Strange night last night(update)

[blown motor]

I feel so bad for the kids.

[js27]

Now all he facts are in we can now agree that this shooter was wrong and is criminally libel for his actions. I agree that he should not legally own a gun and should be charged to the fullest extent of the law. Wild 1 is correct in saying gun laws do absolutely NOTHING to stop a criminal from committing a crime. In 1991 Creepy Joe Biden ( now running fro president) enacted the GUN FREE ZONE law. Since then 98% of all mass shootings occurred in Gun Free Zones--so much for Gun Laws.  I will leave you all with this...pretty much says it all.
JS27

[JS29]

@1wildr/t said it right! everybody wants to blame the firearm, not the one with there finger on the trigger. there was no provocation to use deadly force. one rule of firearm training, know your target and what is beyond it. in this case a housing development!   

[ledphoot]

Yup

[BIGSHCLUNK]

As I scroll thru this thread I see we've gone from (crazy) ex-cop (?) to the "gun" conversation. But it has been kept in check - GOOD JOB GUYS! That being said I see more and more of the off duty cop/ex cop stories all the time. Road rage often hinges upon people that are bullies to begin with. A bully is never good. A bully with a badge.... a thousand times worse. I've seen it in my own town. And yes I do have cop friends. Just for the record.............. I carry everyday.... 

[js27]

You have to think there almost 9 Billion people on this earth. Even if only 1% are defective that is a lot of crazy-evil-people out there. Just last year I had a friend who was sitting at home with her boyfriend and her ex boyfriend shows up at her house with a 12 gauge shotgun ( legally owned)  and kills them both and then kills himself. NO law in the world would have stopped that. Just 2 weeks ago at our local indoor range a guy came in rented a handgun and bought a box of ammo and went into the range area loaded the gun and shot himself in the head. Nothing would have stopped that. Thankfully he just shot himself and no other people were physically injured but watching that will leave emotional scars no doubt. We just had a school shooting yesterday in North Carolina--2 people killed. What is the first thing all the Liberal Democrats do---SCREAM gun control. You have to realize in life you the individual are responsible for your own protection. We all would love to live in a utopia but we don't and my wife and I carry everyday because when it comes right down to it we know we are responsible for our own protection
JS27.

[1 Wild R/T]

Cops don't prevent crimes, rarely do they stop crimes... Mostly they document crimes.... 

[Timbbuc2]

The guy that shot at has yet to come back to his home out of fear and a strong suggestion by his family not to do so. The last word I heard the DA is looking at this case very hard whether or not to charge the shooter with attempted murder.
If convicted he will never own a gun again legally. That's another issue

[JH27N0B]

All the laws in the world don't make a bit of difference if they are not enforced/prosecuted.
We had 2 tragedies in this area recently, one car related, one gun, that really hit home on that point.
In the car related one, an Illinois state trooper was killed in a head on collision with a wrong way driving drunk driver.  As it turned out, the driver was no stranger to the law.  He'd been arrested numerous times over the years for driving infractions, including drunk driving, the most recent DUI was last October.  Get this, he'd never had a drivers license!  Yet there he was, out free and no qualms about driving again, and drunk.  He'd probably do it again someday down the line, except he died too, the only thing that could stop him I guess, because the legal system wouldn't.
In the other case, an employee showed up at work knowing he was going to be fired.  In his termination meeting, he pulled out a gun and murdered 5 people, and shot and injured 4 cops before he was killed.
He bought the gun despite having a felony record.  This state has a firearms ID card, but the state didn't find the felony record when he applied for the ID card.  Nor did the federal check when he bought the gun.  Yet the news found his criminal record within minutes after his name was released.
He had applied for a CCL and when his fingerprints were submitted, they had discovered his record and canceled his firearms ID.  But made no effort to make sure he'd got rid of his guns.
So now the state is talking about making everyone go to the state police in person and submit fingerprints.  There are 21 or 22 state police offices.  Maybe a million residents have firearms ID cards.  So rather than push the police and prosecutors to do a better job enforcing existing laws, they are going to pass a law that will result in hundreds of thousands of people showing up at state police offices, needing to fill out applications and get fingerprints?  The police don't have the facilities or resources to do that, how does this even begin to make sense?

[Brads70]

Laws and locks are only there to keep honest people honest..... if people are hell bent to cause harm or steal , they will find away. Preventing good people from defending themselves or property never gets my vote. As with latest world events ( thinking Easter) .... I'd rather face a shooter than some terrorist with a bomb, bombs are much easier to make/come by.... scary fact. The world is not getting better folks. Evil is flourishing, as good men do nothing.

[Timbbuc2]

Laws and locks are only there to keep honest people honest..... if people are hell bent to cause harm or steal , they will find away. Preventing good people from defending themselves or property never gets my vote. As with latest world events ( thinking Easter) .... I'd rather face a shooter than some terrorist with a bomb, bombs are much easier to make/come by.... scary fact. The world is not getting better folks. Evil is flourishing, as good men do nothing.

I spent the last several years in Honduras and no one is allowed to own guns unless it is the police or a security guard. BUT for many years Honduras was considered the most dangerous country in the world. If a bad guy wants to buy a gun it will happen

[1 Wild R/T]

Laws and locks are only there to keep honest people honest..... if people are hell bent to cause harm or steal , they will find away. Preventing good people from defending themselves or property never gets my vote. As with latest world events ( thinking Easter) .... I'd rather face a shooter than some terrorist with a bomb, bombs are much easier to make/come by.... scary fact. The world is not getting better folks. Evil is flourishing, as good men do nothing.For fear of prosecution....

Fixed it for you...

[anlauto]

There seems to be a lot of "pro" gun people here in this conversation....

What at your thoughts on preventing bad people doing bad things with guns ? Seems everyday in the news someone is getting shot, what steps would you take to prevent that ?

[Brads70]

Laws and locks are only there to keep honest people honest..... if people are hell bent to cause harm or steal , they will find away. Preventing good people from defending themselves or property never gets my vote. As with latest world events ( thinking Easter) .... I'd rather face a shooter than some terrorist with a bomb, bombs are much easier to make/come by.... scary fact. The world is not getting better folks. Evil is flourishing, as good men do nothing.

I spent the last several years in Honduras and no one is allowed to own guns unless it is the police or a security guard. BUT for many years Honduras was considered the most dangerous country in the world. If a bad guy wants to buy a gun it will happen

Yup, anyone with access to a mill and a lathe can easily make one.... it's not rocket science

[JH27N0B]

:

There seems to be a lot of "pro" gun people here in this conversation....

What at your thoughts on preventing bad people doing bad things with guns ? Seems everyday in the news someone is getting shot, what steps would you take to prevent that ?

I'm an analytical person, an engineer by trade (an engineer by day, a pilot and flight instructor by night). Therefore I'm not at all impressed by emotional arguments, or emotionally charged but meaningless terms like Saturday night specials, assault weapons, military grade, or gun violence. I wish I'd hear more of the issues addressed in a textbook problem solving exercise rather than the throwing stuff at walls hoping it will stick feel good proposals politicians and the news media push.
Problem solving is first defining the problem, second, brainstorming possible solutions, 3rd investigating the possible solutions for potential effectiveness and cost, and finally enacting what is decided to be the best solution.
Personally, I believe the two biggest problems that need to be addressed are gangs and how we treat mental health.  There are no simple solutions to either of those, but both are too important to be ignored or swept under the rug, which I believe to a large extent both are.
The gangs are largely a problem of the poorer communities.  I don't claim to have good ideas on that, however if we can figure out a way to cut down on single motherhood, and bring good male role models into these mostly male kids lives, it would go a long way.
As to mental health, I'm sorry to say, but I think that closing down mental institutions was a big mistake.  I'm a big Ben Shapiro fan and he gave a statistic on mental institutions that blew my mind. I don't have anywhere near Bens brilliant memory for stats, but my recollection is that he said in 1960 we had around 500,000 people in mental institutions, and today with nearly doubling of the US population, the number of patients in mental institutions is around 50,000.
The use of drugs to treat mental illness has skyrocketed, and I don't think they represent a miracle cure.  First is the issue of making people take their drugs. Second are unintended side effects, a subject that I think gets swept under the carpet.
I had a falling out with a sibling who turned bipolar.  I question if her being on antidepressants are what caused this to happen.  She was never bipolar, yet in her 50s turned bipolar after taking antidepressants.  I have a strong suspicion increased prescription drug use has caused violent side effects in some patients.