Stallantis and chrysler vehicles

[chargerdon]

Stellantis publicized that they will NOT be attending any auto shows during 2024.   Just what would they show anyways...RAM trucks and JEEPS and the lone entry Pacifica...and oh yeah the hornet...   Whoopee

Dodge made this huge press release for the upcoming 2024 Challenger/Charger replacement performance EV back last spring/summer and ! i believe the end of december signified the last Challenger to roll off the assembly line.   The new EV Daytona isnt expected until December 2024.   Are you serious?   Stellantis expects to have 0 Dodge badged cars for a year and then the public to flock to the EV version when by then the number of high performance EV's will be huge !!   I dont know what they are smoking but, i dont want any as its bad shit !!   

So... Is Chrysler and Dodge soon to be out of business?   Damn...sure glad i have my 74 Challenger !!

[Brads70]

Maybe thats the plan? Force the manufacturer's to either make EV ( that almost no one wants, can afford, or is just not feasible) or go out of business. CAFE requirements etc....
Don't worry though, "you will be happy and own nothing"
I don't see much of a future for Dodge unfortunately, unless the climate emergency crowd gets booted out and people start waking up politically and realize people that no one voted for are dictating our futures. UN, WEF, WHO ....

[70vert]

I honestly don't understand what they were thinking! Even if Stellantis took everyone at their word (govt's, scientists, activists, etc.) their management was truly incompetent. They had to know they could not design and build an entirely new car with entirely new technology in barely more than a year. I mean what was/is their plan for 2024? Just a bunch more hype?

It is sad for sure, but I think a reality that the Chrysler division might not survive. Unless they just start rebranding some EU vehicles and start importing. Though not sure that would work.

[RUNCHARGER]

It's been over for a long time. This is just closer to being official. Personally I think there is a lot less engineering getting one of these toaster oven cars to market. The only hope for the Chrysler brand to survive is if the Europeans offer up the name and network for cheap and a new group takes over and brings a Chrysler branded EV to market. Probably won't happen as the Europeans will hang on hoping they can make inroads into America before it's obvious no one wants their junk and it ends up in bankruptcy again.

[Brads70]

Might be a good idea to start buying up parts you will need for the next 20 years, especially with the newer Challengers ? Sensors, computer stuff etc...

[ec_co]

Everything that I've read so far indicates that they will be doing the i6 and full EV. The i6 will be first to be released in both the low and high output versions, with the EV Banshee coming towards the end of the year. I just saw a video today of the EV being driven on the highway behind a Challenger near the production plant. So I don't think we're as far off from the release as you think it is

Edit to add the video https://www.instagram.com/reel/C2KWsBMrXy7/?igsh=MXhjd28zNDAzdXFncw%3D%3D

[MEK-Dangerous]

I just saw where they are starting to build last call editions of the 2024 Durango.
I guess Stallantis is killing off everything Dodge/Chrysler and starting over from scratch?

[captcolour]

And no more hemi's correct?  What are they putting in the RAMS?  Was talking to a Ford dealer recently and they can't give away Lightnings or e-Machs.  I'm guessing the used car market will become a sellers market if you have a gas vehicle in a year or two.

[chargerdon]

Stubborness is a wonderful thing.   Doesn't surprise me much that the truck customers would be the last to accept EV.   I have a golfing buddy that drives a Tahoe with its 400+ HP LS engine.   He has a bumper sticker on the back that says "i love global warming".   He believes that there is no global warmining other than the centuries long changes in the earth that have been occurring all the time.   Witness the previous ICE Age. 

For me Global warming is a real problem...the only issues are how fast before it becomes a true problem with flooding, storms, etc.   1 year?  10 ? 50? over 100 ?   and is there anything we can do about it?   

If the entire automotive world were replaced with BEV overnight...what would its affect be on global warming let alone the economy??  If the affect would be minimal then i guess he is right...if we could slow it down drastically until were able to replace all of the energy sources with renewable rather than burning coal and oil...   then we NEED TO START NOW before its too late !! 

Regarding BEV vehicles...gosh darn...i wish i could afford one right now !!   Back in the late 60's and early 70's Muscle cars with street tires, would turn 0-60 times in the mid 6's and 7s and only the hottest had a chance of hitting in the upper 5's and they got 6 mpg on premium.   Today, i can go to my friendly Hyundai dealer (or Tesla and others) and buy a BEV that will hit 0-60 on street tires at 4.0 or less !!!   AND it will deliver economy of the equivalent of 80-125 MPG.  True 5 years ago they cost so much that they would NEVER break even on the fuel cost...but...today their only about $10K more than the avg ICE vehicle, and that price is dropping rapidly as our scientists continue to find ways to make the batteries cheaper to manufacture !!!   

And you purists say you don't want a $40,000 car or SUV that can do 0-60 in 4 seconds and gets 100MPGe  ??   Just because the government says its good for you??   what am i missing ?   

[70vert]

@chargerdon
Like with everything the "government" does, they've gone about this all wrong. Most people do not like it when the government tells them what they can and cannot do. It has always been that way but seems more extreme currently as they address so many facets of global warming. Like getting rid of natural gas stoves, telling us to get a heat-pump, etc. And of course following dictates from other international know-it-alls just makes it worse.

Most of us have nothing against EV other than we are told we have to. History is full of vehicles that were ugly, underpowered, "foreign", etc that fell by the wayside via lack of consumer interest/support.

All that said, I am currently looking at PHEV for my wife's new car, because it fits our need. And they are actually getting reasonable $$.

Just my take on it all.

[JH27N0B]

And no more hemi's correct?  What are they putting in the RAMS?  Was talking to a Ford dealer recently and they can't give away Lightnings or e-Machs.  I'm guessing the used car market will become a sellers market if you have a gas vehicle in a year or two.

The 5.7 is still available in 24 1500s and the 6.4 in 2500/3500.
I'm not sure how much longer you'll be able to get a hemi but at least in '24 you can.

[tparker]

@chargerdon

I think our community dislikes EVs at a couple different levels. One, EVs are at odds with the very nature of our Hobby. It is the gas, the rumble, the sound, etc that drives us. Sure EVs have some incredible performance, but it isn't the same. Also there is a style and asthetic.

Then there is the whole government thing. Government doesn't get anything right. I'm not being hyperbolic, but it isn't in there nature and they don't have the incentives to get things right. They "fix" things, broken or not. These people are not experts and are often not around after whatever they are trying to fix has been implemented. They have no accountability for what they "fix" and they have no stake in it either, ie they don't spend their own money. Imagine if the government started looking into facebook and twitter when it first started and regulated it from the begining. Or The internet. Could we get away with Electricity today? Imagine trying to implement a thing where we had to pump dangerous wires to every house in the US. That mentality is being applied to the automotive sector. Many mistakes are being made by forcing EVs prematurely as we are just starting to find out. People are not buying them, Hertz is selling off a giant portion of the ev fleet, and then the cold snap in the north east just reveled some interesting properties of EV vehicles. Then we will have issues with Batteries. Uncle Tony had an interesting video on youtube about repair shops and dealers not repairing batteries when they get potentially damaged. Then there is the mess with manufactoring batteries and other EV components, let alone charging batteries with Coal Fired plants.

I also think our community has a healthy dose of suspicion at government agencies, for a variety of reasons. If you really listen to many climate scientist, they don't say climate change doesn't exist, but that the info we get is highly biased and full of misinformation. I think that has a lot to do with backlash from our community. Honestly, I bet no one in our group wouldn't have fun in one of the performance based EVs. They may not admit it any more than they would admit to enjoy owning a Chevy Camero, LOL. There is a certain amount of pride involved.

I think EVs are a natural progression. We all will end up having then in the future. But I will be drug kicking and screaming all the way, but for different reasons. I think there are a lot of short commings such as the grid issues, repair issues, emergency issues (think natural disasters and your car isn't charged enough),  Power Outages, older neighbor hoods without driveways and many cars parking on the streets with power cords running to them, etc. Currently people line up at places like target or grocery stores to charge there cars. There are lines waiting, and only a small amount of people have EVs. How will that scale?

Lots of issues to contend with that make us old crotchety old men suspect. LOL.

[chargerdon]

@tparker

as i said...stubbornness...  "the government is forcing me there fore i resist..."   And your partially wrong to begin with...the government is not forcing you to buy an EV..   I can go to about any new car dealer and CHOOSE whether i want an EV or an ICE.   What they are forcing is that the mfg provide you with a choice !!   Zero pollution, hey thy are also experimenting with hydrogen cars, and others when you dont want.   

Just goes to prove my point...without persuasion we would each pick our preference and that for the most part would be ICE when the BEV cars cost an extra $20k.    My buddy says global warming is bullshit and he wants no part of the solution as the government is wrong.    My argument is simple...maybe so, but, what if their right and we do nothing...   go ahead look your grandkids in the eye and tell them your gambling with THEIR future...not yours ..theirs... our great grandkids will be the ones to suffer in the future...not you and me !!!   

I watched the republican debate and DeSantis and Nikki Haley both said if elected they would drop the federal fuel tax to promote ICE cars.   Wow...try explaining that to the auto manufacturers that have spend all of their research billions on engineering and designing BEV vehicles that...hey scrap all of that were going back to gasoline...yeah...right..  do we expect them to switch back and forth every 4 years ??   I wonder how much each of those two and Trump have invested in Oil producers companies ???   Ill bet a lot !!   

Meanwhile, like i said before...im keeping my 74 gas guzzling Challenger until i die...and then my grandson can enjoy it.   

[RUNCHARGER]

Yeah: Scientists and the gobernment told us in 1974 that we were going to run out of oil by 1980 too. So I am not going to waste time discussing credibility.
Personally I'd like to ditch oil just because all involved in oil have been screwing us for long enough and I'd like to send my money somewhere else other than the Middle east. I'm all for going with something better when it comes up. I get forcing the issue actually, if it isn't forced we'll still be sending billions to the Middle east 30 years from now.
In the future we'll be using various types of energy. The end result is different than what they are planning for us now.

[tparker]

Hi, @chargerdon
I'm probably wrong on lots of stuff, including my last post. But is Government forcing me to buy and EV? Depends on what you mean by that. No, I don't have to buy anything.... except health ensurance. We are basically forced to buy that. But I can not own a car. So yeah, they are not forcing me to buy one. But let's dig a bit deeper. Have they banned ICE? Well, who do we mean by Government? Government is made up of a lots of different components. There are the feds, State, and local. And with in that there are factions that are left and some that are right and some that are harder to pin down. Then there is the bureaucracy at all those levels. Some government officials want to ban cars all together while others don't. Regardless where we are today, that crowd is growing in sentiment. But to get to the point are they forcing me to buy an EV? Well, California has "Banned" the selling of new gas powered vehicles by 2035 if I am not mistaken. So, if I MUST buy a car in California at that point I will be arguably forced to do so. We can play semantics here but at the end of the day you won't be able to buy a new car that is gas powered. Sure you COULD go out of state, but there are other factors there.

Various agency in California have tremendous power and they have been hammering Gas Powered Vehicles and other related industries for decades. You can't buy or sell gas powered mowers, blowers, or other related tools in California anymore. Certain personal at CARB (California Air Resource Board) have stated there disproval towards classic cars. Several items have came up over the years regarding their position. Currently there is a hub-bub towards a recent survey they sent out asking various detailed questions about the usage of classic cars. Lots of people fear the motivation behind the survey. Agencies have a great amount of power and have it in their power to limit how we can enjoy our cars. There also has been a lot of chatter about zero emission areas. All of this is subject to litigation and not quite implemented, but it is where we are heading. So no, I am not forced to buy an EV, but the pressure to limit where and how I can enjoy my classic car is under threat.

They (who ever they may be) are not forcing them to give us a choice. They (My State government and many others) are forcing them to eliminate the choice by removing ICE as an option. Stellantis as a company probably doesn't car what it sells as long as it sells. But the EU is commited to the same goal and they probably have read the tea leaves and are moving to EVs and away from ICEs. If you know your future product is limited, you better get a jump on that.

The real problem with how we are going about it is due to government top down implementation by people that don't understand the problems. We don't have the infrastructure to support all new cars to be electric. We also don't have a society that has been "trained" on how to use them. This means people that are expeireinced in the special needs of these cars. There are a ton of EVs in the north east that are dead bricks because they cannot be charged. Hopefully non of these people have an emergency where they need transportation. Batteries hate cold temperatures. I can't imagine how many cold rural regions that rely on Trucks are going to deal with limited battery capacity during cold winters.

EVs are gonna be a hard sell to a lot of people for a variety of reasons. They definitely are not a panacea and by many accounts won't put a dent into global warming for a variety of reasons, not to mention their own ecological impact. EVs work fairly well (Except for the occasional catastrophic fires) and have cheaper maintenance (until you need to replace certain parts). If they work for you, great. My biggest issue with them is the range and price. Although they would work in my normal daily needs, they fail on my occasional vacations where I put on a ton of mileage in a short amount of time. I will continue to drive ICE for a long time, but at some point will probably end up with an EV.

How exactly will our children's future be gambled or how exactly will they be suffering? This is bandied around a bit but I think there is a lot of hyperbole regarding this idea. How are EVs going to prevent that? There is so much confusion and misunderstanding around the impact that I don't think you can actually make this a point in an argument. But while we are at it, we could also ban many other items in the name of saving the future. Most modern convienences create pollution. Getting oranges, bananas, and kiwis in winter require an enormous amount of resources to get them to your local grocery store. Not to mention, computers, games, clothing, most foods, etc. All these items and more impact the environment needlessly. But there isn't a huge outcry for those. So I don't really buy the arguement that my car is killing the enviornment and destroying the childrens future. I'm still curious how it will be destroyed. Probably not the best venue to keep going down this topic though. lol. Sorry for the rant.