Recommendation Requested

[427_racer]

@427_racer   I ran across this 71-restomod 4-sale and thought about this post
... outfitted about the way I would want one

https://www.americansteelclassiccars.com/vehicles/173/1971-plymouth-barracuda

Thanks for sharing, love the B5 blue.

[70_440-6Cuda]

Well, I am no expert but here is my 2 cents having gone through this exercise not too long ago.  I think pretty much any V8 combination is a pretty safe bet from a reliability standpoint - none of them a very complicated, maybe just some more nuanced than others.  I had a '69 charger with a 440-6 when I was young and dumb and that thing was bullet proof reliable - started and ran EVERY time.

I would start with identifying your budget since that will have the biggest impact on your choices.  Next identify your priorities for what you are looking for - resale value / originality / numbers matching / year / engine choice etc etc.  When I started looking for an e-body I knew I wanted a '70 or '71 Barracuda and that was as far as I got.  I came across a 440 6 barrel 'Cuda that was complete and driving, but very unoriginal and a 1990s era restomod.  I though it was a fair price considering all the cars I had looked at and bought it.  2 years later I am in a completely different mindset and probably would have purchased something different for several reasons.  I was able to get the broadcast sheet for my car and decided I wanted to bring the car back to as close to factory as possible.  Along the way I have changed my approach several times, and have finally settled on building the car to as close to factory as possible with the exception of building a 500+ HP 440, headers / exhaust, an overdrive transmission and putting some wider tires in the back because I want to enjoy driving it.  Since the engine is not original I do not think it will matter, and the rest can all be swapped back to original as bolt in parts.

In the end, I decided for me matching numbers originality is not that important, my priorities are a car that is factory original in appearance for interior and exterior (no aftermarket gauges or seats, original exterior trim and emblems, etc) and an engine with a big cam, a nasty exhaust note and is stop light to stop light fast and fun.

I come across A LOT of cars that fit the bill AFTER I purchased my current car, which would ultimately be less expensive than my build, but I am in too far now.  Me personally, I would opt for a 440-6 or 426 tribute that has a built engine and looks right.  They are out there, you just have to be patient.  If I did it all over again, I would have a $110K budget, take my time to find a well done 440-6 or Hemi tribute, and ask around here for opinions when you find something of interest, see it in person and / or get an inspection by someone reputable.

There was a matching numbers '71 340-6 4 speed car that was being offered for $110K that I had considered, but waited to long and it sold.  I had a '69 Barracuda 340 4 speed car in high school and it was plenty of fun but not sure how the larger e-body would compare with a 340.

Like anything else, be patient, there are cars out there.  I feel like while often it seems people are overpaying for e-bodies, the price never seems to go down so it is a pretty safe bet unless it is priced in outer space.  It all boils down to your budget, listing out the most important things for you personally and what you are willing to compromise (ie a '71 that looks original, but a 340 vs 440).

[427_racer]

Well, I am no expert but here is my 2 cents having gone through this exercise not too long ago.  I think pretty much any V8 combination is a pretty safe bet from a reliability standpoint - none of them a very complicated, maybe just some more nuanced than others.  I had a '69 charger with a 440-6 when I was young and dumb and that thing was bullet proof reliable - started and ran EVERY time.

I would start with identifying your budget since that will have the biggest impact on your choices.  Next identify your priorities for what you are looking for - resale value / originality / numbers matching / year / engine choice etc etc.  When I started looking for an e-body I knew I wanted a '70 or '71 Barracuda and that was as far as I got.  I came across a 440 6 barrel 'Cuda that was complete and driving, but very unoriginal and a 1990s era restomod.  I though it was a fair price considering all the cars I had looked at and bought it.  2 years later I am in a completely different mindset and probably would have purchased something different for several reasons.  I was able to get the broadcast sheet for my car and decided I wanted to bring the car back to as close to factory as possible.  Along the way I have changed my approach several times, and have finally settled on building the car to as close to factory as possible with the exception of building a 500+ HP 440, headers / exhaust, an overdrive transmission and putting some wider tires in the back because I want to enjoy driving it.  Since the engine is not original I do not think it will matter, and the rest can all be swapped back to original as bolt in parts.

In the end, I decided for me matching numbers originality is not that important, my priorities are a car that is factory original in appearance for interior and exterior (no aftermarket gauges or seats, original exterior trim and emblems, etc) and an engine with a big cam, a nasty exhaust note and is stop light to stop light fast and fun.

I come across A LOT of cars that fit the bill AFTER I purchased my current car, which would ultimately be less expensive than my build, but I am in too far now.  Me personally, I would opt for a 440-6 or 426 tribute that has a built engine and looks right.  They are out there, you just have to be patient.  If I did it all over again, I would have a $110K budget, take my time to find a well done 440-6 or Hemi tribute, and ask around here for opinions when you find something of interest, see it in person and / or get an inspection by someone reputable.

There was a matching numbers '71 340-6 4 speed car that was being offered for $110K that I had considered, but waited to long and it sold.  I had a '69 Barracuda 340 4 speed car in high school and it was plenty of fun but not sure how the larger e-body would compare with a 340.

Like anything else, be patient, there are cars out there.  I feel like while often it seems people are overpaying for e-bodies, the price never seems to go down so it is a pretty safe bet unless it is priced in outer space.  It all boils down to your budget, listing out the most important things for you personally and what you are willing to compromise (ie a '71 that looks original, but a 340 vs 440).

Appreciate this write-up. Our priorities and budget are very similar except I'm pretty dead set on a 71.

Have you had the opportunity to drive a 340 or Hemi? And if so, how would you compare the driving experiences to the 440-6?

I'd kind of had my heart set on a Hemi tribute, but recently been thinking more about the 440-6 in terms of driveability and fun on the street with the lower power band. 

[70_440-6Cuda]

Again, I am no expert so others may have better opinions.  For me, a good ol' classic V8 is a pretty reliable engine in general so for me reliability is in the build and set up.  Yes, multiple carburetors can make maintenance a little more involved, but in my mind any engine - Hemi, 440-6, 340 4 bbl, 318 can be as reliable or problematic as the other depending on set up.  If you are talking about a 100% stock engine, I would expect all things being equal reliability would not be an issue (I have only owned a 340 4bbl, 440 4 bbl and 440 6bbl and all were dead reliable, but they were also built well and all of the bugs and gremlins sorted)

As for driving experience, I have only driven a Hemi car once or twice, and that was long ago and not stock, but I did not find it drove any different than any other big block car with the exception of putting you back in the seat in a way only a Hemi can.

I would guess the biggest thing would be if the car has power steering or not - the big block is significantly heavier so that can certainly make a difference in slow speed driving.

Me personally, I like the 440 because it is the largest displacement engine and unique in the 3x2 carb set up, but that is just personal preference.

I would honestly go for a '70 or '71 Hemi or 440-6 tribute car that was already done.  I would want it to have a rallye dash, preferably 4 speed (but auto would do) and Dana rear and a color I like.

Think about how you will be using the car - I plan to drive mine locally around town to a cars and coffee, or a weekend lunch somewhere.  I am in Southern CA where we generally have good weather almost year round so I don't need AC.   My feeling is any '60s or '70s muscle car is going to drive similarly - moderate to poor handling and braking, too much power and few modern interior amenities such as AC or a great sound system.

If better handling and braking are important, or you want modern convenience and comforts (bluetooth, AC) then a restomod would best suit your search.  I know for me, I do not want a restomod with bigger brakes that require aftermarket wheels and interior upgrades making the look different than original, but those are my priorities and I just know ahead of time I have to remember what it was like in high school driving those vintage cars - more distance to the car in front, no blasting through the canyon twisties like I can with my sons Golf.

Point is no matter what engine / transmission combination you choose, reliability will be subject to the quality of the build, and drivability will be pretty equal among models - a mix of raw muscle car power, heavy steering, and an engaging but somewhat unforgiving ride—true to its era.

Good Luck!!

[427_racer]

Thanks 70_440-6Cuda, appreciate the time you put into the write-up.

I should probably look for power steering if a get a big block, that's a good recommendation. Otherwise part of the appeal to me is having the driving experience from the early 70s, so I'm ok with poor handling and braking. I can easily accommodate that with my driving style.

I've had fast cars (10-11 second), this one will just be a cruiser. Other than blasting through 1-2 gear every once in a while I'll be happy just listening to the lope and smelling the gas and burnt rubber.

Manual trans would be my preference, but as long as I have another manual trans car in the garage I might be willing to entertain having an auto. I'll see what's available when I start looking in earnest, hopefully this spring.

[moonshine_mike]

I own four Cudas most are 1970. They are all 4 speeds. The engines are 383, 340-6,440-6, Hemi. The diffs are 3.23(340-6),3.55(383),3.54(440-6), 4.10(Hemi).
By far my favorite driver is the 340-6. Things are easily accessible, and easy to play within the engine compartment. So I have no issues with servicing myself. I have found the OEM six pack to be way easier to work with then most people warn about. It also feels easier to drive and cruise in. 
Here are some things that I find personally enjoyable:
-Power Steering (three of four have this)
-Electronic ignition (all four have this added)
-A833 4 speed (two have 23 spline, two have 18 spline)

Here are some of the things I find as a drawback:
-Working on a Hemi.. There is no space to do anything.(try to take a valve cover off)
-Hemi parts cost.. Even the dust on the engine is three times the price
-4.10 diff. The engine just revs too high and load even at 50mph.

Extra point to the 426 Hemi Cuda, as nothing sounds like a well tuned hemi/exhaust, simply in a class by itself.

Hope this helps, its just my opinion.
I would go with the 340 (any carb), A833, 3.55

[70_440-6Cuda]

@moonshine_mike "even the dust is 3x as expensive"

Hilarious!  Was worth the read just for that.

Great info from someone that can compare several models.... Although I just decided to go 4.10 in my Dana  

[427_racer]

I own four Cudas most are 1970. They are all 4 speeds. The engines are 383, 340-6,440-6, Hemi. The diffs are 3.23(340-6),3.55(383),3.54(440-6), 4.10(Hemi).
By far my favorite driver is the 340-6. Things are easily accessible, and easy to play within the engine compartment. So I have no issues with servicing myself. I have found the OEM six pack to be way easier to work with then most people warn about. It also feels easier to drive and cruise in. 
Here are some things that I find personally enjoyable:
-Power Steering (three of four have this)
-Electronic ignition (all four have this added)
-A833 4 speed (two have 23 spline, two have 18 spline)

Here are some of the things I find as a drawback:
-Working on a Hemi.. There is no space to do anything.(try to take a valve cover off)
-Hemi parts cost.. Even the dust on the engine is three times the price
-4.10 diff. The engine just revs too high and load even at 50mph.

Extra point to the 426 Hemi Cuda, as nothing sounds like a well tuned hemi/exhaust, simply in a class by itself.

Hope this helps, its just my opinion.
I would go with the 340 (any carb), A833, 3.55

This is great, thank you. 4 Cudas, lucky guy! Even the dust costs 3x, that's funny stuff.

I've read elsewhere that the 340s are easy to own and drive. Ego and vanity get in the way and push me towards BB cars.

Is the 440-6 carb set up easy to tune, similar to the 340-6?

Power steering looking close to being in the "must have" column. There was no electric ignition from the factory, correct?

[RUNCHARGER]

No factory installed electronic ignition in 1970. 6 bbls are just as easy to tune as a 4 bbl IMO. You have 3 needle and jets that could clog instead of 2 and you have to make sure the linkage is adjusted correctly (absolutely no big deal) and that's about it. I really like 340's and 360's in the lighter A-body. I know all the 340 cars run 11 second quarter miles on the internet but I much prefer the 440 torque in the heavier E bodies and I think they fill up the engine bay better than a small block as well as look a lot cleaner than the Gen III Hemis, but that's my personal preference. The smallblocks have about a 100lb weight advantage over a 440 but no one runs iron heads, intakes, WP housings and exhaust manifolds anymore and that takes care of that.

[427_racer]

No factory installed electronic ignition in 1970. 6 bbls are just as easy to tune as a 4 bbl IMO. You have 3 needle and jets that could clog instead of 2 and you have to make sure the linkage is adjusted correctly (absolutely no big deal) and that's about it. I really like 340's and 360's in the lighter A-body. I know all the 340 cars run 11 second quarter miles on the internet but I much prefer the 440 torque in the heavier E bodies and I think they fill up the engine bay better than a small block as well as look a lot cleaner than the Gen III Hemis, but that's my personal preference. The smallblocks have about a 100lb weight advantage over a 440 but no one runs iron heads, intakes, WP housings and exhaust manifolds anymore and that takes care of that.

Thanks for the input.

I'm torn on the electronic ignition at first glance. Part of my motivation here is to experience the cars as similar as possible to what they were in their time, faults and all. I might quickly tire of that, and although I remember some of them still on the street in the early 80s I didn't get to experience them cars back in their prime. I turn 50 this month and I've always loved cars, my first word in fact, but all my cool cars have been late 80s vintage and newer, and all fuel injection with disk brakes etc. I've never owned a car with a carb, leaf springs, drum brakes, and I don't think I've owned a car without power steering but since that was an option back in the day I might seek it out.

As much as I appreciate what a 340 has to offer I probably wouldn't be satisfied without a big block. The real question might be 440-6 versus Hemi tribute. Sounding like the 440-6 would probably be easier to live with, and possibly more fun to cruise on the street... but the ego craves the hemi. Everyone is going to ask if its got a hemi, right?  I think a 440-6 would be pretty damn cool though, and I could probably afford that unlike a factory hemi car (Especially a 71... no way).

[captcolour]

Everyone is going to ask if its got a hemi, right?  I think a 440-6 would be pretty damn cool though, and I could probably afford that unlike a factory hemi car (Especially a 71... no way).

Nobody should ask with the billboard calling out the engine!

[427_racer]

Everyone is going to ask if its got a hemi, right?  I think a 440-6 would be pretty damn cool though, and I could probably afford that unlike a factory hemi car (Especially a 71... no way).

Nobody should ask with the billboard calling out the engine!

That's a fair point but I'm one of the minority who would prefer a 71 without the billboards!

[70_440-6Cuda]

In my opinion the difference in drivability will be minor between small vs. big block of single 4 barrel vs. 3x2 or even a Hemi.  As for reliability, that is all about the quality of the build - a poorly assembled and tuned 340 s opposed to a well designed, built and tuned 440-6 will be obvious.

Sounds like you have already decided on a '71 big block with an original appearance.  If it were me (based on where I am with mine now) I think I would be less concerned about a #s matching, or factory V code (a well documented, well restored car is most likely out of my reach price wise).

I have been toying with the idea of buying a car that is already done IF the right car comes along.

My search starts with preferably a '70, '71 will do, the right color combination and no modifications to factory appearance.  Next is either 440-6, Hemi or even 340-6, preferably 4 speed but auto is ok, rallye dash, Dana.  But the biggest thing I am looking for, especially after all the time spent here, is giveaways that the car was just thrown together for a flip, or the restoration is not well documented - and I always check in here for opinions on what may be wrong or incorrect and if anyone here knows the car.

In the end, if you buy the car right, it is a fairly safe place to park your money, if it turns out to be the wrong car for you, you can always sell it and buy another

[mtull]

By far my favorite driver is the 340-6. Things are easily accessible, and easy to play within the engine compartment. So I have no issues with servicing myself. I have found the OEM six pack to be way easier to work with then most people warn about. It also feels easier to drive and cruise in

If you remove cost, maintenance and prestige from the equation, can you expand on why you prefer driving your small block over the others with larger motors?  I'm assuming less weight on the nose of the car and quicker ratio steering help but I don't have any recent personal experience to relate these facts to how said attributes change the feel when driving?  For comparison the only E-Body I've driven in the last few years was a 71 E-Body, 383 with A/C, power steering and brakes.  Steering and suspension all stock and worn out.  I'm just wondering for my own edification.

Thank you 

[Dakota]

I'm running a 340 with throttle body EFI (FiTech).   I have about 4k miles in over the last 3-4 years without issue.

Keeping things stock is generally going to be simpler.  Adding EFI meant adding a fuel pump which, for me, ended up needing a different fuel tank. With the fuel pump and plans for other electronics that never happened other than adding a MSD 6A spark box, I added a modern alternator with higher capacity.   I spent a lot of time trimming a radio bezel so that I could put in a modern radio without hacking up the dash, but I hardly ever turn it on.  I spent time cleaning up the OE intake manifold before paining it, but repent block the heat crossover so my nice paint job got over-baked around the carb base and started peeling. 

I don't regret any of it.  Just know that every step you take away from stock usually has a ripple effect on at least 2 or 3 other things you'll have to address.