I just got my car back from reso shop, the floors are done as is the firewall and inner fenders.
I need to finish the back end; roof, trunk floor, quarters and dutchman.
The car is currently sitting on its suspension.
For those that have done this before, where would you start...
I'd like to start with roof but the quarters go under roof so maybe I can't do that?
I was also thinking of doing one side/quarter at a time, and installing floor once I have a quarter removed.
Floors and rails are solid as are the tail panel and trunk lid gutters. If possible, I would like to leave tail panel and gutters attached but only because I lack confidence in the alignment of everything.
So I need some guidance:
-leave on suspension or jackstand on torque box locations.
-Start with roof or otherwise.
-Do one section at a time or rip it all apart and fit and clap the entire assembly back in place at once.
-Where and when should I apply any bracing if needed.
Sorry million questions! I want to hit the ground running, so far I started drilling out spot welds, have all AMD sheetmetal ready and waiting. thanks!!
I like keeping them as intact as I can. In your case I would replace the trunk floor first keeping everything else intact. Then one quarter and trunk extension (making sure your trunk lid and everything else fit correctly), then the other quarter and extension, then the dutchman then the roof skin. You can cut out the trunk floor with the quarters intact and slip the new one in from the back end underneath the tail panel.
You'll probably get 20 different opinions though.
From where I'm sitting I'm not sure why you are changing the quarters and dutchman. From the pics they look pretty decent. :dunno:
Quote from: dodj on February 14, 2022, 10:01:03 AM
From where I'm sitting I'm not sure why you are changing the quarters and dutchman. From the pics they look pretty decent. :dunno:
Looks pretty thin to me...
Quote from: RUNCHARGER on February 14, 2022, 09:13:40 AM
I like keeping them as intact as I can. In your case I would replace the trunk floor first keeping everything else intact. Then one quarter and trunk extension (making sure your trunk lid and everything else fit correctly), then the other quarter and extension, then the dutchman then the roof skin. You can cut out the trunk floor with the quarters intact and slip the new one in from the back end underneath the tail panel.
You'll probably get 20 different opinions though.
@RUNCHARGER (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/runcharger_192) Does the added ease of replacing the trunk pan without the tail panel in the way not justify removing/reinstalling the tail panel?
There are probably a number of different opinions on procedure to do this but I`ll give you my thoughts. First I would make sure you door/quarter gaps (leave you doors on) , take lot`s of measurements and /or make marks for window openings, locations, gaps etc. Next I would rough cut the quarters off - think billboard stripe outline - to facilitate getting the trunk pan in and welded. I would then finish cutting off the quarters, cut off the dutchman panel and roof skin and attach the new panels with clamps, clecos or self tapping screws getting all your openings and gaps where you want them using the doors, trunk lid and measurements you made. Once you are happy with fitment weld away.
I don't think you can slide the trunk pan in from the side with a quarter off unless you have the wheel house out too. With a quarter and the tail panel out it should go in ok. I had the whole rear frame section dropped out of mine when I did it, but I do distinctly remember trying to rough fit the trunk floor with everything in place but the quarter and that was a no go due to the wheel house which hangs down alongside the frame rail.
OK wasn`t sure about a full trunk on an E-body, when I did mine years ago I did a two piece as that was all that was avaialble aftermarket.
About a year ago I replaced the trunk pan in a 1970 Challenger. It was a full floor from Classic Industries. I did have the panel between the rear window and deck lid off the car, but I was able to maneuver the floor into place through the opening with the quarters still on the car. It did take me awhile to get the right angle to the dangle, but I did get it into place without the extra work of cutting it in half. Patience & Persistence being the key.
when i did mine i knew up front that i was going to replace the tail lite pnl so if you remove about 1 1/2 to 2 inches of the bottom of the tail lite pnl then you can leave everything else intact and slide in the new one piece trunk floor, nail it all down then remove the rest of the drop offs and replace them. Don't tag the drop offs to the quarters until you replace the quarters. After the trunk floor and drop offs are in then go after the Dutchman / Deck Filler pnl. then cut out the rest of the tail lite pnl and replace it. Then one at a time the quarters. probably should lock it down to a frame jig for the quarters but some say its not required. i did and it all went smoothly considering aftermarket sheet metal. This procedure keeps everything tied together and only replacing one piece at a time it keeps the alignment of parts intact. less to go wrong.. FWIW
Quote from: Filthy Filbert on February 14, 2022, 11:53:59 AM
Quote from: dodj on February 14, 2022, 10:01:03 AM
From where I'm sitting I'm not sure why you are changing the quarters and dutchman. From the pics they look pretty decent. :dunno:
Looks pretty thin to me...
I didn't notice that...
I'd drill out the rear body panel, remove it and then install the one piece trunk floor, checking the fit against the rear body panel. Once that was in, I'd cut both 1/4's off as well as the upper body panel and the roof as well. Keep the car on it's suspension, but don't be too shy about using some 3/4" angle iron for some diagonal bracing. As mentioned, take approximately 2,000 photos and measure (and record) all panel measurements that you can think of. Obviously I'm exaggerating, but not much. The trick is to support the car in it's natural fashion and then mount all your sheet metal and try to achieve your panel fits. You will amass a nice collection of vice-grips and a box of Clecos and thewir pliers won't come amiss either as you juggle, swear, bend, swear, trim, swear, readjust and swear a wee bit more on your journey to E body Elysium. LOL Good luck! :bigthumb:
Can't thank you guys enough :thankyou:
I'm absorbing the information appreciate you sharing your thoughts and knowledge.
How do I remove the spot welds on the inside corners, where the tail panel meets the quarter? its tight and a spot drill will not make it in there? I can post a picture later.
I like the idea of removing the tail panel and doing floor and re-install using quarters as guide.
I think I was hoping to keep tail panel and side gutters in place... The trunk pan has the 1/2" lip that attaches to tail panel. Could I hammer the lip flat shove it under tail panel, then bend it back up without entirely removing tail ? is that even worth the effort? that would allow me to leave the gutters attached to tail panel.
Since you're going to replace the 1/4s anyways, just cut yourself a window in the rear of the 1/4 to allow you access to drill out the rear body panel. My car is a Challenger, but I don't think the gutters are much different and there aren't all that many spot welds to drill out. If you don't already have one, a Blair rotary cutter is an effective tool for spot weld cutting. They have double-ended 3/8" bits and use a spring loaded centre pin. An easy way to guide them, is to drill a small 1/8" or less pilot hole in the centre of the spotwelds and that does away with most of the scittering you may otherwise encounter. Some of the guys are now using small rotary belt grinders as well, but they're tough on panels that you want to reuse. I wouldn't flatten the rear flange and hope to reestablish it once in. It'll be one of your biggest PITA moments in my opinion. Look at the job as a large, metallic jigsaw puzzle and you'll be well on your way to solving it! :cheers:
Part of the reason I mentioned rough cutting the quarters off is to gain easier access to the seams. Use an air hammer ( I like this type - https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=651935789000231&set=pcb.3126368347452560 ) , cutoff wheel, snips etc. to cut off the majority of the panel and around seams to make room for a drill with the Blair cutters jimmynick recommended.
Great thanks! I'll cut billboard type opening on both sides, cut spot welds and remove tail panel to start on trunk floor.
.... lots of pictures, lots of measurements, some braces check
I'll need to re-install gas tank braces on floor pan before mounting, maybe spare tire bracket ? don't have measurements but I can look at another cuda for positions.
I ordered the Blair 3/8 rotary cutter and extra bits from previous recommendation, using on slow speed working great and still sharp, using small counter sink drill bit to locate center first.
If you go slow, and watch the bit, when you see the teeth disappear you are through the first layer of metal. I like doing that to the panel i am not saving and therefor the piece i am saving dose not have a hole in it. :alan2cents:
:needphotos:Search cuda trunk floor replacement in the body section and there are pictures of the install without cutting the floor in half
I changed my trunk floor in my 70 Challenger without removing the tail panel, a one piece floor, it was pretty easy. Pictures in my resto thread.
Soundcontrol, :worship: ...fearless undertaking on the challenger, nice work.
Cleaning up old tank braces, can/should they get attached to truck floor before floor is installed ? Maybe I'm missing something. Seems easier now but could wait for it to go back on rotisserie.
I took measurement off my 71 it's 10" center to center does the work 70 to 74? Thanks
Quote from: Jocigar on February 20, 2022, 07:33:55 AM
Cleaning up old tank braces, can/should they get attached to truck floor before floor is installed ? Maybe I'm missing something. Seems easier now but could wait for it to go back on rotisserie.
I took measurement off my 71 it's 10" center to center does the work 70 to 74? Thanks
I welded my braces before putting in the trunkfloor, worked fine. I had 10" center also, 70 Challenger.
All, cleaned braces and mounted them to floor pan. last night I removed old floor pan flange from tail panel ( blair tool works great).
So, To insert new pan I will need to remove the bumper filler panel, or cut along frame rail as 68bee did which is a good idea. The question I have is will the quarters be enough to support tail panel? because once I remove the bumper filler panel there is no support/tie in from frame rails to tail panel or quarters. ass-end sheetmetal will be flouting.
lastly, Can anyone name the corner piece in pic, I can't find on AMD site. thx!
AMD 871-1570 L/R https://www.autometaldirect.com/amd-rear-crossmember-extension-lh-70-74-dodge-plymouth-e-body-p-5057.html
Thanks Alan, always very helpful :twothumbsup:
Don't put it in until you've got the 1/4's and trunk floor extensions in and where you want them, then just hold them against the rear crossmember, slide them out to contact the extension and there you go. Trying to put them in the old spots when changing the tin could cause a sudden outbreak of cussin'. Good luck :bigthumb:
Thank you!
I was also trying to find out if the rear sheet metal will support itself if I remove the rear cross member to insert the trunk pan?
I guess the quarters will hold the tail panel in place until I re-install the trunk pan and cross member.
Then I can move on to one side at a time for quarter/extension replacement.
"Then I can move on to one side at a time for quarter/extension replacement." Hmmm. The tin should hold itself up all right, but when I did mine, I cut everything out; both 1/4s, extensions, crossmember and complete trunk floor. If you pursue the one at a time thing, be particularly aware of the general fit of the deck and quarters. These cars were built in a slap-dash fashion and you may have gaps that don't please you. Proper fitting of the replacement panels allows you a chance to resolve some of that, so be aware when you're replacing one or the other, as to your fits and remember, measure 32 times and weld but once! :cheers:
I was able to remove the rear cross member and test fit the floor pan. Great to see that it can be done this way. I did some hammer and dolly work to better fit
I will be replacing outer wheel house but need to fab a patch piece for inner wheel well. Does anyone have a picture of this section to know what it's should look like where the two piece meet ?
Thx
:wrenching: Not a good picture but the inner wheel house section that you are missing is basically rounded flat piece with a flange. You might have to enlarge picture to see it better.
Thank you, I was trying to find out if the 5/8 lip that attaches wheelhouse to trunk extension just sandwiches where inner and outer meet or if there is some overlap.
Here is a closeup of mine before I changed the outer wheelhouse and trunkfloor. There is a slit in between there, and it's covered up with big chunks of seam sealer in original cars, a rust trap if you ask me. I welded mine shut, since I'm not restoring mine to original.
And there is an overlap of the lip, as seen in this pict, the inner wheelhouse lip overlaps a bit. Another pict of my passenger side, fixed the rust on the inner, skipped the overlap, will weld it shut later, still have to change the whole outer wheelhouse.
Perfect, Thank you !!
Back for more guidance.
I have patches made for wheel wells and trunk floor is also ready to install, but while evaluating the sheetmetal I notice that the speaker deck will need some patching once dutchman is removed and it sure would be easier to do the work without the trunk pan in place.
So question is; could I replace dutchman first and fit that to original quarters, then plug weld trunk pan, then move on to replacing the quarter in that order ? this would give me much more room to work in that area before the truck pan is in.
Also what do I do with the trunk lid support brackets ? do they come completely off, or leave lowers attached to wheel well and just bend out of the way.
Thank you ! good weekend project.
I'd just de-tension the deck lid torsion bars and trim off the upr body panel, or dutchman if you prefer. That way the hinges should remain positioned as req'd and will also serve as a guide when installing the upper panel. The KISS principle comes into the equation time to time and this may be one of those times. Otherwise, I'd do it pretty much the way you described. Remember! Measure 22 times and cut once and you'll be a much happier lad at the end of it all. You've got this! :cheers:
Can't you drill off the trunk hinge brackets from where they meet the deck filler panel ?
Yes Alan you are correct but down the road the seam between the Dutchman and the quarter panel is not accessible with spot weld remover because the hinge bracket sits in front of it, blocking access. I can cut Dutchman out and maybe get to the spot welds or billboard cut the old qtr and get to the seam from outside.
Trying to replace one piece at a time to maintain reference with other original panels, entire process is a puzzle requiring brain power and thinking ahead a few steps. ouch. :)
Jimynick. Thanks for the help and encouragement! I will cut a strip out of Dutchman to repair speaker deck then go from there. With trunk floor in all this would be a miserable undertaking.
I'll try to note measurements as much as possible.
Thx all
There is no need to move the trunk brackets out of position when replacing the dutchman panel. Best to leave them in the original position when RR. The side flanges (dutchman to quarter) are a bit of a pain to weld so having the truck out will help.
AND, don't forget to tape your sleeves shut and do up your coverall's top buttons, because it's a real SOB trying to flop around in the trunk until the hot coal that went up your sleeve or down your neck cools enough to stand it! LOL Guess how I know this? :cheers:
progress report, patches done over weekend.
I might use 3" cutoff wheel to remove the old dutchman to quarter flange rather than trying to drill out spot welds in tight space.
Need to figure out next step... install trunk floor/rear cross member, or replace dutchman, or start with a quarter.
Patches look great...how much do you charge per hour ? ;)
You might want to get rid of all that old paper laying around as you're welding and grinding....sparks and paper don't really get along...sparks tend to win :idea:
Yes, great looking repairs!
I think to start with the dutchman is best, but I'm not an expert.
I'm doing the quarters last.
Thanks the kind words! feels rewarding when they turn out well.
I did have a few small fires Alan, trying to protect original fk5 on speaker deck with paper :)
Late night but I removed old Dutchman and dry fitted the new one. Pass side is too wide by 1/8", drivers side looks good as does the overall length ~ 47".
Next question then: where should I make the cut to shrink the pass side panel width and how long should cut be ? Thx!
Are you keeping track of your hours ?
As per our previous discussions about how many hours things "SHOULD" take, it would be interesting to see how one guy with little experience in his home garage can do it, compared to a group of guys in a big fancy shop...It appears like you're making great progress. :twothumbsup:
It would be nice to go back and say "hey, did it myself and it only took 100 hours" ... :brainiac:
Alan, good idea should have done it earlier. I have a notebook just for my own curiosity now.
up-date, I spent an hour measuring and fitting and doing hammer and dolly work. I had to move the crease one side but still not good fit.
I will make a few slices on the lip in order to get the top curvature to match original quarter.
More importantly I need to make a 5" long cut on both sides, expand sheetmetal to fit gutter slots and weld them shut with some brass backing. There is just not enough metal in the stamping to get a good fit.
Curious if anyone else has run into this ? the stamping drifts mostly at the ends.
Hmmph, looks like the post I put on yesterday went into the ether. Don't get too carried away looking for the perfect fit here, because just because you get it to fit now, doesn't mean it'll fit the same with the new 1/4 panels. Based on what you're finding working with the new upper body panel, you can bet there'll be issues when you cut the old 1/4's off and mount the new ones. One other thing, you can take a 1/16th" slitter blade and using a scribed line off the old one, cut carefully and lay them right beside each other, which is easier than trying to make a tight metal sandwich, AND it'll do away with a favourite E body crevice for future rusting! In my other message I mentioned fitting hte gutter section as best as possible and slitting the upper edge where the panel drops down to make the rear glass ledge. If you're really good, you can cut about 1/16th over the top of the down edge and that'll give you something that'll hold on the upper edge and aid fitting. You can trim/grind it off later if it moves too much inward. This is kinda technical and I'm not sure my explanations will make sense to you. If not, PM me an email address or phone # and I'll call you and we can talk rather than type the ends off our fingers. Good luck! :cheers:
Thanks for the help! I agree, as after thought I should not go crazy fitting to original quarter. I do want to get best fit on gutters since they will remain original.
The fitment issues appear to be at gutter side, the upper edges looks good and line up with quarters window opening.
As you mentioned, I plan to use slitter to expand gutter channel on driver side and slitter to expand gutter channel drop on passenger side, then fill the gap with mig while panel is unattached so I can grind for seamless look.
Once Dutchman fit is good, having done as much as i can without trunk floor, maybe I should move on to spot welding floor in place so that the tail panel gets supported ? that would allow me to start removing one of the quarters for replacement along with extensions and outer wheel well. How does that sound? I will send PM, thanks for offering to talk me through it!
With the weekend approaching I am hoping to start on one of quarters by then.
Big thanks for the some on the members for taking the time to call me on this project, great community :thankyou:
I made some adjustments to the dutchman for fitment as discussed. added another small patch in speaker deck corner then fitted the trunk pan back in and rear cross member.... need more clamps !
Questions:
-do I plug weld the dutchman to speaker deck (see pic) from the outside windshield opening or attempt to do it from underneath?
-there are 3/8 holes in the speaker deck lips (see pic) are those clearance for trim clips? if so i will need to drill them out on my patch section before attaching dutchman.
-lastly, what order do you suggest in putting these parts back together; plug weld floor to rails first then attach rear crossmember, then plug weld trunk pan lip to tail panel ?
Should I screw dutchman in place for now so I can adjust to the quarters rather than welding it in place ?
I wouldn't weld ANYTHING in yet until you have the quarters fit, or you are almost guaranteed to be redoing some of that work to get everything to fit.
The speaker deck holes are indeed for the trim clips.
I welded my filler panel in from the window opening side. Welding upside down (and especially in that particular area) would absolutely suck. Avoid at all costs. You'll be able to make much better welds. Clean up with a belt file and/or 2" roloc disc. Done right, you won't even be able to tell where the welds were; not that it matters since it'll be covered by glass and trim. You really just need to make them reasonably flat and without pinholes.
Comin' along. lookin' good Joe! Save a little hair to pull out once you're into the 1/4's and remember the secret mantra, "if it doesn't fit, why doesn't it fit and what do I have to do to make it fit?" and you'll be ok. You'll also never look at this car the same way again. It'll be like meeting the Borg- you'll become one. LOL :cheers:
Thanks for the help, so I should not even weld trunk floor ?
I thought it would be good to attach trunk floor and crossmember so the tail panel is supported along with gutters.
Guess I will be using a lot of self tapping screws all around instead.
Yup... Screws and clecos. Be prepared to fight with the quarter to trunk extension and wheelhouse fit, and as already mentioned, don't expect your decklid filler to fit the same way with the new quarters either. It'll be a lot easier to get everything in place now than after it's welded in. Been there, done that.
You guys didn't tell me how much fun removing the outer wheelhouse would be :lookatthat:
On the front half its a three layer sandwich under the 1/4 window area. Should I use spot weld cutter from the inside or outside, or just drill thru all of it and use new wheelwell as backstop and plug weld back in from the inside... maybe that the best option.
Tricky area to fix, I did everything from the wheelhouse side, mine had rust and someone just welded a patch over the rust and undercoated it, removed all rusty layers, and repaired it and last thing I added the wheelhouse. I didn't exactly duplicate original spotwelds, I welded all edges plus necessary spotwelds.
"I didn't exactly duplicate original spotwelds, I welded all edges plus necessary spotwelds." LOL, that's because you're a smart man who's been there and done that, and it's a rite of passage for all who seek to follow in your footsteps! It's a large club! Nice repair by the way! :cheers:
I can't believe the amount of spot welds they put into wheel housing flanges. removing the old outer was miserable undertaking with spot welds both on inside and outside but got'er done.
the new one looks like it fits well, based on what i read there are always alignment issues with outer, guess it will come up when i try new quarter on.
Yep, it sure will. Don't weld-in the otr whlhse until you've fitted the 1/4 to it and all the other places the 1/4 has to fit, as well. Basically, fit the 1/4 to the upper body panel and deck lid and then go chase the wheelhouse fit, because there's only a certain amount of latitude with the 1/4 and there's more with the whlhse. Clecos and screws and vice-grips will be your pals here. :bigthumb:
Hi all, finished making patches and was able to first time fit the quarter which felt good and looks like progress even if its coming off a dozen more times.
I didn't spend a lot of time after putting quarter on but the last picture shows the gap between the wheelhouse and the quarter. Is this what people say they have trouble with, in fitting the two pieces together? at first glance it looks like i need to make another slit cut to expand the wheelhouse to meet the quarter at wheel opening?
Also, Body line looks good but I don't have any weights on door :dunno:
Thanks !
I'd try a couple of small (1/8-3/16") pie shape cuts in that flange of the outer wheelhouse, beside the vicegrips and see if you can roll the panel enough to allow more vicegrips to pull the wheelhouse lip closer to the 1/4 lip. Good job patterning on the end of the rocker, that's the way to go. You'll be a third year apprentice pretty soon! As for the door-1/4 fit, without weight in the door, look at your gap at the bottom door/quarter edge and if it's good the way it is, then just figure on lifting the door enough to come back down to where it is when the weight is on it. You can adjust the door, but you can't adjust the rocker nor 1/4 at that time. Believe it or not, you should be seeing some light at the end of the rust tunnel! Looks pretty good so far! :bigthumb:
Nice job! Makes me wanna go back to mine and do the passenger side, haven't touched it in 2 years now.
Thanks for help Jimynick :worship:
The outer edge at back is worse area. I need to fit quarter better (dutchman gap) but I think I will need to slice and extended wheelhouse lip area by 1/2" to meet qtr lip.
I looked at bottom door gap and it is even throughout. however, the gap is large at 7/16 (11mm)... not sure if that is normal.
Before removing original qtr I made sure body lines matched and door edge gap was even. I didn't account for door glass weight, that gets adjusted I guess as you mentioned.
General question: Did wheel tubs have undercoating from factory ? also the center seam of outer and inner gets sealer, did they seal entire wide flanged area or just at bevel edge where they meet ?
You need to pull those quarters in. I know its a complete pain but in the end it's all worth it.
Think of it like a giant jigsaw puzzle with very finite pieces that need to go together. :ohyeah:
Most times folks like to set the dutchman first if they know it's solid. Meaning they will weld in cross members if they know the dutchman is correct before removing. This will ensure that you have a known good point to start from. Otherwise it's a huge amount of massaging to do.
Looking good though, keep up the great work!!!
:banana:
My bottom door gap is equal to yours, and there is no way to adjust my door to make it smaller, body line would be off. I looked at some other Challengers and it's wide on every car I've seen. Only way I see to make it smaller is to add metal to the door, but I'm not gonna do that.
"Only way I see to make it smaller is to add metal to the door, but I'm not gonna do that." LOL! That's what I said initially, too! You could shove your fingers under the door between it and the rocker. Eventually I got sick of the lousy oem fit and welded a 3/16" rod to the bottom edge and filled/ground it to shape. If you take your time andd watch your heat, it's not a horrible job, but it IS a PITA that it needs to be done. When you see a show quality Ebody with 3/16ths gaps, take off your hat to the welder who made it happen! Joe, you may need to get ahold of a couple of pieces of say, 3/4" steel in about an 1/8th thickness and use them as clamps against the flanges of the 1/4 and upr body panel to pull them together without simply warping the flanges. A small mig spot or two between them can hold enough to allow you to wrestle with obtaining a fit and if required they can be easily slit with an angle grinder. I'd go for pulling the upr pnl and two 1/4's together in the best fit you can obtain and then screw, Cleco, spot weld them to hold, while you tackle those SOB's the inner/outer whlhses. If it's ANY consolation, your 1/4 to whlhse fit looks like mine did and it'll likely never be perfect, but you can bludgeon them into submission- usually. The upr panel/1/4 seams are the usual place where these cars developed a leak, which piddles into the trunk area and rots with abandon, and while you can spot weld and seam seal them, I said FI! and brazed them full and covered them over. The chalk mark boys will have a conniption, but who cares! No more leaky seams, yea! Roll on laddie! :bigthumb:
Thanks guys, this car had rocker gills so maybe the lower gap will not be so pronounced once they are installed.
I'm wrestling the quarter trying to close the dutchman gap, at the same time i don't want to dent the panel with open calm hits or bear hugs. I do have duck-bill visegrips on dutchman to qtr flange. I bought two more wide mouth clamps the other day thinking that would be enough :rofl: I'm thinking about welding an open-hole tab on QTR windshield lip so i can pull qtr with ratchet and strap secured to opposite side.
I'm still on first install of quarter, I know it has to come off for some hammer dolly work on edges for starters. I'll report back :fingerscrossed:
:) Myself, I believe in the "Three P's" ! Patience, Persistence & Perseverance. Most definitely a winning recipe.
Quote from: johnr on April 16, 2022, 06:03:56 AM
:) Myself, I believe in the "Three P's" ! Patience, Persistence & Perseverance. Most definitely a winning recipe.
What about "ahh..piss on it" ? :haha:
Quote from: johnr on April 16, 2022, 06:03:56 AM
:) Myself, I believe in the "Three P's" ! Patience, Persistence & Perseverance. Most definitely a winning recipe.
Make that the "Four P's" you forgot the most important one- PESOS! LOL :cheers:
As an update, the quarter has been off about six times now :bricks:
I had to cut-bend-weld near gutter to follow trunk lid curve and close the gap. Also had to re-bend the entire lower lip at rocker, it was off by 1/2".
I still have a gap at dutchman that i cant pull closed by hand or vise, that is most frustrating.
I came up with a ratchet strap method but I am afraid to put too much pressure on it and crease upper edge of quarter. it did work on pulling and closing gap with moderate pressure, maybe a wider strap would do better to spread out the pressure.
2-3 hours every other night as can be afforded= patience, persistence, faith AND the urge to piss on it and forget it :whiteflag: for some reason I keep going back...
Photo #1 makes me wonder if part of your problem isn't the upr bdy pnl rather than the 1/4. What it looks like, as per photos, is that the strain to pull the two together, is unrolling the sharp edges of the panels. If you can find a piece of sharp, straight, 3-4" clean edged steel of say 1/2" thickness, you could try to hammer form their edges sharper and more vertical which would help in pulling them together in a closed fashion. As per also your pics, the bottom of the flanges seem to be tight, it's just when they extend upward that they diverge. Is that correct? A wide cold chisel can also be a friend when trying to re-define a sharp edge, but be gentle with it's application. Overlapping, gentle applications of Brer Chisel will make your life easier when it comes to dressing out any wayward marks. You're getting there, don't give up! You're going to win! :bigthumb:
I measured the dutchman and its the same length as original but I will try and sharpen the edges.
If I want to make sure the height of truck lid matches the dutchman and quarter, do I just lay the truck lid down or would the gasket make a height difference, or can lid height be adjusted ? I'm going to have to dig out the old trunk gasket if I can find it.
also, I wonder it anyone lightly heats the entire qtr panel when mounted to de-stress the metal. Maybe I'm getting too scientific with that.
thanks
All,
I removed and replaced rocker using sheetmetal screws for now.
After install I noticed that the rocker lip leaves the bottom door edge starting at center point of door.
The issue is that the AMD rocker is 1/4" short at the front lip, and that line carries half way though the door opening.
With all that work done, it looks like I have to cut and slice a 20" long strip on the door lip of the new rocker anyway, expand it to 1" wide at front, and then weld up the gap. :pullinghair:
Any suggestions? I replaced original so as not to be Half*** by cutting and grafting in new sections on original rocker, and now it looks like I will be cutting a welding anyway.
Mike, you're chasing the door/rocker in and out fit at the front of the rocker, right? You won't get all of it from one source, so it's likely you'll need to take a sledge and a block of wood and "walk" the inner rocker flange outwards. As long as it isn't getting too extreme, that's the way I'd begin. That way you can blow out the front end while not taking the whole rocker with it. I'd only cut the rocker as a last resort and I'd see if I could get a wee bit by moving the door in as well. You've had the hinge pillars loose and it's only take an 1/8" at the bottom to throw things off. Remember the mantra " if it doesn't fit, why doesn't it fit and what do I need to do to make it fit" and you'll make progress. Rome wasn't built in a day and nor shall be your car. Look at the glass as half full! :drinkingbud:
Just looking at what you are going through to replace your panels got me thinking when i go to start on mine id better wait until all my hair is grey that way no one will notice i aged 10 years in the few months it takes to get er done :haha: at any rate i am paying attention and taking notes you seem to be making excellent progress in a short time :twothumbsup:
Have you made any progress on the rocker?
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thanks for asking, I have not been able to put in as much time as I would like but did play with rocker.
I am convinced there is no quality control in the least at amd, no go-no-go gauges, no measurement verification, no visual inspection.
Made adjustments (hammer and dolly) to front of rocker, both bottom and top were off.
Replacing outer wheel well is next in line.
So padawan, I see you have learned the mantra, well! good job Joe! :twothumbsup:
Always remember the base from which you start from affects all downstream pieces.
Quote from: HP_Cuda on July 28, 2022, 09:11:05 AM
Always remember the base from which you start from affects all downstream pieces.
Yep and that 1/16th gap? 6 gaps later it's 3/8ths. Good advice and I do believe the man is getting it now. :bigthumb:
I am impressed. Patience& Perseverance is worth it's weight in gold.
Any updates on this project Jo ?
Hey guys thanks for the encouragement!
Kids came home from college, workers decided to take 5 week vacation, and we got a heatwave where it was 80f even at midnight. So I tapped out mid July :Thud: and decided I will start up again in September.
I managed to get all the panels on which felt good seeing complete car, but then it all had to come back off :bricks: for sanding inside e-coating, and drilling 1 thousand 5/16" holes in prep for plug welding.
Hope to regain some traction after labor day :cheers:
Looking good Joe, looking good! I guess it's a wee bit late to mention hand punches, eh? Sorry; it may have reduced the number of holes to be drilled to 500 or so. Best stock up on MIG wire too! Cooler temps and cooler workers and beer will make the difference, I'm sure. :bigthumb:
Good work!
I stopped drilling or punching holes for spotwelding, now I just drill a bit, almost thru the first panel, I find it way it's easier to
get a good spot weld and and can use welding primer under without cleaning in the hole first. Dosen't work in all places though.
I'm trying to get back into this project after covid-round 2 and shingles recovery :Thud:
Any input/suggestions on addressing these areas appreciated. (see arrows)
-Gap at trunk lid to dutchman a little large at center but closes near edges.
In order to get hood gaps correct, I had to adjust fenders in and out, and then lost my gaps on fender to door.
- Driver side top of fender touching door. (will need to cut and bend lip i'm guessing)
- Passenger side, gap too large (i guess this will need 1/16" rod filler) weld rod to door not fender ?
-fenders near center body line do not follow door profile (pinches in)
Door to qtr gaps look good to me, so its only door to fender adjustments.
Thanks!
Quote from: Jocigar on December 15, 2022, 10:58:45 AM
I'm trying to get back into this project after covid-round 2 and shingles recovery :Thud:
Any input/suggestions on addressing these areas appreciated. (see arrows)
-Gap at trunk lid to dutchman a little large at center but closes near edges.
In order to get hood gaps correct, I had to adjust fenders in and out, and then lost my gaps on fender to door.
- Driver side top of fender touching door. (will need to cut and bend lip i'm guessing)
- Passenger side, gap too large (i guess this will need 1/16" rod filler) weld rod to door not fender ?
-fenders near center body line do not follow door profile (pinches in)
Door to qtr gaps look good to me, so its only door to fender adjustments.
Thanks!
Make sure the hood is on the car and aligned. You can't start to get everything aligned without all of the pieces together. Also, make sure you have the door latches on so the post will locate the back of the door. All these things create changes. Don't cut or weld anything until you are aligned.
I'd also add that you need to install the hood, door, and trunk bumpers, strikers, and latches along with the door weatherstripping too. Add weight to the doors as well. If you don't account for the bumper heights you may be spending a lot of time adjusting after paint, or even worse, reworking those panels to line up correctly.
All good advice, to which I'd say that the lft door/hood gap may respond to a block of wood on the upper door edge and a 4lb hammer to the wood. Take it easy, but I'll bet you gain some. As for the right side, the pic seems to show the fender edge as being slightly bulged and pushed back. This usually happens when you pry too hard against it. Something to remember on these cars, they never fit worth a damn originally and those perfect 3/16ths cars? 100's of hours prying, welding, grinding to achieve. My car, from the factory, had a gap that I could slide my fingers under at the drivers door/rocker intersection and a measured 3/4" vertical misalignment at the trunk floor/rt trk flr extension. Unless you're going to show the car, get it a good as possible and ask the idiot who may point out the non-perfection where his, perfect car is and then compare the cost of his ride to yours and then get a warm fuzzy feeling knowing that nobody will ever see anything when you're at 30, let alone 60 mph. :cheers:
Checking back, I've got few days in alignment time. I have the alignment and gaps best they can be without cutting and welding them as needed after panels are permanently attached. So before I go any deeper into fixing gaps I still need to take quarters off one more time, to weld in trunk pan, extensions and wheel wells.
The door, fender and trunk lid gaps still need fine adjustment via hammer, cutting and welding, but at this point I think I am as good as I can tweak them with just panel alignment. Would you agree that i can take ass end apart and start welding my way out?
Also need to coat trunk in epoxy primer before quarters go back on. When I epoxy do I need to worry about flash time? I will not be painting the truck area for weeks after primer.
I epoxy the inside of quarters before remounting them, but paint them on inside after mounting.. yes?
If I use DP74 (red) epoxy that would be better for FK5 finish? How does that work on outside ? epoxy, filler, primer filler, epoxy, base coat? If I don't end up in epoxy before base there is no use in getting red to match base, correct?
What else do I need to do before remounting quarters? Maybe seam sealer ? have no idea where, this would be after primer or before? Once quarters are on there is no going back so nerve wrecking first time around.
Thanks for all the help!