an E body around pretty nicely. Since an E body is easily half the weight of a 3/4 ton truck, the torque curve would be a burnout machine. When used as a street  cruiser, not needing to spin it to 6500 for all 410 horses may also be a nice feature.

I don't think the truck is twice the weight, when not driving with a loaded bed or trailer it's probably 50% more at most than an E body ~4000# vs ~6000# for the truck.  Which is still a significant weight difference.
Here is what AI says about the differences between the truck 6.4 and the HP 6.4:

The 6.4L Hemi engine has two main variants: one for trucks and one for cars/SUVs (often called the 392 Hemi). While both have the same displacement (6.4 liters), they are tuned differently for their respective applications. The truck version is detuned for durability and towing, producing 410 horsepower and 429 lb-ft of torque, while the car/SUV version delivers 485 horsepower and 475 lb-ft of torque, optimized for performance.
Here's a more detailed breakdown:
Truck Engine (Heavy-Duty/Towing):
Lowered Compression Ratio: Designed for lower-end power and towing capabilities, sacrificing some top-end performance.
Different Camshafts and Intakes: Optimized for low-end torque delivery.
Different Cylinder Heads: Often include upgraded aluminum heads for better heat management under heavy loads.
Heavy-Duty Design: Built with durability and longevity in mind for the rigors of truck duty.
Car/SUV Engine (392 Hemi - Performance):
Higher Horsepower and Torque: Focus on maximum horsepower and overall performance for sporty driving.
Revised Intake Manifold and Tuning: In some versions, a revised intake manifold and more aggressive tuning contribute to higher horsepower figures.
Potentially Different Heads: May have different head designs compared to the truck version, optimized for higher RPM performance.
Key Differences:
Power Output:
The car/SUV version generally has significantly more horsepower (around 485 vs 410) and torque.
Tuning Philosophy:
The truck engine is tuned for low-end power and durability, while the car/SUV version prioritizes high-end performance.
Intake Manifold Design:
Trucks often use a dual-runner intake manifold for optimized low-end and mid-range performance.
Head Design:
Truck engines may feature upgraded aluminum heads for better heat management under heavy loads.
Compression Ratio:
The truck engine might have a slightly lower compression ratio to accommodate towing and heavy-duty cycles.
Block Design:
While both blocks are 6.4L, the truck version may use a thicker block (Big Gas Engine or BGE) with increased cylinder wall strength.

[dodj]

The reason I am asking is I see low millage 392 ram engines for sale for under 1000 cad. Seems like a great starting place for a gen3 swap. 

Sure does...My 440 is getting pretty tired...or I'm used to it. A 392 swap sounds like an interesting project. Maybe we can do the same project at the same time. Although you do have more incentive to move more quickly than I do at the moment.
Does the 392 have the same small block bolt pattern for your tranny or would that be a custom piece?

[HP2]

GOtta admit I haven't driven a 3/4 gas truck so I don't have a personal frame of reference. My 1/2 ton '09 4x4 Laramie is 6500# as driven with a full tank of gas and me in it. I'll admit that is a highly optioned version, but put all the 3/4 ton drivetrain, cooling, and suspension in place and model to model, I bet a 3/4 ton is easily 7200# or more. 

My '74 Challenger is the heaviest Mopar car I have. Its been quite a while since I weighed it so I forget the exact figure, but I seem to recall it was 3600 and change, with a small block in it. I'd suspect Jason's Cuda is similar if not a hair lighter. I have seen some big block versions up in the 3800-4000 range.

I forget the exact engine in the Cuda, but I thinking its a smog era 360 with some bolt on goodies? Maybe 300 horses? A jump to 410 is going to make it feel like an entirely different car. Even if its a truck Hemi, it will pull better at higher rpm than that era of 360.

A cam change to eliminate the VVT and a different intake and I bet that otherwise stock 6.4 could see 425hp pretty easily. I see the capability of running junk gas in it at that level as a big benefit for a street driven cruiser.

Although I will admit, the vvt in my truck allows me to get 20+mpg on the highway when its unloaded. IMO, that's pretty freaking awesome. The best I ever got out of my '72 crew cab with a 440 and carb was high teens. My 390 horse 5.7 in the 6500# chassis also scoots along really nicely when you mash the pedal. I can always tell when my wife's been driving it because the mpg average drops to single digits.   

The new Hemis make easy power. I'm thinking about one for my next bracket car. As others have said, a top end and cam swap and your knocking on 500hp easily. All depends on  how much money you want to spend and how quickly you want the swap to be done.

[74-5.7]

Thanks gents.

7 @74-5.7 why do you think I need to change the cam and delete the MDS system?  Are you thinking to get to the SRT HP level?

The cam would be to get to the srt hp. The mds is just a problem. The other thing is will the MOPAR pcm for engine swap be programmed for the MDS?
The MDS delete is straight forward but you have to pull the heads to remove the lifters that deactivate and replace them with non MDS lifters.
I'm running a 5.7 out of a Durango it has the truck cam. Let me tell you what that thing can move, I don't know what actual top speed is on paper it should be 180mph, but with 3.91 in the rear a A518 transmission I hit 110mph 2800rpm and the thing was pulling strong and wanted to keep eating when I backed out of it. On the bottom end the get up and go is pretty good too.

@JH27N0B interesting comment about how they feel different, I imagine the lower HP in the truck and the added weight would make a difference.



I wonder if the low end torque of the truck motor in the much lighter e-body, would not make for a very fun street car.  410 HP should also give you plenty of power on the street.

I like the idea of a crate motor, but man they are pricy.  I see two truck hemis advertised as low milage and running for less the $1000 CAD  That leaves an awful lot of money for upgrades compared to a crate motor at $11,100 CAD.

[ec_co]

an in between cost option @ 4-7k can be found on eBay (salvage yard Charger/Challenger assemblies and some come with the tranny too).

Below, by default mine shows US stuff, but a quick search I'll give you some options up north

[RUNCHARGER]

I've been tossing around the idea of a 5.7 out of a pickup into an A-body. Apparently there are some sources for a harness kit to do it that won't break the bank. The engine in my 15Cram is 395HP, even that will make an E-body feel perky. I think you mounted an OD in your car already so I think what you are planning is plausable and shouldn't break the bank. I'm sure oilpans, engine mounts, PS mounts etc. will take thinking and work but that's what Hot Rodding is.

[Cudajason]

my 360 seems to be ok, for those that have seen my other post, but man I am still thinking about this option.

I just get the sense it will be more fun to drive.

Sure does...My 440 is getting pretty tired...or I'm used to it. A 392 swap sounds like an interesting project. Maybe we can do the same project at the same time. Although you do have more incentive to move more quickly than I do at the moment.
Does the 392 have the same small block bolt pattern for your tranny or would that be a custom piece?

@dodj that would be fun, but now I am not in any hurry, so....  yes the Gen 3 hemi has the same transmission bolt pattern as a LA small block. 

I forget the exact engine in the Cuda, but I thinking its a smog era 360 with some bolt on goodies? Maybe 300 horses? A jump to 410 is going to make it feel like an entirely different car. Even if its a truck Hemi, it will pull better at higher rpm than that era of 360.

A cam change to eliminate the VVT and a different intake and I bet that otherwise stock 6.4 could see 425hp pretty easily. I see the capability of running junk gas in it at that level as a big benefit for a street driven cruiser.

Although I will admit, the vvt in my truck allows me to get 20+mpg on the highway when its unloaded. IMO, that's pretty freaking awesome. The best I ever got out of my '72 crew cab with a 440 and carb was high teens. My 390 horse 5.7 in the 6500# chassis also scoots along really nicely when you mash the pedal. I can always tell when my wife's been driving it because the mpg average drops to single digits.   

The new Hemis make easy power. I'm thinking about one for my next bracket car. As others have said, a top end and cam swap and your knocking on 500hp easily. All depends on  how much money you want to spend and how quickly you want the swap to be done.

[/quote]

H @HP2 yeah, 1980 360 with the usual hop ups in my beast, 300 HP is probably not far off. so 410 HP I bet she would fly!!!

I heart no issues with the VVT maybe disable the MDS.  lots of research to do. this would be a street cruiser, not 500HP is probably over kill.
 

an in between cost option @ 4-7k can be found on eBay (salvage yard Charger/Challenger assemblies and some come with the tranny too).

Below, by default mine shows US stuff, but a quick search I'll give you some options up north

Yeah agreed, lots of options out there.  4-5 K is not bad, but man if you can pick up one for $1000 that is still 3K to make changes, new cam intake and you are still money ahead. 

I've been tossing around the idea of a 5.7 out of a pickup into an A-body. Apparently there are some sources for a harness kit to do it that won't break the bank. The engine in my 15Cram is 395HP, even that will make an E-body feel perky. I think you mounted an OD in your car already so I think what you are planning is plausable and shouldn't break the bank. I'm sure oilpans, engine mounts, PS mounts etc. will take thinking and work but that's what Hot Rodding is.

Yeah, I am running an OD, it is awesome the highway.  I do think you can make this swap work with out spending big dollars...if you find a good truck engine at the right price.  A new crate engine sounds nice, but man they are pricey.

I am going to put together a price list just for fun, but like I said, the 360 is still running, so I will just dream about this for now.

[ec_co]

FWIW the 5.7 Hemi can take the 392 cam for a nice little bump. In my 2010 Challenger I put in a 392 cam, HP springs and non MDS lifters, tuned out the MDS function as well. After a full Dyno tune it was putting out about 460 crank horsepower compared to 375 factory.