What defines a rebody ??

[anlauto]

You've described 1000's of cars, likely tens of 1000's of cars if you include other brands out there that have had similar repairs....I think you're over thinking it....just do whatever it takes to get the car back on the road so someone can enjoy it again.

[HP2]

I know this subject can go off in bad directions and that's not what I'm looking for... Is there a "line in the sand" that actually defines a rebody ?? Or is that where the problem lies ?? I'm not talking about the obvious scenario where the whole car is restamped without a single original piece...
   I'm asking questions like :
How much of an original vehicle must be there before the flag goes up ??
I've seen restos where pretty much the whole vehicle is replaced except for the cowl area of the numbers and not been called a rebody ?
And in that case just how much "original" metal needs to be there around those numbers ??
Like I've said, not trying to start a  or just trying to figure out if there's actually a set of guidelines for this and if not how is that even possible in this day and age??  Technically,wouldn't that leave too much open for interpretation for any major resto project ??

I think the bolded part is why this is a topic that generates a lot of opinions...there is no line to define this. Obviously the more original metal the better and when this comes to highly pedigreed cars, is a big influence on value.

[MoparLeo]

I think the key word is " disclosure." Then let the market determine the value.
Just like when buying a home. The owner should disclose any unseen major repairs or problems.
Termites, rotten studs, foundation problems. etc... these things would all affect the final selling price and no surprises to the new owner.

[YellowThumper]

My issue with "rebody" is that regardless of the current owners intention. Proper because it is their car the way they want it or not, the real problem lies when it changes hands.
You rebody,  you sell with full disclosure. They purchas knowing this, they sell possibly disclosing the restamp. More than likely they do not.
Why? Because they can end up getting significant more $$$ fore it. Along with overtly being shielded from the fraud liability. They then can claim being the victim from you.
Unless you have an iron clad written document stating this, you can be on the hook many years later.
Never worth it IMHOP.

[lahatte]

the real problem lies when it changes hands.

That's why, in my case, I would want to stamp "REBODY" next to the sequence numbers on the body. That would make deception more difficult.

In my case I have had particular online expert "VIN police" try and rape me over what I have described that I might want to do, claiming I am some kind of violent criminal, scammer, etc. So weird, and frankly ignorant in my opinion.

[anlauto]

the real problem lies when it changes hands.

That's why, in my case, I would want to stamp "REBODY" next to the sequence numbers on the body. That would make deception more difficult.

In my case I have had particular online expert "VIN police" try and rape me over what I have described that I might want to do, claiming I am some kind of violent criminal, scammer, etc. So weird, and frankly ignorant in my opinion.

If you want to stamp "REBODY" next to the number, then why swap the numbers at all ? If the number on the dash doesn't match the number on the cowl, then the answer is pretty obvious, isn't it ?

[70vert]

I think "re-body" is a poor choice in term. If you want/need to replace all the sheet metal, there should be no issue with that (agree that disclosure is expected, and buyers should be required a fact statement). But if you are taking a simpleton vehicle and replacing the VIN, Fender Tag, and restamping the cowl etc. with items from a different potentially high-end model then I think that is illegal. Even disclosing that info does not get you off the hook IMHO. Kinda like writing Babe Ruth's name on a baseball and then saying it is the real-deal rarity.

Maybe I miss-understand the term re-body??

[lahatte]

If you want to stamp "REBODY" next to the number, then why swap the numbers at all ? If the number on the dash doesn't match the number on the cowl, then the answer is pretty obvious, isn't it ?

In my case I had replaced the sequence numbers on the body years ago, before I had been made aware of the issue. Both are 71 383 cuda bodies.

But yes, I wondered as well about just removing the sequence numbers from the body all together. The only reason I can think of for having the sequence number swapped on the body to match the VIN is for any future theft issues, as it was intended originally.

I'm still trying to glean insights and opinions.

[lahatte]

But if you are taking a simpleton vehicle and replacing the VIN, Fender Tag, and restamping the cowl etc. with items from a different potentially high-end model then I think that is illegal. Even disclosing that info does not get you off the hook IMHO. Kinda like writing Babe Ruth's name on a baseball and then saying it is the real-deal rarity.

I think this issue does not quite fit that analogy. It is a fact that Chrysler built a car with a particular VIN that had particular options. That VIN was conceived of one time. So, if a car exists with that VIN, it is still the only one.

But to your point, add the word "fake" to the baseball and I think you would have an equivalent analogy. It's still a perfectly usable baseball, like a rebody car is a perfectly useable car.

So then it might be asked, why not just build a clone or tribute using some other unrelated car/VIN? I don't know, except that Chrysler did create a vehicle described by the VIN in question. Might someone consider the VIN the "car"? The car's "soul", so to speak? It seems that many people do.

[torredcuda]

If you want to stamp "REBODY" next to the number, then why swap the numbers at all ? If the number on the dash doesn't match the number on the cowl, then the answer is pretty obvious, isn't it ?

In my case I had replaced the sequence numbers on the body years ago, before I had been made aware of the issue. Both are 71 383 cuda bodies.

But yes, I wondered as well about just removing the sequence numbers from the body all together. The only reason I can think of for having the sequence number swapped on the body to match the VIN is for any future theft issues, as it was intended originally.

I'm still trying to glean insights and opinions.

The two bodies are the same, I don`t think they were "created" for any specific model/option car, they were assigned that when stamped,  although some models did get extra reinforcements on them.  Does anyone know at what point the cowl and radiator supports got the vin stampings in them - before or after the unibody was assembled? The ONLY reason for partial vin stampings on bodies, engines and transmissions is for theft deterrent/identification purposes, otherwise it`s technically no different than swapping bumpers. The issue when it comes to old cars is originality but once it`s restored whether just a repaint or every nut/bolt/body panel rotiserie job it`s no longer original anyway, right?

[Filthy Filbert]

Rebody:  Fraudulently transferring JUST the VIN tags and stamps from one car to another in order to pass off the car as "original"

Restoration:  Replacing any rusty panels, even if it is ALL of them, with reproduction or original panels from donor cars, and transferring the original numbers onto the new metal.


Gray area--what's the difference in cutting apart a fully rust free car and transferring each panel onto the original rust bucket, one panel at a time, so that the end result is that 100% of the replacement metal came from the donor car, and 100% of the original car is replaced, and simply transferring the numbers/stamps?   Taking a car apart just to weld the same panels right back together seems silly.     So in my opinion, the gray area simply comes down to Honesty. 

Besides, The chances of an honest person actually finding a 100% rust free donor car that's not a desirable combo, and using it to restore a car that is desirable, and all the replacement metal comes from that one car...are slim to none, and not something I'm going to worry about when it comes to "Gray areas of definition of Re-body"

[lahatte]

The two bodies are the same, I don`t think they were "created" for any specific model/option car, they were assigned that when stamped,  although some models did get extra reinforcements on them.

That's a good point. A body is assembled without any VIN, though in the case of e-bodies, cars intended for big blocks got extra reinforcements, and those intended for 440 and HEMI got thicker frame rails, as I understand it.

But, two 383 cuda bodies would be no different prior to having a sequence number stamped on.

[lahatte]

Rebody:  Fraudulently transferring JUST the VIN tags and stamps from one car to another in order to pass off the car as "original"

That's not really true. "Fraud" is intent to deceive by not disclosing some information. A rebody that is advertised as such is not "fraud".

[70vert]

Rebody:  Fraudulently transferring JUST the VIN tags and stamps from one car to another in order to pass off the car as "original"

That's not really true. "Fraud" is intent to deceive by not disclosing some information. A rebody that is advertised as such is not "fraud".

Not positive on the fraud aspect, but pretty sure most DMV's would not allow that (likely confiscate & prosecute).

[lahatte]

Not positive on the fraud aspect, but pretty sure most DMV's would not allow that (likely confiscate & prosecute).

Apparently how a state considers it varies by state.

The typical "fraud" in this regard is when a vehicle is stolen and legit numbers put onto it in order to pass it off as not stolen. See the Halicki's original "Gone In Sixty Seconds", for example.