Anybody know this BS23V0B B5/B5 'Cuda?

[benlavigne]

I went to see this beautiful 'Cuda last week for an insurance appraisal (my new gig, I'll post some interesting E-bodies as I come acrss them!). Very nice restoration on what was described as a low-mileage ex-drag car (Hence the ''date-correct'' drivetrain...).
Has a convincing dealer invoice (and a repro fender tag) to back up the equipment, Shaker, front elastomeric bumper (rear one added), Track Pak, etc...
I could not find any traces on the web, auction results, etc... Anybody know of it?
Thanks!

Ben

[anlauto]

Nice looking car, similar to the one I restored a few years back..Is it "new" to Canada ?

[benlavigne]

FYI: FAKE window sticker & FAKE fender tag - both with ERRORS

Dan, As I wrote, I thought the window sticker was convincing, but I've learned to ask the experts, as anything is possible now.. someone went to a lot of trouble to age it, etc!
As far as fender tags, again, these are too new to be originals, which would have been tossed in the trash when the car was supposedly turned into a drag car...
I do not have any ties to that car, it is not a pre-purchase inspection, the current owner has no clue of correctness or not, I showed him about engine numbers, etc... just tought it looked nice... was bought from a local classic car dealer known not to ask too many questions when he buys cars.

Is it a question of option availability at a certain date? or some not available in combination with another?
Thanks again for helping set the records straight!

Ben

[6bblgt]

with NO authentic factory documentation or restoration documentation one could assume it was a Midwest rust bucket & original green on green non-SHAKER automatic VS. assuming it was close to the current configuration

[anlauto]

I see Ben has removed the picture, but what makes you think the window sticker is not real Dan ?

[6bblgt]

this is the rabbit hole lack of REAL documentation causes - its value for current and future owners - has the new info changed your opinion @benlavigne ?

what was this car in excess of a 440+6 'cuda when new?   

@anlauto  for starters: the dealer, dealer code & zone don't match on the window sticker - someone was guessing

[anlauto]

......well that might be a good indication 

[moparx5]

man !!!! you guys are on it !!!!!
think i'll keep my paperwork hidden
glad i joined this site it's a close race with po#%n
not sure about the language boundaries' here yet
lol
fake or real it sure looks like a nice car, but making a fake car pretend to be real,,,,,, sucks and lame

[benlavigne]

this is the rabbit hole lack of REAL documentation causes - its value for current and future owners - has the new info changed your opinion @benlavigne ?

what was this car in excess of a 440+6 'cuda when new?   

@anlauto  for starters: the dealer, dealer code & zone don't match on the window sticker - someone was guessing

Dan, I am learning to question everything now, so that is why I asked, since the car did not have a broadcast sheet and the fender tags were too new to be original.
Someone went through a lot of trouble to fake that invoice.. It would be too bad if the car was indeed what it is said to be and this would cast doubt on it's legitimacy... Keep that VIN in your files in case someone else asks about it!
The current owner did not care about numbers or if the car was 100% correct or even numbers-matching when he bought it, he hadn't even looked at the invoice in the accompanying folder before I showed it to him, he just thought it looked good... Unfortunately, a lot of the cars we love are sold through dealers and auction houses to people who are not experts or even care about those details, like us numbers-nuts do...
Even without proper documentation, there will always be a market for this type of cars.

Ben

[6bblgt]

nothing is difficult, hard to come by or expensive as far as FAKE documentation is concerned - remember: one of the hemi'cuda convertibles is 100% recreated content

some of the "rabbit hole" problems:
when someone is willing to spend $100K on a rotisserie restored car that may or may NOT have any "collectable" value
when replacement value of said car is $100K - because whether it was a 318 VS. 440+6 car new, the restoration/repair costs are the same
if the car is "worth" more $$, then the insurance premiums are more $$
as the "baby boomers" age, the market for these "collectable" cars is shrinking & values of the routine/common "collectable" cars declines

for example:
this car hammered SOLD recently for $100K +10% in fees    nothing is "wrong" with the fender tag, but I'd say it is a suspected reproduction & has been on the car since at least 2003
the broadcast sheet is a recent addition to the car's documentation package (some won't buy a car without one), the FAKE broadcast sheet is full of ERRORS and aged/distressed to appear authentic   

[6bblgt]

..... Even without proper documentation, there will always be a market for this type of cars. .....

I wish I had a crystal ball, but I'd bet in the near future (~10 years) that market ($100K garage queens) will be less than $.50 on the current dollar 

[anlauto]

..... Even without proper documentation, there will always be a market for this type of cars. .....

I agree with this statement....there's an ass for every seat...even a 1971 Hemicuda convertible built from scratch....someone will buy it, maybe not for $3.5 mil, but it will still fetch seven figures

[benlavigne]

..... Even without proper documentation, there will always be a market for this type of cars. .....

I wish I had a crystal ball, but I'd bet in the near future (~10 years) that market ($100K garage queens) will be less than $.50 on the current dollar 

And I'll bet that if it happens, a lot of the people who would not touch them now, would be happy to buy them at those prices and drive them...

Ben

[benlavigne]

nothing is difficult, hard to come by or expensive as far as FAKE documentation is concerned - remember: one of the hemi'cuda convertibles is 100% recreated content

some of the "rabbit hole" problems:
when someone is willing to spend $100K on a rotisserie restored car that may or may NOT have any "collectable" value
when replacement value of said car is $100K - because whether it was a 318 VS. 440+6 car new, the restoration/repair costs are the same
if the car is "worth" more $$, then the insurance premiums are more $$
as the "baby boomers" age, the market for these "collectable" cars is shrinking & values of the routine/common "collectable" cars declines

for example:
this car hammered SOLD recently for $100K +10% in fees    nothing is "wrong" with the fender tag, but I'd say it is a suspected reproduction & has been on the car since at least 2003
the broadcast sheet is a recent addition to the car's documentation package (some won't buy a car without one), the FAKE broadcast sheet is full of ERRORS and aged/distressed to appear authentic   

Even a neophyte like me can see that the font, spacing, etc... do not look right on either piece.. Plus it looks odd that A codes do not start on the first box on the left?

Ben

[750-h2]

Not an expert here by any means, but comparing that build sheet to my sheet [70 Challenger build date C09] it would appear that the sequence # on that build sheet is way too high for the 829 build date of that car?  Question,  does the sequence # go back to zero when a new model year starts up on the assembly line? If not maybe his sequence # makes sense?