tragedy at Raleigh, NC Christmas parade

[chargerdon]

My car club...PiedmontCCC   each year participates in the annual Raleigh Christmas Parade.   Yesterday, i had my 74 Challenger there waiting in line to drive the 1 1/2 miles in the parade.   Sitting a few hundred feet from the start line, i witnessed a float going by at what seemed to be an unusually fast speed for a parade.   

Sure enough, the float was being pulled by a GMC Denalli with highly modified wheels...and the brakes had gone out.   The street is a slight downgrade and the driver was blowing his horn and yelling...get out of the way...i cant stop...   In front of him was a kids Dance troupe of mostly young girls dancing in the parade.   He hit at least one girl killing her not sure if others were injured or not.   Driver a 20 year old guy who owns the truck and the modification company that did the work on the wheels..   I have to believe that those wheels sticking out a good foot away from the truck was improperly modified and caused the brakes to fail.    They eventually got the truck stopped by having about 8 adult men physically stopping the truck.   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrjIKVB0_wY

The parade after about half hour was canceled.   I don't know that ill ever participate in one again !!   

[Filthy Filbert]

It's sad that a young child lost their life. 

Those wheels didn't cause a brake failure.  Must have been some other failure like a blown brake line

With how easy that truck was to stop by dudes just stepping in front of it... the idiot behind the wheel should have just stepped on the parking brake and/or tossed it in park.   

[torredcuda]

Tragic that happened. A lot of newer vehicles you can`t "toss in park" due to electronic controls but the parking brake should have worked. We won`t know what caused actually the brake failure untill there is an investigation, could have a number of things.

[chargerdon]

well...we will have to wait on the full investigation.   However, moving those wheels out a foot or more means you have to relocate the brake lines as well...   My GUESS is that it wasn't done properly and a brake line was damaged or even broken from the strain.   Even with dual master cylinders...pump them a couple of times and it goes empty.   

The driver obviously panicked but look carefully...the street flattens out where they finally got it stopped...where the hit occurred it was steeper there...were talking walking speeds here, but, i saw the truck/float going down the grade and it was faster than walking speed at that time.   

The driver owner has been charged with driving an unsafe vehicle in the parade...and oh he also had a firearem with him.   Definitely illegal in the city of Raleigh.   He is in deep doo doo and his Modification company is...well...would you want your truck to be modified there ? 

[torredcuda]

Do you actually know what modifications were done to the vehicle or is it purely speculation on your part?

[anlauto]

Oh man, that is so sad...never mind how it happened, just prayers for everyone injured and of course that poor little girl and her family 

[Filthy Filbert]

well...we will have to wait on the full investigation.   However, moving those wheels out a foot or more means you have to relocate the brake lines as well...   My GUESS is that it wasn't done properly and a brake line was damaged or even broken from the strain.   

When you use spacers or use wheels with excessive backspacing; the brake rotors, calipers and brake lines don't get touched.   Big heavy wheels do require more brake force, but I doubt he was into brake fade from heat build up at parade speeds.   I would say it's a safe bet that he had some other failure completely unrelated to the aftermarket wheels.  The biggest strain on wheels like that is on the wheel bearings, not the brakes. 

[chargerdon]

I don't know the exact modifications, however, look at the video.    It is obvious that the wheels front and back are extended outward at least a foot from the normal point.   That has to mean relocation of the brake lines no way i believe that this was just a coincidence.   You have to assume that those modifications where at least in part responsible for the brake failure.   

So tragic!!!  i cant even begin to image what the parents of that 11 year old girl are experiencing, as well as the mental strain on the other girls who witnessed or narrowly missed being struck themselves.   People on the streets that witnessed it were all in tears.  I know that sitting there in my car watching that float go past my street i turned to my wife and said...its going a little fast don't you think ?   She said yes, and did you see the girls running in front of it...maybe they fell to far back in the parade and where making up time.    Then all hell broke loose...police jumping on their motorcycles...rescue workers running...and we knew something terrible had just happened.   We were thankful when after nearly half an hour later, and talk of rerouting the parade, it was mercifully canceled.   

Thank God at least that it appears to be just the one girl and not many.   

[Filthy Filbert]

I'm sorry that you personally witnessed such a tragedy.  It's always a shock and affects mental health.  Don't be afraid to seek the help of a mental health specialist. 

That said, I can say that I am not aware of ANY wheel modifications that are done with anything but spacers or backspace and longer wheel studs, and all bolt on over top of the brakes without modifying the brake location at all.  Something else happened. 

[chargerdon]

Did you look at the youtube video i posted ??   Those wheels are extended out WAY more than backspacing spacers and long studs.   At least 12 to 18 inches...NO way you can do that without extending the brake lines.   That my friend is no coincidence with something else causing it. 

And your right, that wasn"t brake fade at those speeds...   Complete brake failure like that is no doubt in my mind caused by those modifications...   The driver owns the vehicle and the shop that modified it.    I feel terrible for him as well...his life is scarred forever. 

[Filthy Filbert]

I promise you, these guys do this with wheel backspacing and spacers.   

Look here:   Brakes still in stock location.

[anlauto]

Did you look at the youtube video i posted ??   Those wheels are extended out WAY more than backspacing spacers and long studs.   At least 12 to 18 inches...NO way you can do that without extending the brake lines.   That my friend is no coincidence with something else causing it. 

And your right, that wasn"t brake fade at those speeds...   Complete brake failure like that is no doubt in my mind caused by those modifications...   The driver owns the vehicle and the shop that modified it.    I feel terrible for him as well...his life is scarred forever.

The brakes don't move with those types of wheels. They stick out by means of WAY more front spacing then back spacing....Our rally rims are 7" wide with 4.5" back spacing.....these types of custom wheels maybe 12"-15" wide with only 3" back spacing so that you have plenty of room for your Neon lights...LOL....The brakes/hubs etc...are all stock...usually no spacers, no long studs either....

It's likely this truck had brake failure due to other modifications made, no argument there, but it's not the wheels in my opinion...

Again, who cares, let's think of the people involved 

"The driver owns the vehicle and the shop that modified it".     not for long

[torredcuda]

well...we will have to wait on the full investigation.   However, moving those wheels out a foot or more means you have to relocate the brake lines as well...   My GUESS is that it wasn't done properly and a brake line was damaged or even broken from the strain.   

When you use spacers or use wheels with excessive backspacing; the brake rotors, calipers and brake lines don't get touched.   Big heavy wheels do require more brake force, but I doubt he was into brake fade from heat build up at parade speeds.   I would say it's a safe bet that he had some other failure completely unrelated to the aftermarket wheels.  The biggest strain on wheels like that is on the wheel bearings, not the brakes.

[anlauto]

It's referred to as "negative offset" . I found this by Googling it

[70_440-6Cuda]

I am just going to say, similar to the Dallas air show tragedy, speculation at this point is just guessing with no facts.

I agree, prayers to all involved, including those that witnessed the event, especially so close to the holidays.  As for the driver, could he have done something different?  Surely, but would I have thought to hit the e brake in a panic situation at 20?  Not sure... I feel for him as well - it clearly was not intentional, and he has to live with that his whole life.  Tragic and heartbreaking.