electric cars

[cuda hunter]

Here in CA, cities are putting a stop on natural gas installation in new buildings and everything must be electric. Just imagine what your utility bill might be having to cook and heat your house with electricity. I think those policy maker must be heavily invested in utility companies. There will be lots of power curtailment in the future. Just inadequate existing generation and distribution infrastructure and it takes a long time to build new ones. Those people has no idea how electricity is mostly generated in this country.

Power outings for everyone! 

[cuda hunter]

My 2c for this article is my disgust for the devistation of land when mining the minerals. Mostly hidden because it is in 3rd world countries. My last read had payback period just getting to neutral on used energy to produce car was 3.5 years. These are the hidden costs consumers do not see.
Imagine how many thousands of barrels of fuel were burned in these monster vehicles to dig this out.

IMOP electric can only be a short stopgap direction.
As was noted earlier I also believe that hydrogen should be the future direction.

it's my opinion that this is the worst part of the electricity issue.  Mass pollution due to excavation of the electrical storage materials.   typically in third world countries.  China has been a pain in our asses dealing with AFghanistan.  They applied for mining rights in afghanistan and have been there the whole time we have been in a war with afghanistani's. 

  I admire those who are trying to curb out need for fossil fuels.  With our coming migration to space we need to figure out ways to store and transport energy.  Space exploration is what is driving this electrical desire, not so much "climate change".  In our schools right now the children are being taught and trained for space exploration.  The future is indeed "space exploration". 

  All this electrical exploration is necessary to figure out how we are to get off this planet and make a life on another planet. 

[cuda hunter]

Here in CA, cities are putting a stop on natural gas installation in new buildings and everything must be electric. Just imagine what your utility bill might be having to cook and heat your house with electricity. I think those policy maker must be heavily invested in utility companies. There will be lots of power curtailment in the future. Just inadequate existing generation and distribution infrastructure and it takes a long time to build new ones. Those people has no idea how electricity is mostly generated in this country.

Power outings for everyone!

I have a client who didn't want to winterize their cabin every year as it cost around 700.00 to winterize for the shut off and the start up.  I installed two electric heaters in the crawlspace just to keep the air at a constant 50* so no pipes would freeze over the winter.   She used the system for one winter, cost here about 500 a month to keep them running just enough to keep the place from freezing.  So the cost for electricity to heat her home just for the months she is not in Colorado is in the 3000.00 range.  Electricity is waay over priced and is not the solution for heating in just about any instance. 
  the people pushing electricity have never had to choose between heating their homes and buying food.

[JS29]

Here in New York state, we pay a delivery charge over the top of the kilowatt usage!   

[dodj]

Here in New York state, we pay a delivery charge over the top of the kilowatt usage!   

As do we in Ontario.

[worthywads]

By infrastructure, I mean the electric grid, not the individual charging stations.
No way the present system could support mass use.

Most charging will be done during off peak hours during the night, no problem with the current infrastructure.  Users will have incentives to only charge off peak.

https://www.wired.com/story/electric-cars-impact-electric-grid/

[7212Mopar]

By infrastructure, I mean the electric grid, not the individual charging stations.
No way the present system could support mass use.

Most charging will be done during off peak hours during the night, no problem with the current infrastructure.  Users will have incentives to only charge off peak.

https://www.wired.com/story/electric-cars-impact-electric-grid/

Peak and off peak, demand charge etc will change and will be a thing of the past. Just imagine everyone is charging their cars, cooking and heating their houses at night with electricity. The thing is natural gas don't need to be burned to release energy. There are fuel cells that can do this. These people propose to eliminate gas in building are morons.

[YellowThumper]

"These people propose to eliminate gas in building are morons."

LOL yes.
Northern California strikes again...

[dodj]

But their acceleration is awesome.  The torque created by the permanent magnet motors is really amazing. I was down in Houston earlier this year at the Toshiba motor/vfd plant and they are building the electric motors for Ford. We were not allowed into there actual assembly area (proprietary reasons) but you could see really small permanent magnet motors that were being readied for shipment. A lot of torque in a tiny package.
The tech is advancing rapidly. That can only be a good thing. 

[chargerdon]

I for one truly believe that the future of the auto industry is electric!   Its inevitable.   Are they perfect?  Of course not, but, the batteries have improved to the point that they are a true alternative.   The price will come down to the point that they are just as relatively inexpensive as a gasoline vehichle.   

1) you nah sayers point out the time to recharge...   Yes, for long distance traveling that is an issue...no doubt.  One comment was that to recharge overnight requires an 80 Amp supercharger.   Probably true if you depleted the batteries, but how many of us drive 230 miles a day??   I typically drive about 20-40 miles per day...  even a std 110 volt 20 amp charger can handle that easily.

2) The "infrastructure cant handle it".   Duh!!!!   where was the infrastructure for gasoline stations back in 1908 when Henry Ford introduced the Model T??  When electric vehicles become the norm, then the electric production/infrastructure will be created to handle it.   Just like the gasoline structure came quickly.   

3) Electricity is too expensive...   Hogwash !!   I live in North Carolina where the average high in summer is 90 and average low in the winter is 32.   My 2100 sq ft home is all electric with an electric heat pump.  My year round electric bill runs right around $200 per month.  Its a little less in the summer as heat pumps are more efficient as an air conditioner than a heater.  My electric bill is cheaper in the summer than in the winter.   Would be even cheaper if i didn't use the air compressor as much when i work on my car... Heck even that is changing as i now use a battery ratchet wrench way more than the air wrench.   

4) It creates more pollution to produce electricity than fumes from our gasoline cars.   Again, Hogwash.   With gasoline there is only 1 way to produce it...  (ethanol is a joke ! ).  Oil from the ground pumped, refined then burned in our cars.   Electricity can be produced in a variety of ways...starting from burning coal, oil, or natural gas in a plant where scrubbers can clean the air.   It also can be produced completely pollution free, from hdyro-electric, windmill farms, nuclear and solar.   Within 5 miles of where i live they put in solar panel farm, that produces 10 megawatts...  Enough to supply something like a 1,000 homes.   There are at least 20 of these solar farms within a 20 mile radius.   Completely pollution free.  However, the bulk of the electricity here comes from a nuclear power plant.   I have a car club friend who works at the local nuclear plant...he can tell stories about the extent of the safety of that plant. 

5) The batteries have to be replaced and will cost a fortune!!   Oh really, consumer reports estimates the average battery pack life to be 200,000 miles.  At that point, it will cost a few thousand to replace, but, have you had a newer car's 10 speed transmission overhauled lately?   Or had to replace a blown engine?   or...lets see...at 5,000 miles per oil/filter change..that would be 40 changes..at about $45 per change thats $1,800 over 200,000 miles on a gasoline car.   

However, it will take time, and thankfully, gasoline will still be available to put into my 66 Charger and 74 Challenger for as long as i live (im 72)!! 

[worthywads]

Unfortunately there is a lot of propaganda pushed by other industries that don't want hybrids and electrics to rock their boat.

A lot of people prefer to believe BS like a Hummer is more earth friendly than a Prius, which was totally inaccurate, and assumed a Prius would have a 78,000 mile life.  But the batteries, except batteries are one of the most recyclable products, a rebuilt battery costs a whole lot less than that automatic transmission rebuild.

People still believe that Sudbury Canada's mining was caused by mining for nickel for Prius batteries.  Totally false, and a typical US truck uses more nickel for the chrome bumpers than a Prius battery.

Was there concern about the grid not being able to handle Air Conditioning, refrigerators, Christmas lights?  We are adding homes with all kinds of electrical demand daily without concern.  Even that darn monopolistic free market energy sector seems to keep up with changing demands, but suddenly Faux News acts like electric vehicles are somehow different, and a likely disaster.

[bennydodge]

Unfortunately there is a lot of propaganda pushed by other industries that don't want hybrids and electrics to rock their boat.

A lot of people prefer to believe BS like a Hummer is more earth friendly than a Prius, which was totally inaccurate, and assumed a Prius would have a 78,000 mile life.  But the batteries, except batteries are one of the most recyclable products, a rebuilt battery costs a whole lot less than that automatic transmission rebuild.

People still believe that Sudbury Canada's mining was caused by mining for nickel for Prius batteries.  Totally false, and a typical US truck uses more nickel for the chrome bumpers than a Prius battery.

Was there concern about the grid not being able to handle Air Conditioning, refrigerators, Christmas lights?  We are adding homes with all kinds of electrical demand daily without concern.  Even that darn monopolistic free market energy sector seems to keep up with changing demands, but suddenly Faux News acts like electric vehicles are somehow different, and a likely disaster.

Unfortunately there is a lot of propaganda being pushed by the electric car industry as well; fossil fuel is evil-the earth needs "saving", blah blah blah..They've got products to sell too. What really burns me up is the government's insistence on rewarding people for buying electric cars. They give tax credits for buying electric cars but punish me with a gas guzzler tax for buying a Hellcat Challenger. This is WRONG no matter your point of view. How much petroleum is used to construct electric cars? Paint, interior plastics and tires are all oil-based. I'm pretty sure there's not an "earth friendly" hemp-based tire. I drive my Cummins Dually from Denver to Lake Havasu at least twice a year and I'm hauling a truck camper during one of these trips. There's no way any electric powered anything is going get there before me. I make short, quick stops for fuel and restroom breaks and we're right back on the road. Electric vehicles for long range trips are simply a deal breaker for me and a lot of other people as well.

[RzeroB]

I saw the Turbine Car at the MCACN show ... I'm just surprised that the turbine application has not been revisited. Turbines are so much more efficient than piston engines. In airplanes the turbine replaced the big radials and it has never looked back. Wonder why they never seemed to give it another shot??

[chargerdon]

Good ole Mother Mopar did everything they could for the turbine engine cars.   They quit because they could NOT much them as fuel efficient as a piston engine.   Pure and simple...   Yes, on the highway they were roughly equal, but, the problem is that they idle at something like 20,000 rpm...   Red lights kill them in an automobile...in a plane they are steady eddy...   

Then there was the federal government, and the Chrysler bail out....one of the conditions of the bail out was to quit wasting money on turbine technology.   

[Jay Bee]

I got this article in an e-mail the other day. May not be so easy scrapping them either, in Austria at least.

https://www.rt.com/news/474190-austria-tesla-electric-car-ash/?utm_source=Newsletter&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=Email