A/C Condenser question

[Duodec]

Every time I have an A/C question I'm not sure where to put it, so this time since its the condenser and attached externally, here we are.

The COndenser from my car was stored for decades and got banged and squished quite a bit.  Its still solid and doesn't leak (pressure tested) but its got so much fin damage that the 8+ hours I've spent with a fin rake and duckbill pliers got maybe half of it.  The fins are openeing up and are mostly still 'there' but its never going to look good.

Am I better off getting a new one?  How is the quality and fit of currently available condensers?  I know you can get higher efficiency units that are better for R134a but I'm probably sticking with R12.  I'm concerned about getting china-made low quality, or having significant fitment problems like the aftermarket heater cores and evaporators (even Mexican made ones).

Thanks for info.

[MoparLeo]

I would buy all new a/c components and specify where you want them made. Also go with the major a/c companies.
Quality is the deciding factor, not price.
 If you get good stuff to begin with, you will only buy it one time.

[blown motor]

I don't the level of show that your car is at. ie driver or one of three trailer queen. I'm going to with it not being a trailer queen.

I'm going to throw some stuff at you as food for thought. Please take it as just that. Where do you get the most enjoyment from your car? Driving it or looking at it? And if it's looking at it, do you open the hood every time you look at it? It sounds like the condenser is functional but not necessarily aesthetically pleasing. How much does that REALLY matter? I get where you're coming from. I have a 68 Charger that is gorgeous and a 74 Challenger that is not as gorgeous and I've debated many time doing a paint and body job on the Challenger so it looks as good as the Charger. But when I'm behind the wheel of either one, driving down the highway, none of that matters. I just love to drive them. At the end of the day the chips in the hood or the paint crack above the right rear wheel didn't matter, it was still had a great day. As I said, just food for thought. You do you.

[RUNCHARGER]

You don't want contamination in the system, I vote get a new one.

[Duodec]

I no longer have illusions about restoring the car to pristine condition, though I still want it to look nice.  I plan on getting it painted and proper body work done (some dents, very little rust in the rear quarters), but its going to be a driver.  Its a base model 318 auto.  I want to keep the factory A/C; its going to need a new compressor, receiver dryer, and the suction hose rebuilt (I got a nice discharge hose recently).

I am considering a parallel flow 'more efficient' style condenser reportedly made in USA and recommended for R134 (which benefits from that efficiency) even if I stick with R12 (which I have).  That won't look stock either.  But if I have to replace the condenser, the parallel flow unit costs close to the same as a tube and fin and would mean if I did have to fail down to R134A, I'd still have that advantage.

In this case though I'm less concerned about the fact that the view of the condenser through the grill is going to show some raggedy-ness, and more about the fact that there was enough fin damage/crush/bending (though no tube damage so far) that even after straightening everything out as well as I can, that the efficiency of the condenser has been reduced.  Airflow may be close to original but perhaps there's been separation of fins from tubes, or perhaps however they're attached can weaken the tubes when the fins are  broken away by squishing them or straightening them afterwards.

I was hoping someone had experience in that regard.

The parts that are remaining are going to be thoroughly flushed and cleaned, but its going to be a long time before the system is put together and I want to make sure I have the parts.  Cleaning up the fins on the evaporator so I can finish the A/C box subproject, and decided to check and work on the condenser at the same time. 

[blown motor]

You're working on a 71, yes? I have a condenser from a 74, not sure if they're the same but if you're interested we can pursue that. Maybe its better than what you're working with. I would get it pressure tested and it's yours for the cost of shipping. I also have some lines but again, I don't know if they're the same as a 71.

[EV2RTSE]

I'm in the same boat, I haven't pulled the trigger on one yet but I need to soon. IMO the one that Year One carries looks like it should be fine, I also came across this one made in the USA-

https://autoacsolutions.com/products/condensers/1971/1970-1971-dodge-challenger-1971-dodge-charger-1971-dodge-coronet-ac-condenser-and-drier/

Looks like it's good quality but the darker finish on the one from Year One is probably closer to the original, if that's important

[Duodec]

I can't speak to originality but the condenser that was in my '71 (which I bought used in 1980) was dull silver.  No sign of paint like the radiator.  The car was painted white before I got it (over the original GF3 green); there's some white overspray on the condenser but no green.  But who knows what that car went through before I got it; the A/C was already not working due to a missing discharge hose.

In addition to the longer-term reliability of my very used unit I'm also concerned about fitment.  I have seen multiple stories/vids about people using aftermarket evaporators and having to tweak them and the A/C box to make them fit, and having the two connectors coming through the firewall at odd angles, and my own experience with aftermarket heater cores was just as bad.  If aftermarket condensers have the same issues then I'm going to make extra effort to clean up and fix up my stock unit.

[Rich G.]

I got a condenser from classic air for my 71 cuda years ago and it looks pretty much like the original one.

[Duodec]

I got a condenser from classic air for my 71 cuda years ago and it looks pretty much like the original one.

And fits like original?  Awesome news if so.

Thanks!

[JH27N0B]

When I had the AC restored and reinstalled on my Challenger convertible 6 or 7 years ago, a new condenser was installed.  The old one was pretty tired looking and no thought was given to trying to restore it.  I don't think the new one looked very different than the original one, but the shop tossed the original one I'd provided them, so I couldn't compare them side by side.
You can see mine at MCACN as my car is scheduled to be there this weekend.

[bdschnei]

R134 isn't more efficient than R12. If anything it's a little less efficient since it runs at slightly higher pressures when the system is charged correctly. The change from R12 to R134 was made in the 80's strictly due to government environmental mandates.

You mentioned you have R12. Unless you're sure of it's origin be careful that it's really what it claims to be. Since R12 was outlawed 30 years ago, most of what you'll find on the "market" is counterfeit. I've heard horror stories of explosive gasses being used in these cocktails. True R12, if you can still find it, is probably going for hundreds of dollars a pound... You'll likely have a hard time finding a reputable AC shop that will go anywhere near that stuff. Too high a risk of contamination. So if you want to use your own R12 you'll need your own AC charging equipment including a vacuum pump to evacuate the system prior to charging.

Not trying to scare you, just pointing out the risks...

My advise would be all new AC components and charge with R134.  (Although even R134 is currently being mandated out of existence)
That way you can safely charge the system and not have to worry about what happens down the road if you have problems.

[Duodec]

I am certain of my R12.  It was all purchased in the '80s and early '90s before the draconian restrictions came into play, or the license to purchase requirement.  I'm also stocking up on R134A for the newer cars; I'm not interested in dealing with the exorbitant cost of their new miracle replacement stuff or paying stupid prices for R134A after they forbid manufacture.

I read plenty about R134A as a replacement in an R12 systems (fully flushed and cleaned and new proper o-rings, and ideally an expansion valve with the correct orifice size) through the years; it can work because the mineral oil used with R12 has penetrated the inner layers of the rubber hose sections and provided much of the capability of barrier hose.  But you have to get all of the free mineral oil out of the system, and the R134a will still very slowly leak out over extended time.  Its not real barrier hose...

Also you need to charge by weight, the sight glass can't be used because getting to the point there is no bubble or foaming means you are overcharged with R134A.  In an R12 designed system in general R134a won't provide as much delta-T from ambient to cooled as the original R12.  The recommended change to help with that is a more efficient condenser (serpentine or parallel flow); with that performance can match or slightly exceed that with R12, depending on the parts and efficiencies.

Since I need to replace or rebuild the RV2 compressor, and those have gotten quite expensive, its possible I may move to a Sanden type; if that happens then of course there will be new hoses, so may as well go to R134a with a parallel flow condenser (as long as they actually fit like they claim).  RV2s work with R134a but they're not ideal.  But for now the plan is still to go original and R12 and so the questions about my condenser's usability after considerable fin straightening.

Thanks for responding!

[Duodec]

You're working on a 71, yes? I have a condenser from a 74, not sure if they're the same but if you're interested we can pursue that. Maybe its better than what you're working with. I would get it pressure tested and it's yours for the cost of shipping. I also have some lines but again, I don't know if they're the same as a 71.

Thanks for responding; I'll take a look at the references I have but I only have the factory parts guide for '70-71 and the aftermarket vendors only sold the tubing and metal ends; you had to put together your own hose out of the components.   I think if I can't use the original condenser despite it holding pressure, I'm better off with a new unit (as long as they actually fit).