Do I need a new input shaft bearing?

[usraptor]

First of all I thought I posted this early via my phone. However I don't see it so if for some reason it posts twice, my apologies.  Without boring you with all the details, I pulled my A833 trans to replace the shift shaft seal "O" rings in the side cover since they were leaking.  Supposedly the trans was rebuilt in 1983 and never installed. When I bought the car in 2009, the trans was still sitting on the floor of the indoor storage unit (where the car had been since 1983) and came with a box of used gears and synchros. It has always shifted fine so I didn't doubt that it had in fact been rebuilt, however the shift shaft seals did leak from day one.  Anyway, I bought a gasket/seal kit from Brewers as I thought this would be a good winter project to replace the leaky "O" rings.  After removing the trans I could see that the that the pilot bearing cover seal was also leaking and since the Brewer's kit came with a new seal I removed the PB cover also.  I'm far from an expert on transmissions or bearings, however it appears to me that the pilot bearing is supposed to encased in some kind of metal cage that now appears to have broken and it also possible I'm missing a couple of ball bearing??  Anyway, before I take the trans to the trans repair shop to have a new pilot bearing installed, can somebody please verify that my pilot bearing/cage is toast?  It's weird that the trans didn't make any noise and shifted fine and there were very minimal metal shavings in the bottom of the case.  The gears, synchros and shift forks all look like new with no evidence of wear.  Also, a second question.  The end of the shift fork arm is beveled as if a ball bearing might ride in the bevel.  However, I only found two ball bearings when I took off the side cover (detent balls 81 & 85 in the service manual, and the service manual doesn't show any ball bearin that fit onto/into the ends of the shift fork arm.  Also, it doesn't appear as if the end of the shift fork arm rests on any part of the side cover anyway.  Just seems weird that they'd bevel the end of the shaft arm for no reason. Am I correct in assuming no ball bearing rests in this beveled end of the shift fork?

[Mr Cuda]

Well yes,  you need a new input bearing. Pilot bearing  is in the crank.
You will soon be a transmission expert as the trans has to come apart to change the bearing.
 No, no ball bearing on the end of the shift fork

[dodj]

Other than getting the proper snap ring pliers, refreshing an 833 is not a bad job at all. Would recommend getting a 12" piece of electrical EMT for loading the needle bearings.I got a kit from Jaimie at Passon Performance. Would recommend.

On edit. A 12" piece of 3/4" dia emt...

[usraptor]

Thanks you Mr. Cuda and dodj.  I appreciate the info.   

[DeathProofCuda]

Just curious, does anyone else find it strange to see a Japanese input bearing in a Mopar transmission that was supposedly last rebuilt in 1983? 

[Mr Cuda]

Not at all strange. 80's were sometimes hard to get stuff, and parts stores had sks 308 bearings.
 Those were good bearings, especially compared to the new stuff.
 I don't know how the cage came apart.

[Brads70]

I hope that missing ball bearing is sitting harmlessly in the bottom of the case and didn't wreck anything on the way down? 
I wouldn't rest till I found it?

[DeathProofCuda]

Not at all strange. 80's were sometimes hard to get stuff, and parts stores had sks 308 bearings.
 Those were good bearings, especially compared to the new stuff.
 I don't know how the cage came apart.

I didn't get into Mopars until 1986, but my recollection is that even into the late 90s or maybe event the early 2000s, most American car guys wouldn't put anything into their cars that was made offshore.  I don't doubt now that they were good bearings, but where I grew up there was definitely still a stigma about Japanese goods in the 1980s.

[Mr Cuda]

1980 was a time not unlike now. Inflation,  supply chain, offshoring started, just in time delivery started.
 The last year application for a large bearing 308 had been 8 years previous.  Low demand "old" cars like a mopar, had suppliers cut inventory. A SKS 308 was $18, and a bower/ bca was more, if you could find one.
 Then came the 90's and bearings were bad in the box. I was lucky to get some old stock at a swap meet.
 We have it easy now, call brewer's and get synchros,  bearings,  counter shaft, etc.
 A 308 bearings  is $32, 307, $22.
I think its made overseas.

[MoparLeo]

Japanese parts were low quality parts after WWII in the 50-60's. Japan turned into a hightech, high Quality product preoducer. Think Sony etc. The low quality stuff now came from the Phillipines, Korea, China. Low quality parts can come from anywhere, even here. f they are sold and produced for a Major brand company, it is not necessarily a low quality product as they are made to the specifications of the selling company. SKF, Dana, etc...

[usraptor]

I hope that missing ball bearing is sitting harmlessly in the bottom of the case and didn't wreck anything on the way down? 
I wouldn't rest till I found it?

Brads70, I rermoved the side case and used a turkey baster and then a paper towell to remove all the gear oil residure from the bottom of the case after I had drained the trans before removal.  I ran a magnet around the entire bottom of the case several times, both with oil residue and after it was dry.  No ball bearings were found.  The only thing I found was two very small metal shavings.  The inside of the trans, gears and synchros, look brand new. I've only but 2K miles on the car since I finished the restoration in 2018. I have no idea where the ball bearings went.      There were also no fragments inside the input bearing cover.  I'm wondering if maybe when the bearing cage was intact, the cage evenly spaced the bearings and there really isn't any missing bearings?? When I bought the car they gave me a small box that contained old gears and synchros. I've been trying to find it to compare the input bearings and count the number of ball bearings, but naturally I put it somewhere really safe and can't find it now.

I still can't believe that the bearing and broken cage didn't make any noise. Maybe my exhaust is too loud.  If I hadn't taken the cover off the front of the trans to replace the seal that was leaking, I would have never known there was a problem.  Regardless, I don't have the tools or skill to replace the input bearing so it will be going to the local trans shop that specializes in muscle car trans and I'm sure he'll find out if the possible missing bearings are hiding somewhere, ie tall shaft?? 

[mopar1]

I would advise picking up this book.  It is an excellent resource for going through the A-833.

https://www.amazon.com/Chrysler-833-Transmissions-Rebuild-Modify/dp/1613257708/ref=sr_1_2?crid=6AK0SUHO9TWF&keywords=A-833+book&qid=1706043603&sprefix=a-833+book%2Caps%2C99&sr=8-2

This video is also pretty helpful.

https://www.powernationtv.com/episode/DM2017-06/hard-charger-four-on-the-floor

[usraptor]

Thank you.