The ugly side...assets.

[superdave]

   Perhaps this isn't the place to bring this up but it should be considered. We are dealing with end of life issues concerning my mom. She is a nursing home and at around $10k/month we are going through her assets pretty quickly. Various federal, state, and even local laws can come into play. Mom doesn't have a hemi Challenger hiding in the garage but if she did I can only imagine that it would have to be sold in order to pay the bills before medicaid (you can read that as you, her fellow tax payers) would start paying for her care and, I would argue, rightfully so. There is at least a five year look back period for assets given away so if she did have that Hemi and gave it to myself or someone then they(the government) would most likely come looking for it or at least some money for it. It is a touchy subject and full of gray areas but is probably something to consider especially given the value of some of these cars and/or if you want your car(s) to stay in the family when you are gone. Some or many of you may well have a plan in place but our family didn't plan for that properly (and I really should have known better). Just something to think about, even though we really don't want to.

[blown motor]

So if she "gave" it to you within the last five years the gov't could make you cough up some cash for to go towards her keep? Or they could posssibly claim the car?

[superdave]

Yes, "money" that is given away is given away is the way I have seen it it stated but I would assume other valuable assets would recieve like treatment. But i'm not a lawyer or an accountant.

[Squire Edgar]

We are going through the same thing with my Mom, the problem I think most people have is that my parents were very independent and did not think that their life time assets would go to end of life healthcare, but to my brother and I. Unfortunately my dad died after a short illness and my Mom who had been diagnosed with Alzheimers shortly bedfore that is now in Memory care, their lifetime savings "everything" money wise is almost gone. We have calculated with the worst case scenario that she will be broke and on Medicaid at the 5 year mark. Best case scenario my brother and I might get a few thousand. Unfortunately people tend to wait too long to get things taken care of and at the blink of an eye you're SOL. 

[Squire Edgar]

My brother and had my mother gift us her assets 3 years ago and are in charge of her care, but the government will find out where the money went so were still stuck with the 5 year look back.

[superdave]

Gifting too much in any one year can also trigger tax consequences. 

[RzeroB]

Unfortunately that's pretty much a sad, but true assessment.

Tale of two families. My wife's folks were smart in that technically they owned very little for a decade before their deaths. They were not without assets, they strategized with an estate planner and had most everything placed into a couple of different trusts and other stuff. The majority of their assets survived being liquidated to pay for their care costs.

On the other hand, my dad was a fool. He loved money and didn't do any estate planning thinking that perhaps he could take it all with him when he died. His care costs consumed nearly all of his considerable assets leaving just enough to have him buried.

Proper estate planning BEFORE it is needed is critical. After that life lesson we went and got our assets insulated with an estate planner. Cost more than I thought it might, but the peace of mind is well worth it.

[blown motor]

From an ethical point of view, is it right to shelter away your money and then let the gov't (taxpayers) pay for your keep? Just asking.

[1 Wild R/T]

From an ethical point of view, is it right to shelter away your money and then let the gov't (taxpayers) pay for your keep? Just asking.

From an ethical point of view is it right that 30% of the US population has been sucking up each & every available benefit while the rest of us work hard & provide for out futures....

If I can legally shelter a little of what I've worked for to pass along to those I care about I'll have no moral issues whatsoever.... 

[superdave]

@blown motor  I don't believe that is ethical at all. I wouldn't encourage anyone to do that and hope it didn't come across that way. I believe that we should care for our own family as best as we can. I was kind of thinking of a story that I saw on facebook a few days ago about some kids that restored their dad's Challenger for him. If they want to keep it in the family they (and others in that situation) may need to plan ahead. I just picked up "Crisis of Responsibility" which addresses that subject, pretty good reading.

[RUNCHARGER]

Don't let Canadians tell you that it is all rosey here and that doesn't happen. My parents worked hard all their life and never took a nickel from the govt. Because they made do without stuff and saved their pennies they got to pay lots for care at the end of their life. If they had been low life takers all their life then things would have been paid for. The first thing the highly paid health providers check is your bank account.

[Plumcrazzy]

Find a good elder care lawyer. I did and it helped a great deal.

[blown motor]

@blown motor  I don't believe that is ethical at all. I wouldn't encourage anyone to do that and hope it didn't come across that way. I believe that we should care for our own family as best as we can. I was kind of thinking of a story that I saw on facebook a few days ago about some kids that restored their dad's Challenger for him. If they want to keep it in the family they (and others in that situation) may need to plan ahead. I just picked up "Crisis of Responsibility" which addresses that subject, pretty good reading.

You didn't come across that way at all. It was just a thought I had and I threw it out there. I can't disagree with Wild's comment either.

[ToxicWolf]

I filed a gift tax return for my father just before April 15th of this year in the US.  Unless you are a multimillionaire, you will never have to pay Gift Tax in the United States.  As of this year the lifetime gift tax allowance is over 5 million dollars ... over your lifetime.  Everyone knows about the "Annual" gift tax allowance, but they seldom talk about the "lifetime" allowance. Any time in a particular year that you exceed the Annual allowance you can file a Gift Tax Return and use a portion of the lifetime allowance. The instructions for the Gift Tax Return are ridiculously complicated and if you need to file one (because you exceeded the "Annual" allowance) I strongly recommend hiring an accountant or tax professional to do the form for you.

As for ... is it ethical ... the last people in the world I would trust to do the smart thing with our money is the government.  ANY government. 

[BillR1212]

estate planning and long term care are pretty tough. Not to mention the death tax. I feel for anybody going through that. Great advice to warn others.

From an ethical point of view, is it right to shelter away your money and then let the gov't (taxpayers) pay for your keep? Just asking.

This is a tough question. As a small government individual liberty person I see why you would say that, and tend to agree. On the flip side, high cost of medical care (a whole other story) can quickly drain personal assets. I'll keep my soap box to myself, but I guess I'm okay with protecting one's wealth once you've exhausted your ability to provide care. Insurance and medical costs have grown out of control. We can likely look back historically and see the policies over the past 60-70 years that have helped sow the seeds of the crops we are now reaping.