electric cars

[303 Mopar]

Interesting article on the impact of labor in the manufacturing of electric cars - https://www.morningbrew.com/daily/stories/2019/12/05/automakers-go-electric-traditional-autoworkers-face-job-cuts

As winter creeps in, households typically ease off the electricity and crank up the gas. But this season, automakers are doing the opposite.

Yesterday, GM and South Korea's LG Chem said they're investing $2.3 billion in a landmark electric vehicle battery cell plant that will employ more than 1,100 people in Ohio. And Lucid Motors, a Cali-based electric vehicle (EV) startup, broke ground this week on a $300+ million factory in Arizona that's expected to generate 4,800 jobs.

Faced with stricter emissions regulations and rising demand, automakers are pushing ambitious plans for electric vehicles.
But those plans could hollow out the workforce building gas-powered cars. 
Crunching the numbers
Internal combustion engines have a few thousand parts; EV drivetrains, a few hundred. So EVs require less labor (3.7 man-hours/car compared to 6.2) and maintenance.

The warning signs have arrived:

Mercedes parent Daimler will cut at least 10,000 jobs over the next three years as it works on releasing 20 hybrids and EVs.
Audi's eliminating 9,500 jobs over five years to accommodate EV development costs (though it plans to do so through employee turnover rather than layoffs).
BMW's trimming German employees' bonuses after checking its last electric bill.
Unions are worried
The impact of EV manufacturing is a top concern for the United Auto Workers union, which has been negotiating new contracts with Fiat Chrysler, Ford, and GM. The last two agreed to keep EV work in the U.S. for the next four years...

But EVs will be a relatively small share of overall production during that time.
The union expects EVs to swipe 35,000 jobs in the next few years.
Looking ahead...the 2020s industry forecast is about as promising as A Christmas Prince 3. A German auto union predicted 75,000 lost jobs over the decade, and a research group said it could take at least four years for global car sales (which just fell at the fastest rate since the recession) to rebound to 2017 levels.

[cuda hunter]

positive and negative there. 

I don't think the world can keep up with the electric needs if we cut out fossil fuels. 
Not to mention battery materials. 
Are we all going to heat our homes with electricity?  Currently the cost to do that is way more than double the f.f. cost. 
Electricity is not the answer to heating every home in the world.   

this is gonna get way worse before it gets better. 

[JS29]

Not to mention coal, natural gas are still needed to produce electricity.  Electric heat is way to expensive hear in my neck of the woods. 

[dodj]

The original post has quite a few large mistakes to help along their dissertation. For example - 50% line loss, 50% efficient transformers...etc. Reality is closer to 90% and 97% respectively. Along with other inaccuracies kind of kill his credibility.
While I don't think electric cars are the answer, I would not listen to the guy who penned that article. 

[MEK-Dangerous]

I've never seen any data on what it would cost you to charge an electric vehicle at home everyday.

So, say I drove it 30 miles today, and I'm going to recharge. Will the price of electricity to recharge be more or less than a couple of gallons of gas?

The other thing that would be a downer of an electric car is NO exhaust sound. This might not matter to most of the population, but it does me. I understand it has torque as soon as you step on the pedal. I just want to hear something when I stomp on it.

So an electric car is not on my horizon, but I guess there is a market for it.

[JS29]

The colder it is the less range they have, fact. Then what do they use to defrost the windows, A big toaster with a fan to circulate the heat? that would mean a shorter range. and if you don't want to wear ear muffs and a parka you will have even less range. Makes no scene in less you live close to were you work in the northern states. 

[redgum78]

Couple of things learnt after chatting with a Tesla owner;

All non essential equipment is shut down when battery capacity reaches 30%. That means no heater or air conditioner. Probably manageable in a mild climate but not very useful if you live in extreme hot or cold climates.

For the car to re-charge fully over night it needs an 80A outlet fitted to the garage. Currently the electricity distribution network in Australia will not support any more than a few 80A outlets in each street over and above the existing load. It would require massive distribution upgrades to have 75% of house holds supporting 1 car. Most house holds run 2 cars these days so we are a long way from achieving this.

Then there is the small problem of actually having the electrical energy available. Again I reference Australia, we have shut down some of our coal fired power stations and now have electricity shortages during peak periods.

My majority of us having electric car anytime soon is a pipe dream.

[Katfish]

Never understood the electric car push, no infrastructure to support it.
Hydrogen is the only solution IMO.

https://youtu.be/uJaHhxGymRA

[worthywads]

Never understood the electric car push, no infrastructure to support it.
Hydrogen is the only solution IMO.

https://youtu.be/uJaHhxGymRA

Infrastructure is already there, and growing daily.  My brother did a road trip from Minneapolis to SF, to LA and back with plenty of Tesla Supercharges to choose from along the way.  12-20 minute charges every 175 miles aren't as good as gas but not bad for a new technology.

Cost of charging every night on 220V is way cheaper than gas.

Even the least cost Tesla Model 3 (30K with incentives) kicks almost every one of our muscle cars 0-60, every stock one for sure.

[Katfish]

By infrastructure, I mean the electric grid, not the individual charging stations.
No way the present system could support mass use.

[YellowThumper]

My 2c for this article is my disgust for the devistation of land when mining the minerals. Mostly hidden because it is in 3rd world countries. My last read had payback period just getting to neutral on used energy to produce car was 3.5 years. These are the hidden costs consumers do not see.
Imagine how many thousands of barrels of fuel were burned in these monster vehicles to dig this out.

IMOP electric can only be a short stopgap direction.
As was noted earlier I also believe that hydrogen should be the future direction.

[BIGSHCLUNK]

I was recently at a fast food establishment in Kingman Az... when I noticed a line of Tesla's across the parking lot. Yep, waiting for their turn at the charging station.....   no thank you

[7212Mopar]

Here in CA, cities are putting a stop on natural gas installation in new buildings and everything must be electric. Just imagine what your utility bill might be having to cook and heat your house with electricity. I think those policy maker must be heavily invested in utility companies. There will be lots of power curtailment in the future. Just inadequate existing generation and distribution infrastructure and it takes a long time to build new ones. Those people has no idea how electricity is mostly generated in this country.

[73440]

I call them coal-fired cars.

[JS29]

I call them coal-fired cars.